Captain... Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 To ric, Kitch, cc and Col. I've been going on about this all season and been 'called' on it many a time...... We have no cutting edge up front and it is primarily due to our fairly ridged setup with 2 men up and two wide, it does not suit our players. I'll explain one more time before Babs tells me off, again! We play two men up because it is attacking but Nugent and Vardy are too similar, both work the channels, chase hard and get into decent positions but duplicate each other to a large extent. One of them should lead the line, I would pick Nugent for his experience but either would be fine. Support the frontman with 3 midfielders in attacking positions, any three from Knockeart, Marshall, Dyer, Vardy (Nugent) or even Gallagher. This is your attacking option, get the 3 to play fairly narrow, swap positions and support the front man, ie get your ballplayers in and around the box. If we need a bit more steel in midfield, for a difficult away game for example, replace one of the attacking players with Danns or James, either of whom will naturally track back and help the midfield, but the system remains pretty much the same. Drinkwater and King continue as they have been of late, defensively sound with the occasional forward run, mostly from King. With midfield players in front of them they do not have quite so much to do so should be able to pace themselves better. To my mind it is pointless bringing yet more players when we have not yet come close to getting the best from what we have. Dave that sounds great in theory, but you are looking at what you think these players can do, and not what they can actually do. What you propose is a fluid 3 behind and buzzing around someone leading the line, but how do you know that is going to work, how do you know that these players are capable of playing like that, of knowing their role getting into the box to support Nugent, or Beckford, and getting out wide and getting back for their defensive duties and switching flanks, without us getting pulled out of shape, or lacking width. In my head I can see Dyer and Marshall criss crossing behind Nugent, getting to the flanks and getting inside, creating width and supporting the centre man with King and Drinkwater bombing up the middle, and dropping back, having every blade of grass covered. The reality will be 2 men on the same flank, Vardy not sure whether he should be up on the defenders shoulder or dropping back/wide. We have a team of mainly under 25 players, we don't have a midfield general to mop up and bark out the orders, we don't have a lot of experience, trying to play your way will most likely lead to confusion and no greater attacking threat apart from for Kamikaze headlong rushes to the goal by everyone. Maybe I am wrong, maybe all the players would adapt instantly to this new formation, they have picked up NP's new philosophy quite easily, but I can't see us changing from 442, especially as performance wise we are looking good, and it may take a bit of time to find the fluidity in attack and defence, but all the signs are it is coming. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haydos Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 I was right in line with that offside - he was off, and so was at least one other. Showed on the replay that all 3 were onside. Sorry mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lcfc_85 Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Not sure why people constantly question the formation. We've had 4 league games and been the better side in all 4 as well as playing a nice attractive football (even though some think NP is too defensive!!). I can see people then questioning us defensively but we've conceded 4 goals in those games, 3 of hich were terrific strikes so really not sure why the issues. Goals will come if we continue to create Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Year Of The Fox Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Did you go to the Charlton and Blackburn games? Knockaert was superb against Charlton and his cross for Vardy's goal that should have stood was excellent. Not having a go, just surprised you've failed to be impressed. Not sure what else he could do in 20/25 minute cameo's? Vardy's goal should have stood and his pass that set Dyer free against Charlton which was inexplicably missed were assists on a plate. To be fair I went to neither, but I didn't comment on those games as I wasn't aware that he'd particularly shone. my comment was based on the two home league games. Perhaps I was expecting too much after hearing about him, though I know on Saturday he didn't see much of the ball. Of all the wingers we now have I still class dyer as the most dangerous. His final ball was pretty poor on Saturday but his frightening pace gets him into those positions in the first place. We exploited that particularly in the opening minutes of the match. I'm not knocking any of the players, I have complete faith that NP knows what he's doing and at this moment I couldn't be much happier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Year Of The Fox Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Nobody was offside mate I still think Beckford was in that example. Vardy is almost as bad a DJ Campbell for being offside! