Animal rights

[ozleicester]

Some interesting discussions it would appear.

 

http://animalresearchdebate.idebate.org/debatabase/debates/environment/house-believes-animals-have-rights

 

 

http://animalresearchdebate.idebate.org/debatabase/debates/science-technology/house-would-ban-development-genetically-modified-organisms

 

http://animalresearchdebate.idebate.org/content/imperial-college-londons-big-animal-research-debate

[ozleicester]

"For some, hearing that animals are intelligent is enthralling. But for many, losing their exclusivity on intelligence is discomforting."

 

 

http://indaily.com.au/opinion/2013/10/29/getting-smart-about-animal-intelligence/

 

 

Squirrels fake hiding seeds when they know others are watching. Crows can construct hooks out of wire to use as tools. Chimpanzees have better short-term memories than humans.

Bumblebees can solve some problems faster than computers. Rats feel empathy for their species companions. Honey bees can recognise faces. Magpies are self-aware.

And Caenorhabditis elegans, a worm with only 302 brain cells, can learn and remember.

[OzFox]

"For some, hearing that animals are intelligent is enthralling. But for many, losing their exclusivity on intelligence is discomforting."

 

 

http://indaily.com.au/opinion/2013/10/29/getting-smart-about-animal-intelligence/

 

 

Squirrels fake hiding seeds when they know others are watching. Crows can construct hooks out of wire to use as tools. Chimpanzees have better short-term memories than humans.

Bumblebees can solve some problems faster than computers. Rats feel empathy for their species companions. Honey bees can recognise faces. Magpies are self-aware.

And Caenorhabditis elegans, a worm with only 302 brain cells, can learn and remember.

 

Saw a magpie lying on it's back today, while two others looked on in confusion. Dunno if you'd class that as intelligent, but it was certainly amusing.

 

Spent most of last week arguing with my father in law (ex farmer) whose first response to any living thing encroaching on his property is to kill it. In my time there he managed to knock off mynah birds, geckos, a carpet python and a bandicoot, none of which were doing any harm. His main argument seems to be "they're pests and they don't belong here"

[OzFox]

[Houdini Logic]

 

Oh and in reference to a recent question about what i will and wont eat, For me it comes down to.... if it can experience pain then i choose not to make it suffer for my pleasure. Someone in the topic made some very valid points about cockles and the like and whether they feel pain (apparently not) and whilst i havent been game to eat them yet, it has given me more to think about.

 

But surely it should have the chance to live a life like any other animal?

[ozleicester]

But surely it should have the chance to live a life like any other animal?

 

Its an interesting conundrum, a right to life is a strong part of my belief, however, if you have no awareness of life, and feel no pain or suffering then i think i am personally comfortable in eating it.

 

 

I usually avoid posting this stuff, as there is a risk of the discussion heading off down racist lines... but, lets ignore who did and just consider what they do?

 

http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2013/s3880669.htm

[Rincewind]

Some animals, herit crabs for instance give birth to thousands of young at a time who then rush to the sea. The majority do not make it as they are gobbled up by birds. What is my point you say? It is they give birth to a great number because of the amount devoured but it only needs two to continue the species. I may eat a chicken but I know there are thousands remain to carry on breeding and carry on their species.

If people stopped eating them their would be no farms for them to live on because of the cost so could fall prey to other predators and natual disease so I will carry on eating chickens happy in the knowledge that by doing so I am enabling the chicken to survive as a species.

[ozleicester]

Another "important race" another horse pushed beyond its limits and killed.

 

http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/sport/melbourne-cup-runner-verema-euthanised/story-fnia3gmi-1226753635918

 

its ok though, coz look at the fashions..

 

[Guest MattP]

Still got no idea why your biggest race is a handicap.

[ozleicester]

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/breaking/19734532/cruel-animal-slaughter-exposed-again/

[Manwell Pablo]

 

 

Really fancy fish for dinner now. Thanks Oz!

[OzFox]

Really fancy fish for dinner now. Thanks Oz!

 

Just don't eat a humphead wrasse. I was just reading that they are "considered inedible by the British"

[ozleicester]

Yup that makes sense -

 

video footage of calves being abused, dragged by one leg, kicked, punched, thrown, and tossed onto the concrete floor from the back of a truck.

