Time for Rafa to call it a day?

[Alexikokopops]

Never been a fan. Get rid.

Always been a fan. But without Torress and gerrard, they have nothing at all to offer and thats just shocking for a club like liverpool.

I dont think they can get rid though? will cost them 13m to sack him i was told...

But he should have the decency to resign...

He can't buy a player, he can't develop a player. You look at the sheer volume of money he's spent and the team still falls to pieces if Gerrard or Torres gets injured. I can't help but feel if Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson had bought Babel, for example, then he'd the tits by now instead of some embarrassingly inconsistent Bambi on ice. In all the years Benitez has been at Liverpool they've only looked vaguely like challenging for the title once (last season), and even then everyone knew they wouldn't sustain. Everyone, that is, except for the Liverpool board who threw a five year contract his way and are now stuck with him unless they want to waste even more money.

Benitez has lived off the glory of winning the Champions League in 2005. It even glossed over the fact that in that very season they finished fifth and had to run crying to UEFA to get in the Champions League again. If the Liverpool board seriously had any ambitions of challenging for a Premier League title they would have got rid a long time ago. I mean, come on, Antonio fucking Núñez?

Sorry, but I've really never rated Benitez, haha

[Simi]

He has got to go in my opinion.

If Liverpool do drop out of the top four, I reckon it is going to be really hard to get back in. Especially if Man City are the team to break the mould. Man City will be able to attract lots more players with Champions League football, as if they didn't have enough going for them already!

Without Champions League football, what will Liverpool have to offer apart from the fact they have a decent history and good fans? There's a lot of unrest in the boardroom and they are playing in the Europa League! With Gerrard not getting any younger as well I think this is a crucial season for Liverpool and if they don't finish in the top four, it will be a tough couple of years for them.

[Fez of Mahrez]

Always been a fan. But without Torress and gerrard, they have nothing at all to offer and thats just shocking for a club like liverpool.

I dont think they can get rid though? will cost them 13m to sack him i was told...

But he should have the decency to resign...

He can't buy a player, he can't develop a player. You look at the sheer volume of money he's spent and the team still falls to pieces if Gerrard or Torres gets injured. I can't help but feel if Arsene Wenger or Alex Ferguson had bought Babel, for example, then he'd the tits by now instead of some embarrassingly inconsistent Bambi on ice. In all the years Benitez has been at Liverpool they've only looked vaguely like challenging for the title once (last season), and even then everyone knew they wouldn't sustain. Everyone, that is, except for the Liverpool board who threw a five year contract his way and are now stuck with him unless they want to waste even more money.

Benitez has lived off the glory of winning the Champions League in 2005. It even glossed over the fact that in that very season they finished fifth and had to run crying to UEFA to get in the Champions League again. If the Liverpool board seriously had any ambitions of challenging for a Premier League title they would have got rid a long time ago. I mean, come on, Antonio fucking Núñez?

Sorry, but I've really never rated Benitez, haha

Benitez's most incredible achievement is taking a team that includes Fernando Torres and making them boring to watch.

I'm going to find that thread where I argued that Liverpool were most likely to drop out of the top four before the season started, and that people were underrating Arsenal.

[Vacamion]

Erm,

- They are high up in the Prem and could still make the top 4

- They are still current favourites for the Europa League (7-1 with Ladbrokes)

- They have Torres, when he's not broken

- They play in front of a packed house of mostly loyal, non-booing fans every other week

- OK, they're not in the Champs League this year, but they have been knocking on the door of winning it again in the years since they won it

Things aint so bad.

Much as I have no real love for the Scousers, Rafa IN !!!!!

[Jimothy]

Thing is Liverpool aren't really just Gerrard and Torres. Kuyt, Johnson, Aurelio, Mascherano, Benayoun, Riera, Skrtel and Agger are all decent, useful players in their own right. Problem is that Rafa plays a system so geared towards the strengths of Gerrard and Torres that if one of them is off song or injured, they are screwed. Losing a player of the quality of those two will hamper any team, but not to the degree it does Liverpool.

I honestly think if they played, when everyone is fit obviously

Reina

Johnson Carragher Agger/Sktel Aurelio

Benayoun Gerrard Mascherano Riera/Rodriguez

Kuyt Torres

Rather than

Riena

Johnson Carragher Agger/Skrtel Aurelio

Lucas Mascherano

Kuyt Benayoun

Gerrard

Torres

They would be ten times better.

