Animal rights

[Rincewind]

Our teeth are designe for meat eating but if we have a few hundred years of carrot eating our teeth will be like rabbits.

 

[ozleicester]

Our teeth are designe for meat eating but if we have a few hundred years of carrot eating our teeth will be like rabbits.

 

 

Actually our teeth are not "designed" to eat meat, we dont have the jaw or tooth set up for raw meat eating, our teeth and chewing patterns are those of a herbivore rather than of a carnivore which tends to tear and swallow whole rather than chew.. You are correct to some extent in that over time we have developed teeth that can cope with cooked flesh but the majority of our mouth is made up of the chewing or gnawing teeth of the herbivore.

 

Also our intestines remain "designed" for herbivores rather than carnivores. 

[The Doctor]

You realise that inuits eat their meat raw and plenty of people like their meat blue. Cooking is more a taste preference and a storage issue (because we're not going out and eating fresh kills there's time for bacteria to get in) than a biological necessity.

[Carl the Llama]

http://authoritynutrition.com/8-ridiculous-myths-about-meat-and-health/

[ozleicester]

Processed meats rank alongside smoking as cancer causes, says WHO

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/26/bacon-ham-sausages-processed-meats-cancer-risk-smoking-says-who?CMP=fb_gu

[The Doctor]

Key word being processed. It basically boils down to stop eating so much shit, eat proper chicken breasts rather than mcnuggets for example.

[Bellend Sebastian]

Key word being processed. It basically boils down to stop eating so much shit, eat proper chicken breasts rather than mcnuggets for example.

 

It also covers cured meats, so that's sausages, bacon, ham and all the delicious overseas meat compilations I get from Morrisons on the danger list.

 

I'd happily cut down on all of these if I had the imagination to come up with a tasty alternative

[The Doctor]

It also covers cured meats, so that's sausages, bacon, ham and all the delicious overseas meat compilations I get from Morrisons on the danger list.

I'd happily cut down on all of these if I had the imagination to come up with a tasty alternative

That's the curing process for you, tends to be a lot of salt going into it, but so long as you're not eating a pack a day there's no problem.

[yorkie1999]

Processed meats rank alongside smoking as cancer causes, says WHO

 

 

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/26/bacon-ham-sausages-processed-meats-cancer-risk-smoking-says-who?CMP=fb_gu

 

Also confirmed by Dr. Abdullah Bangara.

[The Doctor]

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/1141998663/how-the-ethical-argument-for-veganism-fails-and

Quite a well written piece about the logical inconsistency of veganism. Care to pick it apart Oz?

[ozleicester]

http://letthemeatmeat.com/post/1141998663/how-the-ethical-argument-for-veganism-fails-and

Quite a well written piece about the logical inconsistency of veganism. Care to pick it apart Oz?

 

I read perhaps 2/3rds of it, and to be honest IMO its pretty much just a rehash of the discussion weve had over the past 69 (  ) pages and i really cant be bothered repeating it all again.

 

Yes, there will be inadvertant death in the move to a vegan lifestyle, and no i dont agree with giving animals equal rights to humans.  

 

It quite simply fails to recognise that we are cruelly and unnecessarily killing billions of sentient beings and we do not need to do this , we do it because we like the taste of bacon etc and we put our joy at eating a burger ahead of the torture and suffering of an animal.... and even when we have acceptable alternatives we continue to do it.

 

This is an interesting (and balanced?) read...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/05/04/what-if-whole-world-became-vegetarian

[The Doctor]

There's not just inadvertent death though, there's deliberate killing of animals for vegans, the only difference is they take the out of sight out of mind approach rather than acknowledging it. But the point is if you want minimal harm then there's diets better than veganism, if it's just reduction then vegans can have no legitimate complaints about a reduced meat diet. Unless you take the rights argument, and then the simple question is why is it ok to kill animals so long as we don't eat them?

[Manwell Pablo]

I read perhaps 2/3rds of it, and to be honest IMO its pretty much just a rehash of the discussion weve had over the past 69 (  ) pages and i really cant be bothered repeating it all again.

 

Yes, there will be inadvertant death in the move to a vegan lifestyle, and no i dont agree with giving animals equal rights to humans.  

 

It quite simply fails to recognise that we are cruelly and unnecessarily killing billions of sentient beings and we do not need to do this , we do it because we like the taste of bacon etc and we put our joy at eating a burger ahead of the torture and suffering of an animal.... and even when we have acceptable alternatives we continue to do it.

 

This is an interesting (and balanced?) read...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/05/04/what-if-whole-world-became-vegetarian

 

You do, how else are you going to feed your cat.

[MPH]

I read perhaps 2/3rds of it, and to be honest IMO its pretty much just a rehash of the discussion weve had over the past 69 (  ) pages and i really cant be bothered repeating it all again.

 

Yes, there will be inadvertant death in the move to a vegan lifestyle, and no i dont agree with giving animals equal rights to humans.  

 

It quite simply fails to recognise that we are cruelly and unnecessarily killing billions of sentient beings and we do not need to do this , we do it because we like the taste of bacon etc and we put our joy at eating a burger ahead of the torture and suffering of an animal.... and even when we have acceptable alternatives we continue to do it.

 

This is an interesting (and balanced?) read...

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/05/04/what-if-whole-world-became-vegetarian

 

 

Thats an opinion , really not a fact. and the word acceptable can be interpreted several ways.

 

To me, no amount of Tofu, TVP, NOTHING can replicate the taste of a good quality burger and nice tasting slice of Bacon. Nothing.

[The Doctor]

You do, how else are you going to feed your cat.

Cats can hunt fine, they just need to be let outside.

