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Game of Thrones - hide spoilers please.

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The TV series does seem very exploitive. Why did Renly suddenly become gay (I had to go back and check the book and there's no hint of it.) Not only that, but he's clearly the submissive, not only in his relationship with the Knight of Flowers (He's a Tyrell, but can't remember his name), but also in his place on the council - when in the book he's quite a dominant person. No problem with there being gay characters in there, I just see that changing a persons sexuality for the TV series as being sensationalist. (Interestingly, though you see lots of lady bits through the series, there's only one scene with men bits.)

The fact that George Martin is heavily involved with the series saddens me, because if I'd written a book that was being made into a film/TV series, I'd want to keep it fairly true to the book, at the very least in characterisation. Is he selling out, or is this what he'd always intended? The shame is that this is a story that is interesting because of it's good characters and the intirguing politics that could be watched and enjoyed by anyone, but the soft porn and the graphic violence mean I can't really recommend it to anyone on the chance of them being shocked and offended.

There are some allusions to it in the book... but it is never clearly stated. Like Dumbledore! The fact his wife was a virgin etc...

And Boardwalk was amazing too... really people sex and nudity is a real part of life... get over it!

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There are some allusions to it in the book... but it is never clearly stated. Like Dumbledore! The fact his wife was a virgin etc...

And Boardwalk was amazing too... really people sex and nudity is a real part of life... get over it!

So is ugliness, disease, depravity, paedophilia, incest, gangsta rap ... it doesn't mean that I have to watch it as a form of entertainment or tell others to do the same.

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So is ugliness, disease, depravity, paedophilia, incest, gangsta rap ... it doesn't mean that I have to watch it as a form of entertainment or tell others to do the same.

Christ, that doesn't leave much to watch!

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The TV series does seem very exploitive. Why did Renly suddenly become gay (I had to go back and check the book and there's no hint of it.) Not only that, but he's clearly the submissive, not only in his relationship with the Knight of Flowers (He's a Tyrell, but can't remember his name), but also in his place on the council - when in the book he's quite a dominant person. No problem with there being gay characters in there, I just see that changing a persons sexuality for the TV series as being sensationalist. (Interestingly, though you see lots of lady bits through the series, there's only one scene with men bits.)

The fact that George Martin is heavily involved with the series saddens me, because if I'd written a book that was being made into a film/TV series, I'd want to keep it fairly true to the book, at the very least in characterisation. Is he selling out, or is this what he'd always intended? The shame is that this is a story that is interesting because of it's good characters and the intirguing politics that could be watched and enjoyed by anyone, but the soft porn and the graphic violence mean I can't really recommend it to anyone on the chance of them being shocked and offended.

Maybe the fact George Martin is heavily involved is exactly why Renly is gay in the TV series- developing something in hindsight that he's decided on after the release of the book.

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Maybe the fact George Martin is heavily involved is exactly why Renly is gay in the TV series- developing something in hindsight that he's decided on after the release of the book.

I think he is changing things to make the TV series more favourable to the general public.

It'll be interesting to see if Renly is perceived as a "good" or "bad" man in later books.

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I think he is changing things to make the TV series more favourable to the general public.

It'll be interesting to see if Renly is perceived as a "good" or "bad" man in later books.

Good point. As well as being gay, he seems corrupt and self-obsessed - which other than his declaring himself king (after largely disappearing from the story) didn't come across in the book.

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It definitely hints and all but tells us Renly and Loras are gay in the books. For one, 'The Rainbow Guard'? Come on!

Here's a list of a load of references to them:

http://www.angelfire.com/ma4/mlarchives/faq/lorasrenly.html#

Firstly, I'm not a huge fan of the tv series', I enjoy it but I definitely prefer the books. With regards to not staying loyal to the books there are several reasons to why I think numerous things are changed:

1) In my opinion it would be very difficult to fit all the important content from the books into a 10 episode series. For this reason they either have to change events, combine events or be much more explicit in the delivery which is often subtle and/or lengthy in the books.

2) Keeping it interesting. There is a lot of political talk, family talk, tactical talk, planning and verbal jousting in the books. Although engrossing I doubt this would come off well on screen so it has to be dramatised or put on screen in different forms.

3) Budget. Huge battle scenes are very expensive. Added to this is the fact that there aren't many instances in the books where the POV character is directly involved in the battle at that time. (Eg. Whispering Wood).