He has to go. He's been there 5 and a half years. This is all his own creation. He's spent vast amounts as most of you have said, and has never had to off load anyone that he hasn't wanted to. He's bought some extremely average players, like Lucas, Babel, Ngog, Dossena, Degen. And randomly sold some important players, like Garcia. But it's not about the player, Man Utd have some average players, it's about the system. If Rafa is going to stay he needs to go back to basics and scrap that stupid formation with Gerrard off Torres.

[Anish]

Erm,

- They are high up in the Prem and could still make the top 4

- They are still current favourites for the Europa League (7-1 with Ladbrokes)

- They have Torres, when he's not broken

- They play in front of a packed house of mostly loyal, non-booing fans every other week

- OK, they're not in the Champs League this year, but they have been knocking on the door of winning it again in the years since they won it

Things aint so bad.

Much as I have no real love for the Scousers, Rafa IN !!!!!

Really, was that meant to be a convincing argument?

1. Spurs and Villa are higher than Liverpool and have a bigger and stronger squad, plus Man City look like they'll get their wallets out and splash the cash this months and Liverpool are already playing catch up. Liverpool's two best players are now out for the next few weeks and arguably their third best player this season is also injured. Look at their reserve players - they are lower Premier League standard!

2. They are only favourites because they are arguably the biggest club in the competition. If it was down to form they wouldn't be favourites.

3. Invalid point - Torres is out for 6 weeks so he can't help them pick up three points until he returns.

4. So just because Rafa has won it once and got to another final 3 years ago that means we can overlook everything that has happened this season?

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

I mean, come on, Antonio fucking Núñez?

I've got one word for you.

Josemi.

[ramboacdc]

got to go but they cant afford to sack him since its 25m to sack him and they dont have the money since they put themselves in debt to buy the club, therefore destroying it from the inside.

you wanna see liverpool win something again? get the board out first then take out rafa, but they got to get a manager as good as he was once now, houlier was never upto it and no one in my life time has really been upto it that i can remember (born 1989 so no memories before 1992/93)

[Uncle Albert]

As a fan then, what would you do? Stick with Rafa or bring someone else in and who would you like?

I would keep him till the end of the season and then see whats happening because getting rid of him now wont solve anything, will just cause more turmoil I think. Hopefully in the summer there is a big re-investment at Anfield and at least one of the idiots out of G & H do leave the club.

If someone did have to come in then hopefully a big manager would want to come to Anfield like Hiddink or Mourinho but I think Rafa will turn it round.

These three injuries could not of come at a worse time this season, Gerrard wont be fit for the Spurs game but should make it back just in time for Arsenal away. Looks like it is time for Ryan Babel to show his worth now <_<

[lou]

I would keep him till the end of the season and then see whats happening because getting rid of him now wont solve anything, will just cause more turmoil I think. Hopefully in the summer there is a big re-investment at Anfield and at least one of the idiots out of G & H do leave the club.

If someone did have to come in then hopefully a big manager would want to come to Anfield like Hiddink or Mourinho but I think Rafa will turn it round.

These three injuries could not of come at a worse time this season, Gerrard wont be fit for the Spurs game but should make it back just in time for Arsenal away. Looks like it is time for Ryan Babel to show his worth now <_<

I think this is key. Its the wrong time to be changing managers. Just hope they can hang onto their best players for next season. Cant see Gerrard ever leaving but some of the others may not want to hang around another season?

[dandannieldanok]

All the arguments against him made in here are completely true, but who do you get to replace him that's is; 1) available 2) would actually want the job

There is simply no-one of higher calibre available. The only top quality candidate that I personally think would even consider the job is Jose Mourinho, because he's never once looked happy at Inter and he likes English football. However does he really want to walk into a job where the owners are fighting with each other, where there are no guarantees over money available, where the squad is utterly mediocre bar two players, and where there's potentially no Champions League football.

[Nick]

Just wondering what people's opinions are on this subject, the fans are still backing him and most other fans around the country would of been wanting him sacked.

Thoughts?

I think he should go for the sake of the club. Liverpool though do not have a reputation for sacking their managers. Look at Man City - Hughes was doing "all right" ....... then look at Roberto impact.... all the players are back playing for their jobs again instead of performing like half-hearted pre-maddonnas .......