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Dave that sounds great in theory, but you are looking at what you think these players can do, and not what they can actually do. What you propose is a fluid 3 behind and buzzing around someone leading the line, but how do you know that is going to work, how do you know that these players are capable of playing like that, of knowing their role getting into the box to support Nugent, or Beckford, and getting out wide and getting back for their defensive duties and switching flanks, without us getting pulled out of shape, or lacking width. In my head I can see Dyer and Marshall criss crossing behind Nugent, getting to the flanks and getting inside, creating width and supporting the centre man with King and Drinkwater bombing up the middle, and dropping back, having every blade of grass covered. The reality will be 2 men on the same flank, Vardy not sure whether he should be up on the defenders shoulder or dropping back/wide. We have a team of mainly under 25 players, we don't have a midfield general to mop up and bark out the orders, we don't have a lot of experience, trying to play your way will most likely lead to confusion and no greater attacking threat apart from for Kamikaze headlong rushes to the goal by everyone. Maybe I am wrong, maybe all the payers would adapt instantly to this new formation, they have picked up NP's new philosophy quite easily, but I can't see us changing from 442, especially as performance wise we are looking good, and it may take a bit of time to find the fluidity in attack and defence, but all the signs are it is coming. Aaaaah mon capitaine..... How do you know it won't work? Come on,be positive..... Sure there probably needs to be some work done, particularly with the 3, making sure they know the limits of their role but none of the players are being asked to do anything the have not done before. I think you are being a bit unkind to Vardy, he has played wide and done well and not playing as an out and out striker might even take a bit of pressure off of him...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest ttfn Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Showed on the replay that all 3 were onside. Sorry mate. I'm surprised to hear that. Somebody else seems to agree with me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foxfanazer Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 I'm surprised to hear that. Somebody else seems to agree with me! I thought he was initially but replays definitely prove he was on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cc_star Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 To ric, Kitch, cc and Col. I've been going on about this all season and been 'called' on it many a time...... We have no cutting edge up front and it is primarily due to our fairly ridged setup with 2 men up and two wide, it does not suit our players. I'll explain one more time before Babs tells me off, again! We play two men up because it is attacking but Nugent and Vardy are too similar, both work the channels, chase hard and get into decent positions but duplicate each other to a large extent. One of them should lead the line, I would pick Nugent for his experience but either would be fine. Support the frontman with 3 midfielders in attacking positions, any three from Knockeart, Marshall, Dyer, Vardy (Nugent) or even Gallagher. This is your attacking option, get the 3 to play fairly narrow, swap positions and support the front man, ie get your ballplayers in and around the box. If we need a bit more steel in midfield, for a difficult away game for example, replace one of the attacking players with Danns or James, either of whom will naturally track back and help the midfield, but the system remains pretty much the same. Drinkwater and King continue as they have been of late, defensively sound with the occasional forward run, mostly from King. With midfield players in front of them they do not have quite so much to do so should be able to pace themselves better. To my mind it is pointless bringing yet more players when we have not yet come close to getting the best from what we have. I don't disagree with anything you've said But even within the way we are playing there's goals there, if we just gamble on the second ball in the box or around the edge of it, or rather than Drinky/King always spraying it out-wide they play a ball down the channel which would suit both Nugent & Vardy's natural game better than crosses. And whilst what you say is technically sound, there's also quite a risk to change the whole system and risk the considerable amount what is working in our current set-up, where some pretty minor adaptations I've mentioned could reap rewards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Aaaaah mon capitaine..... How do you know it won't work? Come on,be positive..... Sure there probably needs to be some work done, particularly with the 3, making sure they know the limits of their role but none of the players are being asked to do anything the have not done before. I think you are being a bit unkind to Vardy, he has played wide and done well and not playing as an out and out striker might even take a bit of pressure off of him...... But there is nothing to suggest it will work, or solve our wastefulness in front of goal, the problem hasn't been the lack of chances, but our inability to put them away. Against posh: 7 shots, 4 on target, 2 goals, not bad, they were 4/2/0 we had 9 corners. Charlton: Us: 15/6/1 Them: 9/6/2 corners: 4 Blackburn: Us: 12/7/1 Them: 8/4/2 corners: 12 Blackpool: Us: 7/3/1 Them: 6/1/0 corners: 14 We have created the most chances in every game, we have not taken them, there is not much wrong with our attacking play, it is better than the oppositions. What I think we should be working on is our corners, we create so much pressure that we have won 39 corners in 4 games, and average of almost 10 a game, if we can make these count, I think Posh was the only team we scored against with a corner, then we will destroy teams. I would much rather we spent time in training working on corners and set pieces than changing a formation which has dominated some of the best in this league already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Not sure why people constantly question the formation. We've had 4 league games and been the better side in all 4 as well as playing a nice attractive football (even though some think NP is too defensive!!). I can see people then questioning us defensively but we've conceded 4 goals in those games, 3 of hich were terrific strikes so really not sure why the issues. Goals will come if we continue to create You see, this is exactly the sort of comment I find hard to understand..... You see us dominate yet fail to take the points, twice! then dominate Blackpool for an hour and only get the points through a dodgy penalty and you don't seem to think there is an issue. I find that strange..