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ozleicester

Animal rights

By ozleicester, in General Chat

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David Guiza

David Guiza

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Haha it's ok mate, it was just a little jokey dig at Oz because of how he kept/keeps his cat indoors at all times and if memory serves me right, fed his cat a vegetarian diet. I don't thin kthe little article is trying to lay blame to every single vegan that has a pet or anything anyway, it's merely highlighting that cats are carnivores and therefore need to be fed as such.

Haha not to worry, I did assume you were being tongue in cheek. But yeah, you'd be surprised by the amount of times I've seen that picture/similar articles suggesting that vegans want to run the world! Although, in fairness, some vegans I've come across (on the internet) are some of the most arrogant, selfish and awful people you could have the misfortune of encountering.

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Darkon84

Darkon84

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Haha not to worry, I did assume you were being tongue in cheek. But yeah, you'd be surprised by the amount of times I've seen that picture/similar articles suggesting that vegans want to run the world! Although, in fairness, some vegans I've come across (on the internet) are some of the most arrogant, selfish and awful people you could have the misfortune of encountering.

 

To be fair, I saw it circulating on social media, and couldn't help but have a little joke with Oz (no offence, but still, it has a point haha). Strangely, bar my Uncle, I don't think I've ever met a vegan who doesn't want to shove it in your face and lecture you on, effectively, what a terrible person you are lol ah well each to their own.

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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 plant's sensory and response system has been compared to the neurobiological processes of animals. Plant neurobiology, an unfamiliar misnomer, concerns mostly the sensory adaptive behaviour of plants and plant electrophysiology. Indian scientist J. C. Bose is credited as the first person to research and talk about neurobiology of plants. Many plant scientists and neuroscientists, however, view this as inaccurate, because plants do not have neurons.[32]

The ideas behind plant neurobiology were criticised in a 2007 article[32] published in Trends in Plant Science by Amedeo Alpi and 35 other scientists, including such eminent plant biologists as Gerd Jürgens, Ben Scheres, and Chris Sommerville. The breadth of fields of plant science represented by these researchers reflects the fact that the vast majority of the plant science research community reject plant neurobiology. Their main arguments are that:[32]

  • "Plant neurobiology does not add to our understanding of plant physiology, plant cell biology or signaling".
  • "There is no evidence for structures such as neurons, synapses or a brain in plants".
  • The common occurrence of plasmodesmata in plants which "poses a problem for signaling from an electrophysiological point of view" since extensive electrical coupling would preclude the need for any cell-to-cell transport of a ‘neurotransmitter-like’ compounds.

The authors call for an end to "superficial analogies and questionable extrapolations" if the concept of "plant neurobiology" is to benefit the research community.[32]

There were several responses to the criticism clarifying that the term "plant neurobiology" is a metaphor and metaphors have proved useful on several previous occasions.[37][38]Plant ecophysiology describes this phenomenon.

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Darkon84

Darkon84

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 plant's sensory and response system has been compared to the neurobiological processes of animals. Plant neurobiology, an unfamiliar misnomer, concerns mostly the sensory adaptive behaviour of plants and plant electrophysiology. Indian scientist J. C. Bose is credited as the first person to research and talk about neurobiology of plants. Many plant scientists and neuroscientists, however, view this as inaccurate, because plants do not have neurons.[32]

The ideas behind plant neurobiology were criticised in a 2007 article[32] published in Trends in Plant Science by Amedeo Alpi and 35 other scientists, including such eminent plant biologists as Gerd Jürgens, Ben Scheres, and Chris Sommerville. The breadth of fields of plant science represented by these researchers reflects the fact that the vast majority of the plant science research community reject plant neurobiology. Their main arguments are that:[32]

  • "Plant neurobiology does not add to our understanding of plant physiology, plant cell biology or signaling".
  • "There is no evidence for structures such as neurons, synapses or a brain in plants".
  • The common occurrence of plasmodesmata in plants which "poses a problem for signaling from an electrophysiological point of view" since extensive electrical coupling would preclude the need for any cell-to-cell transport of a ‘neurotransmitter-like’ compounds.

The authors call for an end to "superficial analogies and questionable extrapolations" if the concept of "plant neurobiology" is to benefit the research community.[32]

There were several responses to the criticism clarifying that the term "plant neurobiology" is a metaphor and metaphors have proved useful on several previous occasions.[37][38]Plant ecophysiology describes this phenomenon.

