davieG Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 ....for the modern family. Obviously Water Basic Foods Shelter Heating Basic clothing Travel to work and school Dentistry Assuming general medical care is still free. Hope I've not missed anything gallingly obvious. is that it or would you add more and should they be included in measuring poverty or whether both parents 'need' to work? It just seems to me that entertainment (TV, Electronic games etc) mobile phones, holidays, takeaways, eating out, etc seem to be classed as essentials by some these days. Are they?
Jon the Hat Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Of course they aren't, but they have somehow become the norm. The question I think is around whether it is a good thing for society to have people limited to those things for extended periods, or whether that by default causes crime. It is human nature to want more. It is all very well just existing for a few months, but imagine that for 40 years. A safety net should cover only the basics, but there has to be investment in making sure people only need the safety net for maximum a year.
Alf Bentley Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 You're close to highlighting the difference between absolute poverty and relative poverty, Davie. Many people do measure their success/contentment against others to some extent. Hence why massive inequalities cause problems, even if poorer people are well off compared to people in absolute poverty in the under-developed world. I've had extended stints when I've lived on very little, with no access to TV or other goodies, for months, even a few years. It didn't bother me as I was using my time productively and enjoyably (studying, travelling, living on low wages but going to gigs/films twice a week). To be fair, I always seemed to find enough for a few drinks per week, and had access to music and books. As a society, I wish we'd move away a bit from lives based on material "standard of living" towards less tangible "quality of life" (good company, leisure time, appreciating the world around us, enjoying music, books, art, sex, whatever...). Hard to explain to a child, though, that they can't have a holiday, Playstation, TV, I-Pod etc, when many of their friends have that. Though, it should be done sometimes - part of the learning process. Naturally, advertisers play on all this - enticing children to demand goodies, and to end up feeling entitled to them, if the parents feel the need to "keep up with the Joneses" all the time...
Rincewind Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Interesting topic. Often crops up at meetings with colleagues. Some might say the internet as most things like bill paying is done online. There has to be some form of entertainment. Sitting in a bedsit every night staring at four walls becomes a little boring after a few years, but saying that to budget right you have to forgo a lot of things. I would say socialising is essential even if its a local community centre for afternoon tea. I'm talking about older people. DNO has one training program Tenancy Training which advises those moving into their first flat house etc after leaving a hostel etc. on how to set up and things that they will need. A TV is not on the list nor are Xboxes etc.
MooseBreath Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 I think BT are obliged to provide a telephone line. People don't need internet in their houses as long as it is available in local libraries.
Ross-Kemp Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 People these days believe cable tv, broadband, a smart phone and fags and booze are essential. Therein lies the problem. Anyone that doesn't work should not have any of the above.
Finnegan Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 I'd like to think that a little distraction / amusement can and should be considered a basic need. I've no problem with my taxes being claimed by benefit claimants (purely as an example) to pay for their TV licence or internet service provider. They might not be essential to keep someone alive but without any joy or entertainment you're looking at a slippery slope to a pretty miserable existence. Widescreen TVs, PlayStations, cigarettes, alcohol, holidays to Ibiza and high end gadgets are definitely not essentials, however.
Samilktray Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Luxury sweatpants are the only essentials I need.
Captain... Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 People these days believe cable tv, broadband, a smart phone and fags and booze are essential. Therein lies the problem. Anyone that doesn't work should not have any of the above. Do they? I don't see anyone on here saying that, and whilst I have my doubts about some of them, I'm pretty sure most class as people.
leicsmac Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 I'm with Finn here. Basic entertainment in the form of a TV with Freeview, and an internet connection for the purposes of education, entertainment and job hunting (if required). Anything more than that is a luxury. I of course despise the Protestant Work Ethic and the ingrained idea that people have to somehow justify their existence by working continuously, but that's a discussion for another thread.
Parafox Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 JEEEEz.. Yet another thread for people to bang on about benefit claimants and their undeserved materialstic possessions.
ADK Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Essentials for me would be: Healthy Food Water Shelter Heating Cooking Facilities Washing Machine Bathroom with Toilet and Shower Basic Toiletries Basic Access to Leisure Basic Access to Transport Internet connection and SmartPhone Basic Clothing Access to Healthcare and Dentistry JEEEEz.. Yet another thread for people to bang on about benefit claimants and their undeserved materialstic possessions. True, I do find it an interesting discussion, more because I'm very much not materialistic myself.
Rincewind Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 A sense of worth and value within society then progress from there.
Captain... Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 I think the more interesting question is once you have all the basics covered, what is your priority when it comes to your disposable income? My non essential wants, I would prioritise at the internet, my phone, and paying a bit extra for good quality and ethically sourced food and not buying just cheapest basics. Then it would be leisure time, going out, beer, football etc.
