Animal rights

[Manwell Pablo]

Apologies, i think ive misread the story -

http://www.theage.co...0529-1zhfw.html

http://www.ucsusa.or...or-trouble.html

but dont think for a minute that animals and fish arent being fed antibiotics... and there is significanrt questioning through out the scientific community as to the effects on humans and "superbugs"

http://www.sciencedi...399077X04001829

...Resistant bacteria that develop in CAFOs (confined animal feeding operations) can be transferred to the general human population via food. The government, public health officials, and physicians are increasingly concerned about foodborne diseases caused by Campylobacter and Salmonella bacteria. According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC...

...Especially troubling is their use not to cure sick animals but to promote "feed efficiency," that is, to increase the animal's weight gain per unit of feed. These drugs are also regularly added to the feed and water of animals that are not sick in order to prevent diseases caused by overcrowded and unsanitary CAFO conditions. These nontherapeutic uses translate into relatively cheap meat prices at the grocery store...

You mean you're talking bull shit (again)

[ozleicester]

You mean you're talking bull shit (again)

Thanks again for your valued input. your well thought out and constructed discussions are a highlight of any day.

If quoting valid and valuable studies is talking bullshit, then so be it.

Still no answer to the questions, how do you feel about the use of antibiotics in food and do you feel that this use is contributing to the increased likelihood of super-bugs and therefore a threat to (according to some, infinitely more valuable) human lives?

[Manwell Pablo]

Thanks again for your valued input. your well thought out and constructed discussions are a highlight of any day.

If quoting valid and valuable studies is talking bullshit, then so be it.

Still no answer to the questions, how do you feel about the use of antibiotics in food and do you feel that this use is contributing to the increased likelihood of super-bugs and therefore a threat to (according to some, infinitely more valuable) human lives?

The valuable and valid source that said meat is good for you? You made sure you left that bit out didn't you?

I don’t know how you think I'm supposed to answer that given scientists can't, but until there is a proven link (there isn't one) I'd start peddling something else that actually has some proven science behind it instead of grabbing at straws. If you want my honest opinion it's not something I'd worry about, I'd imagine the amounts of antibotics found in fish, given that they are fish and were more than likely given very small doses of the stuff anyway, and that their bodies had processed the drugs, would be absloutley tiny. Not to mention the fact that I don't think they're actually given the same antibotics as human beings anyway. I can't really say it's something I'm worried about.

Even if it was proven btw, I'm quite sure we can think of a better solution than STOP EATING FISH QUICK .

You're boring, you don't care about Super bugs, or horse meat, the environment, or the fact that TOO MUCH processed meat can kill you, or half the other things you whinge about do you? Really, you just using them to try and fuel your campaign against animal cruelty. Which we've long established every on here is bored of, why you insist on dragging this discussion out, for nearly a year now I don't know. Someone should really close it. And this is the last time I’m ever stepping foot in it.

Plus by your own standards, where you branded all those who show sympathy towards animals shot for ivory as hypocrites as they eat meat. You are the biggest hypocrite on this board, you whinge on about using animals for our pleasure and killing animals by buying meat based products yet you've already admitted you keep a cat locked up for your pleasure as a pet and buy it meat therefore contributing to the meat industry yourself. it's laughable.

[Webbo]

This thread has descended into a repetitive slanging match. Would anyone be offended if I closed it?

[FoxesAreBlue]

This thread has descended into a repetitive slanging match. Would anyone be offended if I closed it?

Get rid

[ozleicester]

This thread has descended into a repetitive slanging match. Would anyone be offended if I closed it?

I would be extremely disapointed if the thread were closed, My last post contained interesting and scientific information, the deliberate attempts by two trolls should not result in a topic (that has had thousands of views) being closed.

If the moderators make decisions on closing topics simply because one of the boys says theyve had enough, then they should be embarrassed and ashamed.

and being as the leading player/troll has suggested he will not be visiting the topic again there is no need for it to be closed.

and, if topics desending into slanging was cause for closure.... there would only be 3 topics on the site.

In my opinion the role of moderators is not to simply fullfill the wishes of the squeaky wheel

[MooseBreath]

The thing you have to consider is whether or not you want the forum to be a breeding ground for extremists like ozleicester. His horrific treatment of cats and flat out refusal to listen to any plea for him to relent stand testimont to the kind of cold blooded, vicious monster we are dealing with here. I certainly wouldn't want my kids to be reading some of the views and about some of the practices described on here. I'm all for freedom of speech but to allow people to preach such dangerous and hate filled diatribe is surely not the purpose of the forum. We all like a joke and the occasional troll but ozl takes it too far, imho.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Are we still anthropomorphising animals?

FREE THE FELINE ONE!

[Zingari]

I'd sooner it were kept open.

There's no real harm being done, and at least all the animal welfare and rights stuff is in one place rather than spreading into other threads.

Some of it is very interesting too, but I agree it does occasionally become a bit too bitchy.

