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ozleicester

Animal rights

By ozleicester, in General Chat

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ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
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I just find it interesting that you post so much about animal rights yet contribute massively to their suffering

 

Massively.... lol

 

This may surprise you, but im not perfect, nevertheless, i will try to end the suffering of other as much as i can.

 

Edit - is there any particular reason you arent in favour of preventing cruelty to animals?

Houdini Logic

Houdini Logic

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Posted

Massively.... lol

 

This may surprise you, but im not perfect, nevertheless, i will try to end the suffering of other as much as i can.

 

You don't need to be perfect, just less of a hypocrite.

 

While you're complaining to people about the 150 or so horses that die each year, you should maybe spare a thought for the thousands of male chickens that are minced up or boiled every day as part of the egg industry. There is no such thing as 'free range' if you're born a male...

 

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/worst-things-about-being-a-male-chick-in-the-egg-industry/

ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
  • Author
Posted

You don't need to be perfect, just less of a hypocrite.

 

While you're complaining to people about the 150 or so horses that die each year, you should maybe spare a thought for the thousands of male chickens that are minced up or boiled every day as part of the egg industry. There is no such thing as 'free range' if you're born a male...

 

http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/worst-things-about-being-a-male-chick-in-the-egg-industry/

 

 

Excellent point, couldnt agree more,  Id love to hear your suggestions as to how we can change that...of course if you keep chickens in your back garden, thats not a problem,

 

Interestingly last weekend we took 3 roosters that we had rescued to a friends property. I absolutely agree  about the horrific treatment of roosters. 

 

Also its worth noting that, drinking milk means that millions of cows are being cruelly treated, forcibly impregnated and then having their calf taken at birth to ensure a supply of milk.  Rice milk is an interesting alternative but takes some getting used to.

Houdini Logic

Houdini Logic

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Posted

Excellent point, couldnt agree more,  Id love to hear your suggestions as to how we can change that...of course if you keep chickens in your back garden, thats not a problem,

 

Interestingly last weekend we took 3 roosters that we had rescued to a friends property. I absolutely agree  about the horrific treatment of roosters. 

 

Also its worth noting that, drinking milk means that millions of cows are being cruelly treated, forcibly impregnated and then having their calf taken at birth to ensure a supply of milk.  Rice milk is an interesting alternative but takes some getting used to.

 

My suggestion is stop preaching at people, do your own thing and let others make their own choices in life. 

 

Unless you're a hardcore vegan who lives as a hermit you are ultimately going to inflict injury on animals which could otherwise be avoided. It's just a measure of what you choose to see and what you choose to overlook

DANGEROUS TIGER

DANGEROUS TIGER

Posted
Posted

My suggestion is stop preaching at people, do your own thing and let others make their own choices in life. 

 

Unless you're a hardcore vegan who lives as a hermit you are ultimately going to inflict injury on animals which could otherwise be avoided. It's just a measure of what you choose to see and what you choose to overlook

Some people should stop burying their head's in the sand, just ignoring the facts. It appears that your " choices in life " do just that. You're one of the "If you don't see it, don't worry about it" brigade, I assume.

David Guiza

David Guiza

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The power of those animals is amazing - also vegetarian/vegans as a species :whistle: . Although i've also seen a video where a young kid fell into the Gorilla enclosure at a zoo and they all got scared off by the young boy crying, God only knows how something like that even happens.

ozleicester

ozleicester

Posted
  • Author
Posted

My suggestion is stop preaching at people, do your own thing and let others make their own choices in life. 

 

Unless you're a hardcore vegan who lives as a hermit you are ultimately going to inflict injury on animals which could otherwise be avoided. It's just a measure of what you choose to see and what you choose to overlook

 

hehe,  :)

 

My request for suggestions referred to suggestions as to how we can end the millions of chickens being killed, but i certainly appreciate you telling me what to do and i will take note of your suggestions, knowledge and experience about hypocrisy.

 

Actually you dont have to be a hardcore anything to have an opinion and to do and say what you think is right. You can just try to minimise your negative impact on the world.

 

Also, remarkably, it is  possible that you can be concerned about 150 horses being killed at racetracks.. AND be concerned about millions of chickens dying, in fact if you choose to, you can be concerned about hundreds, thousands of issues, of course you can also sit around and not give a shit about anything other than yourself, thats people i guess.

 

Discussions ("preaching?") are what have brought about improvements to the treatment of animals in caged egg production, have virtually ended sow stall piggeries, have reduced the height and types of fences at racetracks... and a million other improvements, it aint perfect, but, its a slow process and every step forward reduces the cruelty we inflict.