Some of the calves shown were so young, their umbilical cords are still visible in the video

 

http://www.examiner.com/article/investigator-charged-with-animal-cruelty-for-exposing-quanah-dairy-calf-abuse

 

 

 

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/11/24/taylor-radig-cattle-abuse_n_4333302.html

 

• The video she filmed earlier this year for animals rights organisation, Compassion Over Killing, shows three farmworkers cruelly abusing the newborn calves 
•  
• Some of the animals still have their umbilical cords attached and are too feeble to walk steadily
•  
• Radig filmed them being violently dragged by their legs, kicked and pulled by their ears

[ozleicester]

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/dec/12/cruel-vicious-treatment-cattle-gaza

[DennisNedry]

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

[ozleicester]

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/

 

 

Appalling and very sad if true, as has been discussed in this thread before. I have (a somewhat) intimate knowledge of shelters and im aware that one shelter in little old Perth Kills nearly 10,000 animals a year, simply due to over population and overscrowding etc.

 

 

That page is funded by.... The Center for Consumer Freedom is supported by restaurants, food companies and thousands of individual consumers. From farm to fork, from urban to rural. So im not entirely sure i would give it full credibility, nevertheless if this level of killing is occurring it should certainly be investigated.

 

A little further looking does bring the site into question... http://faculty.smu.edu/jkazez/animal%20rights/Response%20to%20PETA%20kills%20animals.htm

 

This campaign is the work of the deceitfully-named Center for Consumer Freedom (CCF), a front group for Philip Morris, Outback Steakhouse, KFC, cattle ranchers, and other animal exploiters who kill millions of animals every year, not out of compassion, but out of greed. These companies are worried about the strides that PETA is making that are changing their industries and compelling them to take animal welfare concerns seriously, so—since they can’t argue with us on the facts of the animal abuse they fund—they hope to scare people away from caring about animals by spending millions on smear ads, mailings and Web sites like this. To learn more about CCF—which USA Today recently opined should rename its Web site "FatforProfit.com"—please see the following Web sites....

 

If you have 5 minutes, its an interesting letter and a good read.

[ozleicester]

what a strange, strange world we live in.

 

Across the world, people are incensed by the killing of whales, shock horror and international debate.

 

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/thousands-to-rally-at-cottesloe-against-shark-cull-20140102-3077r.html#ixzz2pEFs80PT

 

In WA, our imbecilic government is about to introduce a cull of sharks, (sharks which are more endangered than whales). All because a few people get eaten by sharks when they go in the water... and by "a few" i mean about 6 deaths in 10 years.... pretty much everything you do in a day, from going into your bathroom, to driving to the beach, to crossing the road will put you at greater threat of death... than any shark ever will..

 

the level of stupidity knows no bounds... if you are REALLY concerned about sharks... dont go in the fking water, there has never been a shark fatality out of water

 

This is a part of the human belief that we are the only creatures that matter and because we CAN kill something... we should.

 

 

 

 

As an aside, i think we should just use this as out advertising campaign for the adventure seekers... come to WA and see if you can survive

[Darkon84]

what a strange, strange world we live in.

 

Across the world, people are incensed by the killing of whales, shock horror and international debate.

 

http://www.watoday.com.au/wa-news/thousands-to-rally-at-cottesloe-against-shark-cull-20140102-3077r.html#ixzz2pEFs80PT

 

In WA, our imbecilic government is about to introduce a cull of sharks, (sharks which are more endangered than whales). All because a few people get eaten by sharks when they go in the water... and by "a few" i mean about 6 deaths in 10 years.... pretty much everything you do in a day, from going into your bathroom, to driving to the beach, to crossing the road will put you at greater threat of death... than any shark ever will..

 

the level of stupidity knows no bounds... if you are REALLY concerned about sharks... dont go in the fking water, there has never been a shark fatality out of water

 

This is a part of the human belief that we are the only creatures that matter and because we CAN kill something... we should.

 

 

 

 

As an aside, i think we should just use this as out advertising campaign for the adventure seekers... come to WA and see if you can survive

 

We don't usually see eye to eye in this thread, but I've got to agree with you for once. The shark cull is a ridiculous idea.

[Manwell Pablo]

We don't usually see eye to eye in this thread, but I've got to agree with you for once. The shark cull is a ridiculous idea.

 

You can't agree with him while you still eat meat, it makes you a hypocrite, even though he still buys tinned cat food.  

[The Blur]

Kill the spider. Disgusting dirty fvcking things.