[CosbehFox]

I've got one word for you.

Josemi.

Some beauties...Mark Gonzalez?

Babel for one is not average, he's a player with excellent potential whose confidence has been shattered at Liverpool. At a fair few clubs, he'd be a player and half. Agger's another whose got dragged down by him.

Then there's the likes of Warnock who couldn't get a game at Liverpool but looks by far anything better than Liverpool have had at left back over the past few year recently.

Look at the success of Keane and Crouch as well. Didn't he finish Heskey off as well there?

[leicesterfox86]

Just wondering what people's opinions are on this subject, the fans are still backing him and most other fans around the country would of been wanting him sacked.

Thoughts?

I think they should wait until the summer to be honest. Not sure what there is to gain from doing it now.

[Jimothy]

Rafa has said sorry to the fans. Thats nice of him.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/t...ool/8461711.stm

[Alexikokopops]

I think he should go for the sake of the club. Liverpool though do not have a reputation for sacking their managers. Look at Man City - Hughes was doing "all right" ....... then look at Roberto impact.... all the players are back playing for their jobs again instead of performing like half-hearted pre-maddonnas .......

Or even prima donnas.....

[Guest Bilo]

I think they should wait until the summer to be honest. Not sure what there is to gain from doing it now.

The problem is that they could miss out on the Champions League as well. I don't envy the Liverpool board right now, sack Rafa and incur the huge compensation liability or blunder on and miss out on what's worth untold millions to the club. It's a tough one, they could keep Rafa and qualify for the CL; meaning he would earn a stay of execution, or sack him and still miss out, the latter of the two being the worst possible outcome for Liverpool financially.

[Samilktray]

Get Mark Hughes in

[lildave3]

How he's survived this long baffles me tbh.

The Sun gave him a right pasting today

[Heart-Shaped Fox]

I cant believe he is till there tbh. He was lucky last season that they came 2nd and has always lived off the CL final in 2005.

I'm loving Liverpool's decline though.

[Alexikokopops]

"This afternoon Rafael Benítez read a pre-prepared statement to the media. As he nervously unfolded his piece of paper, the watching hacks awaited a momentous announcement, something serious enough to require advance planning and therefore likely to include one or, indeed, both of the phrases "I resign" and "the facts". Sweating mildly, the words started tumbling out of Benítez's mouth: "Before we start, some facts," he said.

Facts! Facts, already, and we haven't even started yet! "The fact is we are not playing well and everyone here feels sorry for our fans." And he proceeded to announce detailed plans to make them feel better. So, quiz fans, which of the following methods does Rafa plan to use to cheer up Liverpool's fanbase?

a) Giving every one of them free cake, a paper hat and 100 Tesco Clubcard points after each home defeat for the remainder of the season.

b) Committing the entire first-team squad and the coaching staff to donating 50% of their wages to supporters' groups until either they win the league, or the supporters' groups are wealthy enough to buy the club, sack the lot of them and employ someone better instead, whichever is sooner.

c) Publishing highlights of Manchester United's annual accounts on advertising hoardings across Merseyside.

d) Producing a few frankly meaningless soundbites about how, even though the team is rubbish, has been rubbish for months and has shown no recent evidence of imminent non-rubbishness, Liverpool are suddenly about to not be rubbish any more.

Go on, our puzzle-loving chums, which one was it? Well? OK, we'll tell you. Unbelievably, it was b! Not really, it was d.

"We know we have to improve and we have the belief we can do it," he mumbled. "How can we improve? Winning on the pitch. How can we be sure we win on the pitch? By training well," he stammered. "Everyone has to take responsibility, starting with us," he stuttered. "It is true I like to do my best every time," he grumbled. "Stoke is the most important game now and we have to prepare properly, I cannot be worried about the other things," he burbled.

And so, for the Liverpool fans, there remains no good news. Their team is still rubbish. Their good players are still injured. Their manager still talks nonsense. Ryan Babel has been reduced to tweeting: "Hey people, I got some disappointing news, I m not travelling 2 Stoke.. The Boss left me out the squad. No explanation.." And they still don't have any cake."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2010/jan/15/1

[maddog]

Yes.

Liverpool are fast turning into an average Premier League side, they only really have 3 players capable of gracing a title winners side, Gerrard, Torres and Reina.

And when one or both of thier 2 outfield talismans are out injured, they basically have nothing.

