Paul Scholes or Steven Gerrard?

[The Year Of The Fox]

Are you Gerrard's dad or something?

That or just another Liverpool 'fan' on a Leicester forum

[Fox92]

Gerrard shines in average Liverpool teams, Scholes shone in world class utd teams. Scholes everytime for me.

Average?

Around 05/06 time, Liverpool were excellent and won the Champions League and FA Cup... I remember them beating Madrid 4-0 and Villa 5-0 in the space of five days.

They do miss Alonso now, and Gerrard has said this many times.

[Aus Fox]

**** the both of them did anyone see Drinkwater yesterday... Pure class

[Stadt]

**** the both of them did anyone see Drinkwater yesterday... Pure class

[Uncle Albert]

Scholes. Gerrard captaining a team to victory after AC Milan fell asleep in the second half is hardly fantastic.

 

No you're right, getting outplayed by a fantastic AC Milan for 45 minutes and then turning it around to win is hardly fantastic.

 

Do we really have to do this?  these are more pedantic than the Messi vs CR7 threads.

 

Nobody asked you to do anything, helmet.

 

Average?

Around 05/06 time, Liverpool were excellent and won the Champions League and FA Cup... I remember them beating Madrid 4-0 and Villa 5-0 in the space of five days.

They do miss Alonso now, and Gerrard has said this many times.

 

That was 08/09 - the season we should have won the League title, stupid draws at home to Wigan, Fulham, Hull, Stoke and West Ham cost us.

 

In 11 days we beat Real Madrid away 1-0, Man United away 4-1, Real Madrid at home 4-0 and Aston Villa at home 5-0.

[xHamzah]

Scholes, his ability to dictate the game day in day out is amazing.

[Uncle Albert]

Scholes, his ability to dictate the game day in day out is amazing.

 

Brilliant how people only picked up on this after Gary Neville brought it up on MNF.

[lc4lcfc]

Scholes hands down. Growing up he was my favourite player and I tryed to play like him. In the end there was only one thing we shared and that was the ability to tackle. Gerrard is quality but in my mind scholes is the better.

[ousefox]

I'm genuinely shocked Scholes is winning this. Maybe it's because he was still class even in the last couple of years of his career.

 

I think if you asked this question 5 years ago Gerrard would be well ahead. 

[Bobby Hundreds]

I'm genuinely shocked Scholes is winning this. Maybe it's because he was still class even in the last couple of years of his career.

 

I think if you asked this question 5 years ago Gerrard would be well ahead. 

 

Or maybe people have a different opinion to you?

[foxfanazer]

Lampard> Gerrard> Scholes

Many will disagree but thats my opinion

[Uncle Albert]

Not many, everyone will disagree.

[foxfanazer]

Not many, everyone will disagree.

That's fine by me

[GingerrrFox]

Paul Scholes was the most complete midfielder England has produced in the modern era and it is an absolute travesty that he was never fully utilised in the international set up. I mean stuck out on the wing? Purely because he was that good he could play international football there doesn't mean he should have. Gerrard and Lampard are both world class players but Scholes was truely special.

When he began to lose his legs he moulded his game from being an all action midfielder to become a deep lying playmaker of pure brilliance. Gerrard is trying to fill that role now for England and not a slight on him but he is nowhere near Scholes' level.

It's no coincidence that people now refer to players trying to change their game as they get older as doing a "Paul Scholes". If he wanted to he could still play for Man United.

[ScouseFox]

Gerrard at his best was better than Scholes at his best. Better to watch as a neutral (fan when it came to England), too. 

[Uncle Albert]

Funny thing is when everyone says Scholes was stuck on the wing for England that's a complete load of tosh, Euro 2004 was the only tournament England had Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard and it was Gerrard who played from the left.

[GingerrrFox]

Funny thing is when everyone says Scholes was stuck on the wing for England that's a complete load of tosh, Euro 2004 was the only tournament England had Scholes, Gerrard and Lampard and it was Gerrard who played from the left.

Not a chance Scholes played left wing. Watch the games back. It's the main reason he retired from international football.

[Uncle Albert]

Not a chance Scholes played left wing. Watch the games back. It's the main reason he retired from international football.