 

Not quite sure what you are trying to get at there? A single scientist 9 years ago says plants don't have a brain? I'm fairly certain everyone is in agreement on that front, but when it comes to being sentient, it can be, and has been heavily argued that they are in numerous, detailed studies and papers since.

 

EDIT: Actually, nevermind, I shouldn't have dragged this thread up again anyway lol

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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Not quite sure what you are trying to get at there? A single scientist 9 years ago says plants don't have a brain? I'm fairly certain everyone is in agreement on that front, but when it comes to being sentient, it can be, and has been heavily argued that they are in numerous, detailed studies and papers since.

 

EDIT: Actually, nevermind, I shouldn't have dragged this thread up again anyway lol

 

So your quote   (Ethics Committee on Non-Human Biotechnology ruled in 2008) from a "committee" from 8 years ago is perfectly valid then lol

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The Doctor

The Doctor

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So your quote   (Ethics Committee on Non-Human Biotechnology ruled in 2008) from a "committee" from 8 years ago is perfectly valid then lol

 

When it's just one of many data points suggesting plants have intelligence, yes. Also, way to miss the point - plants may not have a brain in the traditional sense, but that doesn't mean there's not reason to believe they've not got some form of sentience. 

 

But if we're just posting inane crap rather than engaging properly now:

 

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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When it's just one of many data points suggesting plants have intelligence, yes. Also, way to miss the point - plants may not have a brain in the traditional sense, but that doesn't mean there's not reason to believe they've not got some form of sentience. 

 

But if we're just posting inane crap rather than engaging properly now:

 

 

To be fair, inane crap has been a mainstay of this thread Fear of difference and refusal to accept logic are the foundations.

 

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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Good News.

Step one....

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-07/greyhound-racing-to-be-banned-in-new-south-wales/7576816

 

he inquiry found:

  • Between 48,000–68,000 dogs were killed in past 12 years in NSW because they were too slow or otherwise unsuitable for racing
  • Live baiting is widespread, with about 10–20 per cent of trainers engaged in the practice
  • Greyhound Racing NSW had a policy of deliberately misreporting the number of dog deaths and injuries
  • The industry is not capable of reforming over the short or medium term
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dhermon

dhermon

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Good News.

Step one....

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-07-07/greyhound-racing-to-be-banned-in-new-south-wales/7576816

 

he inquiry found:

  • Between 48,000–68,000 dogs were killed in past 12 years in NSW because they were too slow or otherwise unsuitable for racing
  • Live baiting is widespread, with about 10–20 per cent of trainers engaged in the practice
  • Greyhound Racing NSW had a policy of deliberately misreporting the number of dog deaths and injuries
  • The industry is not capable of reforming over the short or medium term

 

The numbers are total BS  as the industry dont keep track of the numbers its a guess but it doesnt take into account numbers retired at trainers property or given back to owners given away on gumtree GAP Greyhound rescue and other rehoming places 

I've got 2 that will not make it to track and as i wont use gap to rehome they are considered wasteage by AA as there is no offical tracking of them once i log onto GRV and retire these 2 they are counted towards wasteage figures 

Live baiting is not wide spread (10-20%) again another guess interestingly though the trainers i know that did it were big time trainers trying to keep an edge over the hobby trainers most smarter trainers stopped using places like Tooradin and other trialing tracks as its a pointless exercise whats the point of trialing a dog on a backyard track that the dog will never run on and is alot more likely to get injured running on 

Animals Australia also have an open policy of misreporting numbers and not just when it comes to greyhounds!!

RSPCA kill domestic cats and dogs at alarming rates yet nothing is said about that 

Animals Australia actually have a policy where they are aiming at having NO animal kept as a pet at all ever period!!

The industry is well under way to reform in other states Victoria alone has seen a drop in breeding in the last 12 months by 25% 

I dont agree at all with the complete ban but then i do have a vested interest in it but BUT i am totally for reforms and much much harsher penalties to trainers handlers owners that do the wrong thing prison would be to good for the pond scum that ive seen/read about doing the wrong thing

You think greyhounds are bad try spending some time on a farm ....