They don't have the grit and determination to grind out results Stoke-esque, and they don't have the flair and class to dominate games with world beating football, Barca-esque.

Even Carragher looks past it now.

And when you consider this:

Fernando Torres

Robbie Keane

Ryan Babel

Xabi Alonso

Dirk Kuyt

Albert Riera

Andrea Dossena

Peter Crouch

Lucas Leiva

Jermaine Pennant

Martin Skrtel

Craig Bellamy

Luis Garcia

Jose Reina

Dan Agger

Mohammed Sissoko

Fernando Morientes

Yossi Benayoun

Diego Cavalieri

Alvaro Arbeloa

Sebastian Leto

Jose Miguel Gonzalez

Gabriel Paletta

Mark Gonzalez

David Ngog

Scott Carson

Mikel San Jose

David Martin

Antonio Barragan

Besian Idrizaj

Jack Hobbs

Alex Cooper

Alexander Kacaniklic

Krisztian Nemeth

Andras Simon

Victor Palsson

Gary Mackay Steven

Vitor Flora

Andriy Voronin

Nikolay Mihaylov

Emmanuel Mendy

Marvin Pourie

Dani Pacheco

Nikola Saric

Lauri Dalla Valle

Gerardo Bruna

Hakan Duyan

Damien Plessis

Peter Gulacsi

Charles Itandje

Philipp Degen

Vincent Lucas

Ryan Crowther

Mihail Alexandrov

Robbie Fowler

Ryan Wilkie

Javier Mascherano

Miki Roque

Nabir El Zhar

Mark Smyth

Jay Smith

Stephen Darby

Craig Lindfield

Adam Hammill

Danny Guthrie

Paul Anderson

Lee Peltier

Fabio Aurelio

Jan Kromkamp

Boudewijn Zenden

Mauricio Pellegrino

Godwin Antwi

Robbie Threlfall

Ryan Flynn

Calum Woods

Paul Willis

Danny O'Donnell

Ramon Calliste

Steve Irwin

Martin Kelly

Ronald Huth

Jordy Brouwer

Francisco Manuel Duran

Emiliano Insua

Ray Putterill

Martin Hansen

Jay Spearing

Dave Roberts

David Mannix

Antonio Nunez

A fooking HUGE list of players signed, mostly faliures, some for big money, it's actually ridiculous how poor he has done. And that list is a year old, he's bought Acwillneverplay since then.

It's like Sam Allardyce said if his name was Sam Allarcini he would have been praised massively more for his managerial achievements.

If Rafa Benitez was called Richard Bennett, he would have been sacked long long ago.

[Jimothy]

Love that letter in the same Guardian column

"To every Liverpool fan I grew up with, even though I grew up in the East ruddy Midlands; to every Liverpool fan I met at university, even though you'd just come from Lowestoft, or somesuch place; to every Liverpool fan commuting in from some hole like Hatfield to your job in London: this is what it's like to support a team. Rubbish players, rubbish manager, stupid board, no cups. It's not novel, it's not interesting, the rest of us know all about it. Get over it or, alternatively, find out who's winning everything, and go and support them. That's how you chose your current team in 1980 after all, isn't it?" - Jon Millard.

[SystonFox]

Alberto Aqualini, quality player, never worth 20 million though.

i dont believe they have paid 20£million ?!? i understand it was £5million up front and the rest in installments depending on appearances/trophies/international honours all of which could lead up to £20million. i may be wrong and this may have been covered in this topic already.

i think Rafa should go as things just arent working, they need somebody with fresh ideas who can get the best out of the players they already have. Babel, Lucas, Aurelio, Insua, Ngog and many more at LFC have massive talent they just can't get a look in whilst Torres / Gerrard are available and when they aren't there seems to be massive pressure on these young players to perform like Torres and Gerrard when they aren't capable just yet.

[Fox92]

Yeah and every team has a first XI full of local lads...

Carragher was a childhood Everton fan as a child as well.

I know every side hasn't got local lads which is not very good and also could be a major factor.

I was saying that the players, apart from Gerrard, Carragher and maybe some of the younger players, perhaps don't realize just what it means to them where as it does to the real scouse players. They should all be from around the Liverpool area.

And, I know Carragher was an Everton fan, in fact I think Robbie Fowler was as well, but he is now a Liverpool fan and that was beside the point anyway.