 

We didn't play with a left winger in that tournament, Scholes played predominantly central, he or Gerrard would go out to the left to cut the winger off, why do you think Ashley Cole was highlighted at being so good against Ronaldo that tournament? Because he had no support off his winger. Not arguing with you mate, I know this was one of the reasons Scholes quit, read the 'Did England accommodate David Beckham' thread.

 

Go on Youtube and you can watch 7 minutes of Scholes v France at Euro 2004, you cant say he was a left winger after watching that.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

I'm genuinely shocked Scholes is winning this. Maybe it's because he was still class even in the last couple of years of his career.

 

I think if you asked this question 5 years ago Gerrard would be well ahead. 

 

This is definitely true.

 

Scholes only became highly rated in recent years due to Spain/Barcelona dominating with Xavi and Iniesta and tiki-taka.

 

If you'd have asked 10 years ago when Scholes was at his peak (age 28) is he a world class midfielder how many people would have said yes?

[GingerrrFox]

We didn't play with a left winger in that tournament, Scholes played predominantly central, he or Gerrard would go out to the left to cut the winger off, why do you think Ashley Cole was highlighted at being so good against Ronaldo that tournament? Because he had no support off his winger. Not arguing with you mate, I know this was one of the reasons Scholes quit, read the 'Did England accommodate David Beckham' thread.

 

Go on Youtube and you can watch 7 minutes of Scholes v France at Euro 2004, you cant say he was a left winger after watching that.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_yak4511DY

 

If you are talking about that video its clear he plays the left hand side of midfield similarly to how Matt Oakley played on the right for us. Narrow, to allow the full back to bomb on past him, but he didn't seem comfortable in the position and only had an influence in the game when he drifted back centrally. It's obvious he was the 1 out of Lampard, Gerrard and himself to play wider and this just didn't suit him at all.

[deanolegend1989]

This was debated on MNF with Cara and Scholes. Listening to both sides, I actually agreed with Gary Neville on alot of points! England with Scholes going wide was 'the easy option' is completely true. Stupid managers, especially in English football, think in midfield you have to be 6ft+ and get stuck in(both of which Schloes was say 5ft 7 and couldnt tackle).

Proven by Spain, smaller agile players with good ball control, brain, vision, creativity and passing technique is more important but easily overlooked by most.(probably the reason england fail all the damn time as consistently were pretty solid defencivly but never set the world alight going forward bar a freak 5-1 away in Germany).

Other things said like why Man U bought Veron was a stupid point by Carra in terms of saying Schloes wasnt good enough...Both Gerrard and Scholes were shoved wide but this was awful decision making by novice managers rather than suggesting the player wasnt good enough!

Gerrard got moved to the right, mainly due to no one good enough to go their but Sissoko/Alonso/Mash all 'capable' so Stevie had to..As above Scholes for England under Erikson was the easy option but again wrong decision. Stevie also got put to the left by Capello in South Africa 2010 because Lamps has to play centre..he still scored vs USA and was are star performer in an awful team performance.

 

I think Scholes was a cracking player and if we had him(Im a pool fan as well as us foxes), we'd of won the league. He was the type we needed(we had one in Alonso and im convinced we would of won the league had Benetez kept him and we bought wisely). Benetez was a poor manager and a flukey CL win helped him stay that long. He bought Garcia and Alonso to be fair which were top class signings and Torres came(he basically said on his armband to come and get him, so any manager would of got him). I feel a better manager would of bought 'consistenly' better and we'd of won the league in that period with Alonso/Gerrard/Torres all in their prime.

 

Anyway moving on, now much as Scholes was a cracking player, and 1 that is 'world class' without a doubt and 1 of the best England has ever produced, Steven Gerrard(and this may sound biast) is IMO 1 of the greatest footballers to ever play the game. You have your Maradona's,Pele's, Cruyffs, Ronaldo's/Messi's, Zidane etc. Stevie G will go down as just behind these.

Unfortunatly, In his prime, IMO had the ability to be in that group of the very best, but due to the fact he hasnt won the world cup, euro's or even a Premier League, despite it being clear why this hasnt happened, it will still be evidence to suggest hes not a top top player(cue Sir Alex). 