[MooseBreath]

Interesting look at plants here, it seems they have a form of consciousness and intelligence, perhaps even emotions and the ability to fear and feel pain.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34849374

It of course begs a question over whether or not human beings should be killing plants for our own enjoyment and if not, what else can we eat?

[ozleicester]

Melbourne cup = another horse killed

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-11-21/red-cadeaux-cause-of-death-an-uncommon-but-known-side-effect/6961214

[The Doctor]

Moose posts an interesting article about whether the "Don't kill sentient beings for food" approach is too simplistic, oz ignores the potential of genuine debate to post about a dead horse. Story of the last 69 pages.

[ozleicester]

Moose posts an interesting article about whether the "Don't kill sentient beings for food" approach is too simplistic, oz ignores the potential of genuine debate to post about a dead horse. Story of the last 69 pages.

 

There are a few posters that i do not respond to. The article you mention addresses things that have been raised, and discussed before, but heyho, ill respond if you wanrt to hear.

 

From that "interesting" article.... 

Daniel Chamovitz: Not 'intelligent' but highly useful

Professor Daniel Chamovitz is the Dean of Life Sciences at Tel Aviv University and the author of What A Plant Knows.

"Anyone who claims they're studying plant "intelligence" is either trying to be very controversial or is on the borderline of pseudoscience.

"We could see in the Venus flytrap its ability to close on a leaf. I could then define that as "intelligence", but that doesn't help me understand the plant biology at all. We have to be very clear on terminology.

"We cannot talk about plants thinking. We can talk about plants being aware of their environment because a plant's very exquisitely adapted to its environment.

[MooseBreath]

If you're not going to respond to people who challenge your views then what is the point of this thread, exactly? You've also ignored the interesting parts of that article and focused narrowly on what suits your view the best. What a poor way to reach conclusions about something that's apparently so important to you.

I think we can all see by now that the arguments in favour of vegetarianism are as flimsy and limp wristed as the people who espouse them, maybe it's time to close the thread and get on with eating tasty animals and releasing cats held in captivity.

Edited 23 November 2015 by MooseBreath

[David Guiza]

Interesting look at plants here, it seems they have a form of consciousness and intelligence, perhaps even emotions and the ability to fear and feel pain.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-34849374

It of course begs a question over whether or not human beings should be killing plants for our own enjoyment and if not, what else can we eat?

It is interesting how much life or conscience plants may or may not have, but I think to compare a plant to a pig, for example, is still a long way off. 

 

It's literally impossible to not harm some things in the process of staying alive, but being a vegan, vegetarian, pescatarian, fruitarian or even eating veggie for 1/2 days a week is all about making whatever difference you feel is necessary. There's a reason that entire towns in some parts of the world have taken to meat free Mondays etc, and it's not the first step to becoming a tee-total hippie, peace loving, free loading, political correctness gone mad society.  

 

I generally couldn't care less about whether or not I'm considered a hypocrite for eating plants or driving a car etc, I do what I can to live as healthy and harmless life as possible. I personally think there's a huge difference between consciously not eating the dead flesh of animal and eating harvested crops/plants, but maybe I'm wrong and in years to come we'll take our children to see plants at the local safari park.

[The Doctor]

Take care of animals this winter

[Darkon84]

Sorry to everyone for bringing this up, but I couldn't help but post this

 

 

Also, The Swiss Federal Ethics Committee on Non-Human Biotechnology ruled in 2008 that plants do, in fact, have dignity. It's official. Vegetarians and Vegans are murderers!

 

Quite an interesting video from Zurich TEDex outlining some of the features plants have which show reactionary intelligence and memory.

 

http://tedxinnovations.ted.com/2016/01/14/spotlight-tedx-talk-do-plants-have-dignity/

[David Guiza]

Sorry to everyone for bringing this up, but I couldn't help but post this

 

 

Also, The Swiss Federal Ethics Committee on Non-Human Biotechnology ruled in 2008 that plants do, in fact, have dignity. It's official. Vegetarians and Vegans are murderers!

 

Quite an interesting video from Zurich TEDex outlining some of the features plants have which show reactionary intelligence and memory.

 

http://tedxinnovations.ted.com/2016/01/14/spotlight-tedx-talk-do-plants-have-dignity/

Find it so annoying when crap like this is posted on social media etc in an attempt to make the argument that vegans are irresponsible and forcing their views on animals. Of course you shouldn't feed cats a vegan diet, I'm fairly certain the vast majority of vegans wouldn't do it as they have a brain (surprise to some I'm sure). I'm probably around 90% vegan but occasionally eat fish as I struggle to get all the vitamins I need for a 6ft 3 athletic man without taking numerous supplements, but of course it's possible, and I'd never even think of giving a baby, dog, cat, rabbit etc the same diet as myself.  

 

If you are however desperate for a vegan/veggie pet then I'm sure there's a few gorillas left in the world.

[Darkon84]

Find it so annoying when crap like this is posted on social media etc in an attempt to make the argument that vegans are irresponsible and forcing their views on animals. Of course you shouldn't feed cats a vegan diet, I'm fairly certain the vast majority of vegans wouldn't do it as they have a brain (surprise to some I'm sure). I'm probably around 90% vegan but occasionally eat fish as I struggle to get all the vitamins I need for a 6ft 3 athletic man without taking numerous supplements, but of course it's possible, and I'd never even think of giving a baby, dog, cat, rabbit etc the same diet as myself.  

 

If you are however desperate for a vegan/veggie pet then I'm sure there's a few gorillas left in the world.

 

Haha it's ok mate, it was just a little jokey dig at Oz because of how he kept/keeps his cat indoors at all times and if memory serves me right, fed his cat a vegetarian diet. I don't thin kthe little article is trying to lay blame to every single vegan that has a pet or anything anyway, it's merely highlighting that cats are carnivores and therefore need to be fed as such.