Mark_w Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 To be honest though I sympathise with the vegetarian message and I would become one but meat is too delicious. You don't sympathise with the vegetarian message then. The whole point is that, regardless of what it tastes like, no human has the right to kill an animal. I can understand the other point of view, I can cope with the fact that MattP for example just doesn't give a shit about certain animals so he'll eat meat (even though I think he's dead wrong). But the middle ground I just can't understand. If you accept that we don't have the right to kill animals, I don't see how you can possibly choose to continue eating meat.
dsr-burnley Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 You don't sympathise with the vegetarian message then. The whole point is that, regardless of what it tastes like, no human has the right to kill an animal. If humans are superior to animals, we have the right to kill animals. If humans and animals are equal, then we have the same right as foxes, badgers, wolves, bears, lions, cats, magpies, sharks, trout, spiders, etc., to kill animals. If humans are lower than animals, then perhaps we don't have the right. I don't see myself as less important than a spider. So I eat animals.
David Guiza Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 If humans are superior to animals, we have the right to kill animals. If humans and animals are equal, then we have the same right as foxes, badgers, wolves, bears, lions, cats, magpies, sharks, trout, spiders, etc., to kill animals. If humans are lower than animals, then perhaps we don't have the right. I don't see myself as less important than a spider. So I eat animals. You are aware that the animals that you have listed do not have any choice but to eat what they already do in order to survive? Pandas for example, changed their diet and it has became one of the main causes for their near extinction as a species. Whereas humans do not. I believe I'm correct in saying that you can remove any animal from this planet and there would be repercussions, yet if you were to remove humans, the world would carry on as per normal. I'm not saying that everyone should stop eating meat etc, that's your own choice. But, your argument is so flawed that it actually hurts a little.
Mark_w Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 If humans are superior to animals, we have the right to kill animals. If humans and animals are equal, then we have the same right as foxes, badgers, wolves, bears, lions, cats, magpies, sharks, trout, spiders, etc., to kill animals. If humans are lower than animals, then perhaps we don't have the right. I don't see myself as less important than a spider. So I eat animals. I don't really understand why there has to be a hierarchy to be honest. We don't need to kill animals to survive, I think it's wrong for a human to take the life of animal because we know that we don't need to kill other animals to survive and we understand the impact it has (those being the two key differences I can see between humans and other animals when it comes to this). We're all completely aware that eating meat means killing an animal, if you're comfortable with that fine, the law is on your side. But I'm not comfortable with it so I don't eat animals. 1000+ species of animal practice cannibalism, and even though you think we're 'better than or equal to' animals, you still think eating humans is wrong I assume? What makes that different?
Babylon Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 We're all completely aware that eating meat means killing an animal, if you're comfortable with that fine, the law is on your side. But I'm not comfortable with it so I don't eat animals. 1000+ species of animal practice cannibalism, and even though you think we're 'better than or equal to' animals, you still think eating humans is wrong I assume? What makes that different? Actually if I choose not to eat meat the animal still dies. It just ends up in the supermarket bin rather than lovingly cooked into a wonderful roast for me to scoff.
Babylon Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 I have tried Quorn yes, it's rank. I don't mind Quorn mince at all, I use it in spag bol, lasagne, chilli and it pretty much tastes the same once you have all your other flavouring in there. Plus I don't have to muck around defrosting the meat. The only difference being I fart like a cow after eating it and probably kill off the local ecosystem.
Mark_w Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Actually if I choose not to eat meat the animal still dies. It just ends up in the supermarket bin rather than lovingly cooked into a wonderful roast for me to scoff. Well if the millions of vegetarians around the world started buying meat, you can bet that quite a few more animals would die.
Babylon Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Well if the millions of vegetarians around the world started buying meat, you can bet that quite a few more animals would die. But one won't make a difference.... it's ok Mark, have a nibble nobody will know. Some juicy BBQ, pulled pork and ribs hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Well if the millions of vegetarians around the world started buying meat, you can bet that quite a few more animals would die. But fewer than if more people became vegetarians, since then we'd have to have massive culls to cut down the population sizes to managable levels. That's the problem with you hippies, you hate animals so much you want to kill them all, while looking compassionate.
Dr The Singh Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 I'm all for animal rights, as a civilised society I'm shocked they are not allowed to vote, or access to free health care
dsr-burnley Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 I don't really understand why there has to be a hierarchy to be honest. We don't need to kill animals to survive, I think it's wrong for a human to take the life of animal because we know that we don't need to kill other animals to survive and we understand the impact it has (those being the two key differences I can see between humans and other animals when it comes to this). We're all completely aware that eating meat means killing an animal, if you're comfortable with that fine, the law is on your side. But I'm not comfortable with it so I don't eat animals. 1000+ species of animal practice cannibalism, and even though you think we're 'better than or equal to' animals, you still think eating humans is wrong I assume? What makes that different? Fair point about cannibalism, though just because we have higher moral standards than animals doesn't mean we have to take it to extremes. There has to be a hierarchy because otherwise it gets silly. Fair enough treating cows and pigs as equals, then chickens and fish, then rats and mice, then slugs and worms, then flies and wasps, then bacteria and viruses - somewhere before you reach viruses, there has to be a line drawn where those below that line do not have equality. Virtually everyone would draw it above flies - no doubt there are people who won't drive at over 15 mph because of the distressing sight of flies on the windscreen, but not so many - and most people draw it above rats and mice, especially if they're tempted to move into your house. I draw the line immediately below humans - is your line any more logical than mine?