 

The world doesnt change overnight, it takes, years, decades, lifetimes. Im happy to try and do my bit, however big or small to make change for the better.

 

 

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

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The people doing this are part of the racing industry so they are doing it.

 

They ill treat those that are not successful, sure the ones that are earning them money are indeed treated like kings but they are a very very small percentage.

 

Those that dont make the grade, are mainly either killed and turned to pet food (or Tesco burgers) if they are "lucky", or, they get a bullet through the head and are dumped in a hole in  the outback.

 

 

This is why ive posted before about banning racing altogether, the horses have now been bred to a point that they are all at risk, the thoroughbreds have thinner lighter bones (makes them go faster) and are over trained and muscled and the important point before any comparisons with boxers or footballers, these animals do not have a choice, they are bred and forced to run and jump simply so we can make money from them. Their bodies are no longer natural and whilst the brain say flight, the body is at risk.

 

Horse are instinctive creatures of flight, when fearful etc they run and if there is a herd or troop of horses, they will instinctively follow that group. It not through love of jumping, its a fight or flight response and flight is their nature. but as mentioned, they are no longer built for it.

 

Why do we need racing, we can computer generate an equivalent competition.

 

Yep we have racing coz the horses enjoy it so much.

 

Utter bullshit, the horse we had was shit but we still made sure he had a very good home after retirement, to suggest a lot of owners take them out the back and shoot them is an unbelievable accusation to level at people who in the main really care about these beautiful beasts.

 

As for computer equivalent - lol - That's not the idea is it? Gambling isn't what racing is about, it's about bloodstock, it's the industry that as matched the best with the best for hundreds of years to create these incredible machines that we can marvel at, imagine a World that not only doesn't produce the Frankel's, Kauto's and Black Caviar's but actually wants to end them as a species and instead see us watching things you get in a Blackpool arcade, you're so far off the mark, it would be like killing Beethoven off because we can listen to the wind.

 

The pictures you used were stupid as well, Dubai is pretty much the centre of the falt racing World now and you won't see drunks or gamblers on the courses out there.

 

Also a couple of questions about horses enjoying the racing industry, not looking for an argument just genuinely interested in your response. IF horses do indeed love to race in the industry then 1. Why do we ever need jockeys in that case? 2. Why did we ever need whips?

Clearly race horses and greyhounds are very well looked after, whilst they have some worth to the owner, I would never dispute that. But I reckon greyhounds are well up there in terms of breeds of dog in shelters, and it doesn't take a genius to work out why.    

 

You need jockeys to steer them lol You can't just put 20 horses out in a field and expect them to adhere to a start and finish point on their owns. The whip is absolutely essential for corrrecting some horses as well and for discipline, they are pretty dumb animals and can often veer off anywhere as you sometimes see with them flying into stands and jumping into things and with large crowds present you need everything possible for a horseman to stay in control.

 

I can see the argument for ending whip use to encourage horses but you'd cause more pain and injury if you forced jockeys onto the track without them.

 

Excellent point, couldnt agree more,  Id love to hear your suggestions as to how we can change that...of course if you keep chickens in your back garden, thats not a problem,

 

Interestingly last weekend we took 3 roosters that we had rescued to a friends property. I absolutely agree  about the horrific treatment of roosters. 

 

Also its worth noting that, drinking milk means that millions of cows are being cruelly treated, forcibly impregnated and then having their calf taken at birth to ensure a supply of milk.  Rice milk is an interesting alternative but takes some getting used to.

 

STOP COW RAPE.

 

I'm on board with that one. Honest.

David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

You need jockeys to steer them lol You can't just put 20 horses out in a field and expect them to adhere to a start and finish point on their owns. The whip is absolutely essential for corrrecting some horses as well and for discipline, they are pretty dumb animals and can often veer off anywhere as you sometimes see with them flying into stands and jumping into things and with large crowds present you need everything possible for a horseman to stay in control.

 

I can see the argument for ending whip use to encourage horses but you'd cause more pain and injury if you forced jockeys onto the track without them.

 

 

STOP COW RAPE.

 

I'm on board with that one. Honest.

Haha of course I'm aware of that, It was more a point raised at Rincey's comment that the horses love it and would do it anyway. Of course they love to run, they are built for running, but of course there is a huge difference between running under your own free will and running with an angry dwarf on your back.