ADK Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 My non essential wants: (Not prioritised) Own transport. Own house. Ability to choose from a wider range of leisure activities. Private medical insurance. Enough money to afford multiple European holidays and the occasional further trip. Enough money to raise 2-3 children comfortably.
davieG Posted 16 January 2014 Author Posted 16 January 2014 Interesting topic. Often crops up at meetings with colleagues. Some might say the internet as most things like bill paying is done online. There has to be some form of entertainment. Sitting in a bedsit every night staring at four walls becomes a little boring after a few years, but saying that to budget right you have to forgo a lot of things. I would say socialising is essential even if its a local community centre for afternoon tea. I'm talking about older people. DNO has one training program Tenancy Training which advises those moving into their first flat house etc after leaving a hostel etc. on how to set up and things that they will need. A TV is not on the list nor are Xboxes etc. Library Books are free. JEEEEz.. Yet another thread for people to bang on about benefit claimants and their undeserved materialstic possessions. Not at all, I wanted to find out how much agreement/disagreement there was on the essentials rather than the basics for 'modern life.' Plenty of 'well off' families not on benefits with both parents working including my Kids say they both need to work for the essentials for them and their children which often means exotic holidays to far off destinations, eating out at fancy restaurants, ballet lessons for kids etc. When I compare this to my family life where we raised 3 children through the 70/80s holidays were camping in a 2nd hand tent, 2nd hand TV and washing m/c etc but then my wife stayed at home through that time. Both parents working now seems to be the norm and is actively encourage and is financially incentivised (sp) by governments. Although I see via my family the financial benefits from both working I also the see increasing strain it puts on them trying to maintain this lifestyle which requires a fair amount of support from grandparents, not that this bothers me personally as i'm always glad to help. just me thinking aloud.
Captain... Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Library Books are free. Not at all, I wanted to find out how much agreement/disagreement there was on the essentials rather than the basics for 'modern life.' Plenty of 'well off' families not on benefits with both parents working including my Kids say they both need to work for the essentials for them and their children which often means exotic holidays to far off destinations, eating out at fancy restaurants, ballet lessons for kids etc. When I compare this to my family life where we raised 3 children through the 70/80s holidays were camping in a 2nd hand tent, 2nd hand TV and washing m/c etc but then my wife stayed at home through that time. Both parents working now seems to be the norm and is actively encourage and is financially incentivised (sp) by governments. Although I see via my family the financial benefits from both working I also the see increasing strain it puts on them trying to maintain this lifestyle which requires a fair amount of support from grandparents, not that this bothers me personally as i'm always glad to help. just me thinking aloud. It doesn't matter how well intentioned the thread, you know every thread tends towards benefits and bankers, almost without exception.
davieG Posted 16 January 2014 Author Posted 16 January 2014 It doesn't matter how well intentioned the thread, you know every thread tends towards benefits and bankers, almost without exception. Perhaps those that are obsessed with benefits should be given the benefit of the doubt then.
Rincewind Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 You cannot apply for jobs with linear books although they do have internet access within limits. To be first to apply you need a phone and a lot of bill paying and services are through the net. The Gov wants to encourage new technology yet the net is inaccessible or unknown to many.
Guest MattP Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Bed, clothes, food, roof. If you have that you are doing better than most people in the World.
Charl91 Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Bed, clothes, food, roof. If you have that you are doing better than most people in the World. And healthcare. Other than that, I agree. There's still free stuff to do in public. Go and like, make friends or something.
Bayfox Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Water is my biggest gripe. Gas, electric etc fine they have to be produced fed to our houses etc. but water ffs it was here before us was a clean, natural resource then we made it messy and some ****er worked out how to clean it up!!! And gets to charge us for the privilege. How can you own water!!! Now granted it may not be quite that simplistic but really. It should be the one thing the government at least own and be part of our taxes at worst.
MooseBreath Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Water is my biggest gripe. Gas, electric etc fine they have to be produced fed to our houses etc. but water ffs it was here before us was a clean, natural resource then we made it messy and some ****er worked out how to clean it up!!! And gets to charge us for the privilege. How can you own water!!! Now granted it may not be quite that simplistic but really. It should be the one thing the government at least own and be part of our taxes at worst. Most of a water bill is for sewage to be fair. You could probably live quite happily collecting water from a local stream or something (and you can if you want to), but I'm not sure you'd want to deal with your own shit.
Trav Le Bleu Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Essentials for me would be: Healthy Food Water Shelter Heating Cooking Facilities Washing Machine Bathroom with Toilet and Shower Basic Toiletries Basic Access to Leisure Basic Access to Transport Internet connection and SmartPhone Basic Clothing Access to Healthcare and Dentistry True, I do find it an interesting discussion, more because I'm very much not materialistic myself. You can survive without internet and smartphone... I did it for about 30 years
AoWW Posted 16 January 2014 Posted 16 January 2014 Food from M&S. Regular manicures/pedicures and massages. Highlights and lowlights. Designer shoes and bags. Wine.
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.