My choice of kill is a bit of bog-roll, crunch the eight legged freak and flush the bastard to a watery grave.

 

 

Did you awarded yourself 100 manly points for working up the courage to kill them?

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Just to repeat a couple of things....

 

"Preaching" ...

I specifically started this topic to avoid preaching in other non related discussions, a number of people chose to, and continue to, try and drag this discussion in to other often unrelated topics. The title is pretty clear.

 

"we can, therefore we should, eat meat"...

As the assumed, highest, most evolved life form on the planet, We can do a myriad things. That doesnt mean we should, in my opinion, it means that we have the greatest responsibility to the less evolved, less intelligent and less capable, rather than kill them for our pleasure.

 

The "ad hominen" games...

There are a few people who have chosen to be involved in this discussion who continually "play the man not the ball" and that is of course their choice, i welcome any discussion because it means at least people are thinking.

 

and of course "the cat"...

What an absurd few days that was. Another fine example of a red herring fallacy, 

 

Oh and in reference to a recent question about what i will and wont eat, For me it comes down to.... if it can experience pain then i choose not to make it suffer for my pleasure. Someone in the topic made some very valid points about cockles and the like and whether they feel pain (apparently not) and whilst i havent been game to eat them yet, it has given me more to think about.

 

Oh and also... yes i miss meat... especially bacon, something about it, is at times mouthwatering... until i remind myself that it is the flesh of an animal... that tends to put me off.

 

Someone also mentioned cute fluffy kitties and puppies and that is where my confusion lies... how do people rationalise that their little "fluffy" should be kept in the lap of luxury and be horrified and outraged when a chav drops some random fluffy in a bin... but then sit down to a blood filled piece of carcass (which was once a cute little baby animal) for dinner?

 

In the end, i have my own opinion and others have theirs and as ive stated a number of times.. "to each their own". 

       

[Manwell Pablo]

       

 

I don't see why his cat is a red hearing honestly. It's a topic of conversation he'd rather not have perhaps, and that is probably why he dismisses it as a red hearing, but that does not make it one. He not only imprisons it (literally, doesn't let it out) but buys it canned meat, containing dead cows, slaughtered at a slaughter house, and his whole operandus modi is to tell us all the things that are bad with "using animals for our pleasure" and tells us all we should be above it, when he does just that, if he expects us to stop shouldn't he? It actively demonstrates that he, the most devote boring and pig headed of animal rights activists can't live without using some sort of meat based products in his daily life or keeping a pet, so how's it a red hearing?    

 

In his own words.......

 

ozleicester, on 05 Apr 2012 - 3:38 PM, said:

 just trying to discuss the hypocrisy

[FoxesAreBlue]

Did you awarded yourself 100 manly points for working up the courage to kill them?

I had a wheelbarrow full. Killing a spider far outranks other Man things like grunting, using tape measures and basic car repair.

[Captain...]

I don't see why his cat is a red hearing honestly. It's a topic of conversation he'd rather not have perhaps, and that is probably why he dismisses it as a red hearing, but that does not make it one. He not only imprisons it (literally, doesn't let it out) but buys it canned meat, containing dead cows, slaughtered at a slaughter house, and his whole operandus modi is to tell us all the things that are bad with "using animals for our pleasure" and tells us all we should be above it, when he does just that, if he expects us to stop shouldn't he? It actively demonstrates that he, the most devote boring and pig headed of animal rights activists can't live without using some sort of meat based products in his daily life or keeping a pet, so how's it a red hearing?    

 

In his own words.......

 

ozleicester, on 05 Apr 2012 - 3:38 PM, said:

 just trying to discuss the hypocrisy

 

Because it is irrelevant to the actual point, which is unnecessary animal cruelty. The majority of what Oz posts in this thread is highlighting cruel and illegal treatment of animals, he gives his honest opinion when asked about his own beliefs, including his treatment of his cat. But what does the relevance of how one man treats one pet, hypocritically or otherwise, have when he is highlighting a brutal and unnecessary cull of sharks (for example)?

 

To keep on bringing it up to discredit every post in this thread is irrelevant and frankly boring, if all you are going to do whenever you open this thread is derail any discussion with the same tired point over and over again, then just don't open the thread.

 

Incidentally I think the cull of sharks is disgusting.

[The People's Hero]

Oh I understand. It's do as I say not as I do?

Got it