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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The numbers are total BS  as the industry dont keep track of the numbers its a guess but it doesnt take into account numbers retired at trainers property or given back to owners given away on gumtree GAP Greyhound rescue and other rehoming places 

I've got 2 that will not make it to track and as i wont use gap to rehome they are considered wasteage by AA as there is no offical tracking of them once i log onto GRV and retire these 2 they are counted towards wasteage figures 

Live baiting is not wide spread (10-20%) again another guess interestingly though the trainers i know that did it were big time trainers trying to keep an edge over the hobby trainers most smarter trainers stopped using places like Tooradin and other trialing tracks as its a pointless exercise whats the point of trialing a dog on a backyard track that the dog will never run on and is alot more likely to get injured running on 

Animals Australia also have an open policy of misreporting numbers and not just when it comes to greyhounds!!

RSPCA kill domestic cats and dogs at alarming rates yet nothing is said about that 

Animals Australia actually have a policy where they are aiming at having NO animal kept as a pet at all ever period!!

The industry is well under way to reform in other states Victoria alone has seen a drop in breeding in the last 12 months by 25% 

I dont agree at all with the complete ban but then i do have a vested interest in it but BUT i am totally for reforms and much much harsher penalties to trainers handlers owners that do the wrong thing prison would be to good for the pond scum that ive seen/read about doing the wrong thing

You think greyhounds are bad try spending some time on a farm ....

 

Im sure that there is some misrepresentation by AA, as indeed there is by the industry, nevertheless it is fact that thousands will be killed in coming years simply because they dont meet the greedy owners desires. (not saying thats you)

 

You are right about the RSPCA and i have complained and removed support for this organisation as a result, we work separate from them for those very reasons.

 

Live baiting is used, and is cruel. and the industry was given many opportunities to stop it and they did not, they can say its just a few doing it, but they know who they are and they allowed them to continue to to race and be a part of the industry.

 

Racing is not about having pets, its about exploiting animals for human pleasure.

 

Ideally i wouldve asked for a 2 year process of reaching banning, simply because as so so many owners and the industry have said... the one year will lead to the deaths of many dogs (mind you, ive been told time and again that owners love their dogs, so perhaps im wrong and they will keep them all alive just for the love of it?)

 

The fact that youve seen a 25% drop suggests the industry was over breeding in the previous years and the only reason for the reduction was the exposure of the cruelty, had the hidden video not been taken, the cruelty would be continuing. Unfortunatley (for some) people cant just be allowed to use animals simply for our entertainment.

 

Many farms are crap indeed, but i dont support the cruelty inflicted there either.

 

We should just replace the dog/horse racing, with people. easy :)

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ozleicester

ozleicester

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Its annual "race thats stops a nation" Melbourne Cup day. ...oh and ANOTHER race horse has died for our pleasure (thats more than 130 since last years cup)....enjoy :)

 

Here's an interesting (and one that wont offend the gentle sensibilities of the racing fans) read...

 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/are-opponents-of-melbourne-cup-funhating-whingers-or-worried-animal-activists-with-a-point/news-story/3472d55efbc4f481220a819a5458a9be

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Guest MattP

Guest MattP

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42 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Its annual "race thats stops a nation" Melbourne Cup day. ...oh and ANOTHER race horse has died for our pleasure (thats more than 130 since last years cup)....enjoy :)

 

Here's an interesting (and one that wont offend the gentle sensibilities of the racing fans) read...

 

http://www.perthnow.com.au/news/national/are-opponents-of-melbourne-cup-funhating-whingers-or-worried-animal-activists-with-a-point/news-story/3472d55efbc4f481220a819a5458a9be

Joseph O' Brien beating his Dad, amazing how one family can dominate a sport so much as these are going to do and are doing so, wasn't the best Melbourne Cup but it's still one hell of a spectacle.

 

Disappointing run from Wall of Fire, I've met the connections of the horse and they fancied their chances more than they should have.

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Aus Fox

Aus Fox

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On 07/11/2017 at 18:47, MattP said:

Joseph O' Brien beating his Dad, amazing how one family can dominate a sport so much as these are going to do and are doing so, wasn't the best Melbourne Cup but it's still one hell of a spectacle.

 

Disappointing run from Wall of Fire, I've met the connections of the horse and they fancied their chances more than they should have.

I had lumped on Wall of Fire, thought he'd have a good run at it.

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