He is though a top top top top player and deserves a medal, yet hasnt had good teams(either at international or club level).

 

Now cue Neville, 'I hate doing comparisons'..I agree again, in terms of it will never be proven either way..

Right, clearly both Stevie G & Pauly Scholes were both top class players..but how good will always be a question? The questions of Scholes are would he be able to of won a medal with the Liverpool teams? IMO no but who knows? Would Stevie G won medals at Utd/Chelsea if he left? IMO yes but who knows?

 

Nothing can be truely proved and thats why the debate will have varying views and difference of opinions..however if we had to put them on a scale of 0-10(0 a county league player like me/10 the best  to ever play) Id peg Scholes 8.5 and Gerrard 9..both 'elite' but Gerrard IMO potentially could of been the best..Shooting, passing, energy, tackling, heading, strength, speed(he was deceptivly quick),passion, big game moments etc Gerrard was naturally 1 of the best to ever play.

Scholes was an outstanding player..great vision, controlled a game, good at shooting and short quick passing, very clever..a top player in a great team..

 

I think Scholes reached the highest peak of a career he potentially could make(and what a career it was). Stevie G, whilst still reaching an amazing career, didnt reach as high as his talent deserved..and for me this is what convinces me that Stevie G was the best but could of even been slightly better.

Id love England the win Brazil 2014 with Stevie scoring the winner in the final. Captaining a team who hasnt had a sniff since 1966, scoring the winner in the final, at the twilight of his career(and certainly his England career) would probably put him into 1 of the best to ever play the game. Unfortunatly it wont happen, but thats for me how near potentially he is from the 'truely class' list. Scholes just wouldnt did get to quite the same levels.

 

Both top players though and it was a pleasure to have them both in England shirts(and Liverpool shirt for Stevie). Great Debate.

[Pride_Of_The_Midlands]

PFA Team of the Year

Gerrard - 8 (2000-01, 2003-04, 2004-05, 2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2013-14)

Scholes - 2 (2002-03 & 2006-07)

 

No contest.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

If we're talking stats aren't medals more important than getting in an imaginary team? Between Scholes and Bergkamp for which is the best player I've ever seen with my own eyes. Just because you don't see Paul Scholes beating up DJ's and having his wife paraded around crap newspapers doesn't mean he wasn't a cracking player. Comfortably the best English player in the last 20+ years. I remember Thierry Henry saying something along the lines of if he was a personality off the pitch and took in the limelight like a lot do, he'd of won player of the year a few times. Zidane and the votes on this page say Scholes. enough for me, much like the man himself, most the comments are lording over Gerrard where those who voted Scholes just come and vote then fvck off. Yes I've bucked the trend. Scholes a class above all and sundry.

[Grandad.]

Gerrard hasn't been won personal awards because he is in the public eye, he has won them because he has been arguably the best central midfielder the Premier League has ever seen. 

 

14 years of playing in an average side and has constantly been one of the best players in the league, 14 seasons have gone past and he has made it into the PFA Team of the Year eight times, you say Henry said this and Zidane said that.. People voting for PFA Team of the Year are players who have played against Steven Gerrard all season, the majority of fellow pros are putting Gerrard in their team of the year, to have that eight times is some achievement. Also won PFA Player of the Year, that is some award to win. 

 

Look I'm not getting into a massive debate about Scholes and Gerrard, I started this thread for Christ sake and I said Scholes was world class. I just don't think Scholes would have had the same impact he did at United if he was playing in the same sides that Gerrard had to play with at Liverpool. Gerrard for me is the more complete footballer, as midfielders go I think Yaya Toure is the only comparable midfielder to Gerrard. 

 

Midfielders can usually only play one or two roles in their game, Steven Gerrard can play every midfield role there is and he has done to the highest of standards, look at this season, playing the deep holding role. Started his career as a ball winner, then became a box to box midfielder, then he was on the right under Benitez, played on the left for England, was a number 10 in 08/09, back to box to box and now he is controlling games from a deep lying position. An incredible footballer. 

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Yeah but you've got a big fat picture of a dickhead playing for Liverpool under your posts. So doubt the opinion is unbiased. If Scholes played for Liverpool they'd of won the league at least once in the last 20 years.