Oz is obviously very passionate about the subject and i hope he can keep us aware of some stuff going on that might not get much mainstream media coverage.

We don't have to agree with him to respect his efforts .

[BoneDog]

I'd agree with keeping it open.

It's quite a debate, and also has a bit of 'action' thrown in which I enjoy on FT.

[Webbo]

I would be extremely disapointed if the thread were closed, My last post contained interesting and scientific information, the deliberate attempts by two trolls should not result in a topic (that has had thousands of views) being closed.

If the moderators make decisions on closing topics simply because one of the boys says theyve had enough, then they should be embarrassed and ashamed.

and being as the leading player/troll has suggested he will not be visiting the topic again there is no need for it to be closed.

and, if topics desending into slanging was cause for closure.... there would only be 3 topics on the site.

In my opinion the role of moderators is not to simply fullfill the wishes of the squeaky wheel

I'm not fulfilling anyone's wishes, I have to read this thread and it is very repetitive with more heat than light. I've been tempted to bin it for months. But if everyone is happy for it to continue then fair enough.

[OzFox]

Are we still anthropomorphising animals?

FREE THE FELINE ONE!

Keep the little bugger inside I reckon. ozleicester's just doing his bit for native fauna:

Each cat takes 5-30 animals a night, says the AWC, so (using a conservative population estimate of 15 million) they conclude that a minimum of 75 million native animals are killed daily. In a country struggling to conserve its unique fauna, the scale of this figure should not be underestimated.

http://www.australiangeographic.com.au/journal/natural-born-killers-the-problem-with-cats.htm

[The Doctor]

Keep the little bugger inside I reckon. ozleicester's just doing his bit for native fauna:

Each cat takes 5-30 animals a night, says the AWC, so (using a conservative population estimate of 15 million) they conclude that a minimum of 75 million native animals are killed daily. In a country struggling to conserve its unique fauna, the scale of this figure should not be underestimated.

http://www.australia...m-with-cats.htm

Screw the natives!

This can either be taken as Charlie Sheen's holiday advice or a mark of lack of shits given about local fauna. Take your pick.

[BoneDog]

I think it'd be a shame for the local unique fauna to disappear.

Muzzles, or little cat balaclavas and little cat socks could be the solution. Not sure if anyone's mentioned that.

[ozleicester]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/abattoir-workers-sacked-over-animal-cruelty-20130322-2gl48.html

"Animal Liberation - an animal rights group - released footage, recorded covertly at the Tahmoor plant over a two-week period in February, that showed turkeys being bashed, kicked and stomped."

[OzFox]

Screw the natives!

This can either be taken as Charlie Sheen's holiday advice or a mark of lack of shits given about local fauna. Take your pick.

I think it'd be a shame for the local unique fauna to disappear.

Muzzles, or little cat balaclavas and little cat socks could be the solution. Not sure if anyone's mentioned that.

Must say I find those stats a bit dubious. The cats I know can barely drag themselves off the couch, let alone go out and hunt down 5-30 animals a night

[Jaspa]

Must say I find those stats a bit dubious. The cats I know can barely drag themselves off the couch, let alone go out and hunt down 5-30 animals a night

Exactly what I thought, but couldnt be arsed typing it in yesterday

'estimate', '75mil a day' = Bull

[ozleicester]

For our American friends...

http://www.aspca.org/about-us/aspca-april/

Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Month

April is Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Month, and each year, the ASPCA urges supporters across the country to support our efforts and Go Orange for Animals in honor of the signing of the ASPCA's charter in 1866. Throughout the month, we’ll be encouraging our members to show their support by donning our signature color and going orange for animals. Please join us for this month-long celebration of our victories in the fight against animal cruelty.

[theessexfox]

Read this thread through (over the course of a week), very interesting stuff...

Although in principle I agree with a lot of what ozleicester is saying, I will continue to eat meat. It tastes amazing, and I fail to see the difference that myself alone could make. If there was a guarantee that by stopping eating meat, any less animals would be mistreated, then perhaps I would turn veggie (although a tasty alternative would preferably be on the cards!) However, I am all for the stopping of maltreating animals before they are killed, and am against hunting and bull-fighting.

[ozleicester]

Read this thread through (over the course of a week), very interesting stuff...

Although in principle I agree with a lot of what ozleicester is saying, I will continue to eat meat. It tastes amazing, and I fail to see the difference that myself alone could make. If there was a guarantee that by stopping eating meat, any less animals would be mistreated, then perhaps I would turn veggie (although a tasty alternative would preferably be on the cards!) However, I am all for the stopping of maltreating animals before they are killed, and am against hunting and bull-fighting.

[theessexfox]

The thing is, by me giving up meat, will any less animals be killed?

[Guest MattP]

What a brilliant story, the Down and Out blog awaits for that writer.

[purpleronnie]

isn't that interfering with nature?....and not in a good way ooo err missus.

[theessexfox]

isn't that interfering with nature?....and not in a good way ooo err missus.

First a poor tabby, now starfish...

[Houdini Logic]