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Fair point about cannibalism, though just because we have higher moral standards than animals doesn't mean we have to take it to extremes. There has to be a hierarchy because otherwise it gets silly. Fair enough treating cows and pigs as equals, then chickens and fish, then rats and mice, then slugs and worms, then flies and wasps, then bacteria and viruses - somewhere before you reach viruses, there has to be a line drawn where those below that line do not have equality. Virtually everyone would draw it above flies - no doubt there are people who won't drive at over 15 mph because of the distressing sight of flies on the windscreen, but not so many - and most people draw it above rats and mice, especially if they're tempted to move into your house. I draw the line immediately below humans - is your line any more logical than mine? Given viruses aren't alive under any definition of life, I don't think we'll be calling for equal rights for them any time soon. or ever.
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 It wasn't used to stamp any kind of authority, this is an internet forum, not the Six Nations. I get that meat has a good taste, I ate it for 22years, but I don't think that's a good enough reason. Especially considering the 1000's of alternatives. I'd imagine the vast majority of meat eaters wouldn't eat dogs & cats if they enjoyed the taste, so why cows, chickens, pigs etc? "All animals are equal, except that some are more equal than others" and all that. You obviously don't know me or many meat eaters. I'll eat anything if it tastes good, the weirder the better. I'm always up for adding something to my list. Cuter or weirder is better. Sea urchin? Yes then.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 I get being veggie for health reasons, I really do. But because you have an ethical problem with it.... Having said THAT I stopped eating lamb for years, cos I thought it was cruel to eat something that hadn't lived very long.... but then I realised it tastes lovely! Which makes me ask the question, why is much more fuss made about veal, than lamb? Surely it's a similar thing? Although I've never had veal.
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 It's the crating people have a problem with veal, not the age of the animal. I'm generally against animal suffering so I do understand that. But as long as it lives a happy enough life until it's bolted in the head then I'm all gravy.
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 You obviously don't know me or many meat eaters. I'll eat anything if it tastes good, the weirder the better. I'm always up for adding something to my list. Cuter or weirder is better. Sea urchin? Yes then. Eh, I can't see the appeal when everything apparently tastes like chicken. Except Kangaroo, that tasted like a beef/pork hybrid.
Mark_w Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Fair point about cannibalism, though just because we have higher moral standards than animals doesn't mean we have to take it to extremes. There has to be a hierarchy because otherwise it gets silly. Fair enough treating cows and pigs as equals, then chickens and fish, then rats and mice, then slugs and worms, then flies and wasps, then bacteria and viruses - somewhere before you reach viruses, there has to be a line drawn where those below that line do not have equality. Virtually everyone would draw it above flies - no doubt there are people who won't drive at over 15 mph because of the distressing sight of flies on the windscreen, but not so many - and most people draw it above rats and mice, especially if they're tempted to move into your house. I draw the line immediately below humans - is your line any more logical than mine? Is it really extreme to think that animals shouldn't be deliberately killed when they don't need to be? Don't get me wrong, if you need to kill an animal to survive then go for it, I'm just saying it shouldn't be done if it's not necessary. I don't think that's an extreme view. Might I ask why you'd put people at the top of this hierarchy of species? What are the criteria?
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Is it really extreme to think that animals shouldn't be deliberately killed when they don't need to be? Don't get me wrong, if you need to kill an animal to survive then go for it, I'm just saying it shouldn't be done if it's not necessary. I don't think that's an extreme view. Might I ask why you'd put people at the top of this hierarchy of species? What are the criteria? So it's cool if they're accidentally killed? Excellent, fetch the US and tell them the taliban is hiding in that field full of cows. Anyway, I would consider "to feed me" a reason they need to be killed. We are kinda top of the food-chain and have pretty much turned nature into our bitch. We've pretty much won this life thing.
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Either you're being sarcastic or you've never had good meat, Al.
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Pfft, everything is chicken. Seriously though, I hate the "tastes like chicken" claims. No, it doesn't - what you've eaten is chicken.
lavrentis Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Vegetarians should eat at Maryland Chicken cause despite their name, what they serve aint meat
Finnegan Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Vegetarians should eat at Maryland Chicken cause despite their name, what they serve aint meat Narborough Rooooad, Evington Rooooad, Granby Street and the one by McDonald's.
The Doctor Posted 25 July 2014 Posted 25 July 2014 Vegetarians should eat at Maryland Chicken cause despite their name, what they serve aint meat It's the finest quality rat chicken of the sewer, don't know what your problem is.
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