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 You see, this is exactly the sort of comment I find hard to understand..... You see us dominate yet fail to take the points, twice! then dominate Blackpool for an hour and only get the points through a dodgy penalty and you don't seem to think there is an issue. I find that strange..... That, to me, says we need to take our chances. Our build-up play is fine, we seem more dynamic and threatening, but we aren't scoring the goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain... Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 You see, this is exactly the sort of comment I find hard to understand..... You see us dominate yet fail to take the points, twice! then dominate Blackpool for an hour and only get the points through a dodgy penalty and you don't seem to think there is an issue. I find that strange..... The issue is with finishing not creating chances, I don't see how giving players a slightly different role is going to stop Robinson pulling off an outstanding save, Dyer smacking it at Baptiste's head, Beckford completely missing the ball, or Vardy heading straight at the keeper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_lcfc_85 Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 You see, this is exactly the sort of comment I find hard to understand..... You see us dominate yet fail to take the points, twice! then dominate Blackpool for an hour and only get the points through a dodgy penalty and you don't seem to think there is an issue. I find that strange..... No i dont see an issue, i really dont. Not one side in the league has 100% record after 4 games and we're playing well. If our players are giving their all and performances are good then why cant you see that as a positive and that maybe things will happen. Makes me laugh how you mention that we only won with a 'dodgy' pen yet the week before we got robbed blind with an offside decision and you make that a negative too cos we lost. Your a very very difficult man to please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fmfox Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 does anyone know where the post match interviews are? normally they're on the page along with the match report on the bbc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 I don't disagree with anything you've said But even within the way we are playing there's goals there, if we just gamble on the second ball in the box or around the edge of it, or rather than Drinky/King always spraying it out-wide they play a ball down the channel which would suit both Nugent & Vardy's natural game better than crosses. And whilst what you say is technically sound, there's also quite a risk to change the whole system and risk the considerable amount what is working in our current set-up, where some pretty minor adaptations I've mentioned could reap rewards Drinkwater and King play the ball wide because, from deep positions in particular, there are no other options when you play with 2 men up and 2 wide. To play the ball into the channels from deep is little more than hit and hope and not at all what we want. There is no one to contest the second ball for much the same reason, 2 men right forward, 2 wide and a midfield pair having to make up massive amounts of ground to even get there. We need to get our most creative players on the ball in and around the box, they can play team mates in and are on hand to contest the second ball and of course they have to be marked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 That, to me, says we need to take our chances. Our build-up play is fine, we seem more dynamic and threatening, but we aren't scoring the goals. The issue is with finishing not creating chances, I don't see how giving players a slightly different role is going to stop Robinson pulling off an outstanding save, Dyer smacking it at Baptiste's head, Beckford completely missing the ball, or Vardy heading straight at the keeper. Or create better, more clear cut chances....... Accepting that our strikers are not the most clinical, surely it is more profitable to strive to give them more and better chances rather than just hope they will improve and start hitting the net....... We are not getting enough men in and around the opposition box so the opposition always seems to have an extra defender to make that crucial block or tackle, particularly as we tend to play the obvious ball into the box and do so from distance. Get our ball players playing in quick ball from around the edge of the box and the defenders have less time to react or take up covering positions, resulting in better and clearer chances....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corky Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 It is more profitable. As I said earlier in this thread, there are still things to improve on- our finishing is certainly something, and also creating more chances so we can kill off teams from a position of strength. But we're moving in the right direction in the amount of chances we are creating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ric Flair Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 To ric, Kitch, cc and Col. I've been going on about this all season and been 'called' on it many a time...... We have no cutting edge up front and it is primarily due to our fairly ridged setup with 2 men up and two wide, it does not suit our players. I'll explain one more time before Babs tells me off, again! We play two men up because it is attacking but Nugent and Vardy are too similar, both work the channels, chase hard and get into decent positions but duplicate each other to a large extent. One of them should lead the line, I would pick Nugent for his experience but either would be fine. Support the frontman with 3 midfielders in attacking positions, any