As I said before, i'm more than aware that horses are generally kept very well, in most cases, at the top end of the racing industry. My main beef (so to speak) with the horse racing as a sport however is that it surely only exists for gambling purposes. If you removed the gambling element would it not just become a rich mans hobby, like polo?

 

As for the 'cow rape' as you put it, it is pretty horrific. There's some crap jobs out there, but forceably impregnating a cow has got to be well up there.

Had a nice take away salad from Morrisons the other day. The only thing missing was a slice of ham or beef or a chunk of pork pie.

Congrats, man.

Guest MattP

Guest MattP

Posted
Posted

As I said before, i'm more than aware that horses are generally kept very well, in most cases, at the top end of the racing industry. My main beef (so to speak) with the horse racing as a sport however is that it surely only exists for gambling purposes. If you removed the gambling element would it not just become a rich mans hobby, like polo?

 

The gambling is very overplayed because of TV but it would still more than without it, betting is illegal in the middle east and they are now the biggest players of the lot, the Dubai World Cup pays 6million to the winner and attracts 120,000 on course (I was lucky enough to go a couple of years back) and there isn't a bookmaker on the course.

 

The main meeting I never miss is the Open festival in November at Cheltenham and you probably have about 5-6 bookies for 40,000 people, people overplay the gambling aspect because of things like the Grand National and the amount of betting shops on a high street. In terms of contribution to the sport the betting does very little.

 

I probably have 1-2 bets at the most on the raceourse at a major meeting, I'm there to see the racing, not bet on it.

bovril

bovril

Posted
Posted

Wouldn't it be much easier, and infinitely more entertaining, to just bet on human piggy back races?

 

Come to the Balkans man.

David Guiza

David Guiza

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Posted

The gambling is very overplayed because of TV but it would still more than without it, betting is illegal in the middle east and they are now the biggest players of the lot, the Dubai World Cup pays 6million to the winner and attracts 120,000 on course (I was lucky enough to go a couple of years back) and there isn't a bookmaker on the course.

 

The main meeting I never miss is the Open festival in November at Cheltenham and you probably have about 5-6 bookies for 40,000 people, people overplay the gambling aspect because of things like the Grand National and the amount of betting shops on a high street. In terms of contribution to the sport the betting does very little.

 

I probably have 1-2 bets at the most on the raceourse at a major meeting, I'm there to see the racing, not bet on it.

True, but with regards to the middle east, you can't miss something you've never had; particularly to the extreme example that the middle east is. Although clearly they fell in love with it for what it is.

Perhaps to suggest that it would change completley is a step too far, after all every sport has it's purists and dedicated followers, but events such as the Grand National and Cheltenham wouldn't have anywhere near the interest with the outlaw of gambling, in my opinion. I'd be interested to see the percentage of people who attend, or follow, horse racing with no intention of gambling, as opposed to the other main sports in the UK also.

I've never really understood the attraction myself, and most people I know only raise their interest when there's money to be won, but sport is obviously incredibely subjective. I'm sure there's plenty on here whom have no interest whatsoever in Cricket or Ice Hockey for example, but I love them.

  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
David Guiza

David Guiza

Posted
Posted

Is this guy highlighting the hypocrisy between animal rights and eating mass produced animals or just an a3se hole?

 

http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2015/may/26/danish-radio-presenter-strokes-rabbit-before-killing-live-on-air-video

I guess you could argue both, but I'd prefer the latter. Of course it's hypocritical, much the same way that I see all these people getting broody over cute pig pictures before tucking into their bacon sarnies. But, if the guy had any interest in animal rights whatsoever he obviously wouldn't kill the animal, as the joke says, it would be like f***ing for virginity.  

MPH

MPH

Posted
Posted

when it comes to the Egg trade, you should all check out the Battery Hen welfare trust.

 

 

around 18 months of age a hens egg laying rate starts to diminish instead of getting 6-7 eggs a week from then the farmers only gett 5.. Battery hens are often killed around this time  as they are no longer considered financially viable. The battery Hen welfare trust takes them off the farmers hands for no cost ( farmers often have to pay to get them killed hundreds at a time).and give them to people who will treat them fairly and let them see out their days. they have some cool videos on their website of chickens that are adopted and then given to a family who take them out of the transporter box and put them on the grass... its great watching them see sunlight and feel grass for the first ever time.... each year they save 50,000 hens and rehome them - thats alot of families who start to enjoy free range eggs

 

 

I keep chickens. I have a bit of a soft spot for them....

 

 

 

Check out their website: http://www.bhwt.org.uk/rehome-some-hens/

  • 3 months later...

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