It does bug me when they change things unnecessarily or kill off characters that have built up a personality to me in the books. The fact that the Reeds won't be in it and that Reek seems to have been cut are also annoying. Similarly the way Ygritte has escaped Jon Snow and got him captured despite him freeing her in the book and bonding with Qhorin. But there have similarly been good changes IMO such as Tywin Lannister's match-up with Arya.

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It definitely hints and all but tells us Renly and Loras are gay in the books. For one, 'The Rainbow Guard'? Come on!

Here's a list of a load of references to them:

http://www.angelfire...lorasrenly.html#

Firstly, I'm not a huge fan of the tv series', I enjoy it but I definitely prefer the books. With regards to not staying loyal to the books there are several reasons to why I think numerous things are changed:

1) In my opinion it would be very difficult to fit all the important content from the books into a 10 episode series. For this reason they either have to change events, combine events or be much more explicit in the delivery which is often subtle and/or lengthy in the books.

2) Keeping it interesting. There is a lot of political talk, family talk, tactical talk, planning and verbal jousting in the books. Although engrossing I doubt this would come off well on screen so it has to be dramatised or put on screen in different forms.

3) Budget. Huge battle scenes are very expensive. Added to this is the fact that there aren't many instances in the books where the POV character is directly involved in the battle at that time. (Eg. Whispering Wood).

It does bug me when they change things unnecessarily or kill off characters that have built up a personality to me in the books. The fact that the Reeds won't be in it and that Reek seems to have been cut are also annoying. Similarly the way Ygritte has escaped Jon Snow and got him captured despite him freeing her in the book and bonding with Qhorin. But there have similarly been good changes IMO such as Tywin Lannister's match-up with Arya.

Agreed... but they've murdered one of Denarys' haid maidens and stole her dragons.. not sure why!?

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I'bv read that in season two one of Dhaenerys guards are actually killed off despite him having a prominent role in book 6 (not yet out). He actually gets chapters to himself. :blink:

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What do you guys think to the characters in the book/tv series, for me Tyrion Lannister is by far the best character

Tyrion, Jon and Jaime are particularly good early on. I find Daenerys storyline to be less interesting in parts.

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Not really enjoying this 2nd Season as much, it's deviated so far from the books. The Jaime storyline is particularly daft. Quite like the Arya/Tywin bits but at the same time disappointed not to see Arya/Roose (who I found a more interesting character than Tywin in the books).

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Have people here never heard of SPOILERS!!! :angry:

One point I was thinking of whilst reading book 2 last night - why (in the books) is there a map of the Summer Isles that is only referenced in the book as being somewhere far away that other people live in and that none of the main characters visit or have come from (other than the Targaryen's many generations ago) and yet there's no map at all of the lands in which Daenerys and her retinue have their adventure in?

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It was incredibe great scenes, up there for as one of my fav tv episodes ever! (nothing will beat the finale of dexter season 4) dog is the man!! The line "If you die with a clean sword I will rape your dead corpse" has to go down in history as the best line ever!

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Few things....

1) I know they've been cutting costs where possible but I was a little disappointed with the battle set, it was really budget. The wildfire scenes were great but they weren't even close to capturing the scale of the rest of the event. The battle set seemed to consist of literally one 30-yard section of wall in which Stannis appeared to be about the only person to climb.

2) Tyrion's Chain. I can't remember whether it was referred to earlier in the season but that was a huge thing in the book and one of the reasons Tyrion got so many plaudits. Granted they changed it with the single Lannister kamikaze ship but it still seemed a bit rubbish to leave it out as that's what trapped Stannis' fleet in the bay.

3) Lack of horses. Again, I get that the budget is tight and they may cost a lot but I feel it really takes away a lot of the epicness and something feels missing when I've barely seen anyone mounted in the whole series. I do get it, it's just a little disappointing.

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Good point. As well as being gay, he seems corrupt and self-obsessed - which other than his declaring himself king (after largely disappearing from the story) didn't come across in the book.

Corrupt, maybe not - but "massive ego" was pretty much the cornerstone of the character's personality.

One point I was thinking of whilst reading book 2 last night - why (in the books) is there a map of the Summer Isles that is only referenced in the book as being somewhere far away that other people live in and that none of the main characters visit or have come from (other than the Targaryen's many generations ago) and yet there's no map at all of the lands in which Daenerys and her retinue have their adventure in?

If its the same edition I've got (so its the page with Astapor, Yunkai, Valyria etc. on it) then its there for Book 3.

For some reason, the ones I've got (2011 editions) haven't got the last map with the Free Cities on it in them until Book 5, even though its a frequently used location in book 4 - so I wouldn't worry about the maps really, they're not exactly well arranged.

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