three from Knockeart, Marshall, Dyer, Vardy (Nugent) or even Gallagher. This is your attacking option, get the 3 to play fairly narrow, swap positions and support the front man, ie get your ballplayers in and around the box. If we need a bit more steel in midfield, for a difficult away game for example, replace one of the attacking players with Danns or James, either of whom will naturally track back and help the midfield, but the system remains pretty much the same. Drinkwater and King continue as they have been of late, defensively sound with the occasional forward run, mostly from King. With midfield players in front of them they do not have quite so much to do so should be able to pace themselves better. To my mind it is pointless bringing yet more players when we have not yet come close to getting the best from what we have. I'm a big advocate of us playing 4-2-3-1 with the squad we have, everything you say I find myself agreeing with in this respect. We'd get far more bodies in the box in this system than in the rigid 4-4-2. Our main hope right now is Lloyd Dyer who gets the majority of the balls in and around the 18 yard box but he's disgustingly bad 95% of the time in this area. Marshall provides countless crosses and set pieces but more often than not they don't lead to a proper effort on goal, it's slim pickings. King often gives us an outlet arriving late in to the box, but you cannot expect him to do this all the while, it's just not possible. Yes, we still create chances but it's so near, yet so far and we could create clearer chances by changing our system. We have the players for it, we need the faith from the manager. Or create better, more clear cut chances....... Accepting that our strikers are not the most clinical, surely it is more profitable to strive to give them more and better chances rather than just hope they will improve and start hitting the net....... We are not getting enough men in and around the opposition box so the opposition always seems to have an extra defender to make that crucial block or tackle, particularly as we tend to play the obvious ball into the box and do so from distance. Get our ball players playing in quick ball from around the edge of the box and the defenders have less time to react or take up covering positions, resulting in better and clearer chances....... Amen to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 But we're moving in the right direction Not good enough!!!! I demand that we give the opposition no chances and that we create and score in every attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marbelladave Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Not good enough!!!! I demand that we give the opposition no chances and that we create and score in every attack. Be enough for me if we looked like we might score from every attack....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burmesefox Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 The way we played was crying out for a big target man. Benny M was crossing in galore but Blackpool were defensively very well organised - we took it to them first half and gave them both barrels but were not strong enough in teheair to make those chances count. Queue Futacs - that would have been my substition. Nooge and Beckford too similar. However, I thought that was a mahoosive performance. We bossed the first half and gave them a couple of sniffs on the break. Second half was still us imo but they came back off the ropes at the end. i would take heart in this as we would have buckeled not so long ago, insted we held firm and put ourselves on the line. Hats off to the lads; against a team as attacking as Blackpool wil resitricted their attacking play to a few chances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babylon Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Be enough for me if we looked like we might score from every attack....... I actually agree with you about Saturdays game, there were no clear cut chances other than Dyers. But I disagreed with the Blackburn game (based on the stream), and the chances I saw in the highlights package of Charlton. We without doubt in my mind created enough to get something from those games, which I think is a positive considering we were away from home against one of the favourites and one promoted club (always tricky). Against Blackburn we scored two good goals (one ruled out). Missed one absolute sitter that was harder to miss that score, and created several I would consider more than a half chance. Same against Charlton we scored one, missed another sitter, one other very good chance and several other half chances spurned. I think we've missed chances what were better opportunities than anything created against us by any team so far. But I think those types of chances will more often than not be scored over the season than they are missed so I won't panic just yet. Of course we can create more, I know where you are coming from, and I'm sure the manager wants to create more. But being 4 games in, having missed two ridiculous chances that I believe would have won us one and drawn the other isn't the worst position to be in. Especially when this team has played together 3 times so far, the link up play will surely improve over time. And with creativity to come into the team when ready in the shape of Knockaert. Plus perhaps another striker to replace my mate when he goes, I think there is more reason to be cheery than not at this moment in time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
indierich06 Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Be enough for me if we looked like we might score from every attack....... Watch the highlights from the second half of the Charlton game and the Blackburn game then... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theessexfox Posted 3 September 2012 Share Posted 3 September 2012 Nobody was offside mate Two of the three were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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