Conspiracy Theories

[Legend_in_blue]

Titanic was actually the Olympic. They switched the names while both were in dock and as they failed to get the compensation for the damage caused by another vessel on Olympic planned a staged sinking of the Titanic - which was really the Olympic. This is apparently made all the more believable as on the wreck itself is another bulkhead used to repair the damage to the Olympic - this was not on the original Titanic blueprint.

True?

No idea but it was on NatGeo earlier last week.

[OzFox]

The collapse of WTC buildings is just one reason to doubt the official government conspiracy theory ( the official story is just a conspiracy theory too )

1. Destruction proceeds through the path of greatest resistance at nearly

free-fall acceleration

2. Improbable symmetry of debris distribution

3. Extremely rapid onset of destruction

4. Over 100 first responders reported explosions and flashes

5. Multi-ton steel sections ejected laterally

6. Mid-air pulverization of 90,000 tons of concrete & metal decking

7. Massive volume of expanding pyroclastic-like clouds

8. 1200-foot-dia. debris field: no "pancaked" floors found

9. Isolated explosive ejections 20 – 40 stories below demolition front

10. Total building destruction: dismemberment of steel frame

11. Several tons of molten metal found under all 3 high-rises

12. Evidence of thermite incendiaries found by FEMA in steel samples

13. Evidence of explosives found in dust samples

14. No precedent for steel-framed high-rise collapse due to fire

Just closely watch the collapse of of the buildings via the many youtube videos a few times and you will see these chartacteristics displayed .

These characteristics are only possible during a "contolled demolition" and is more than enough reason to doubt the official story

But i feel as though i've gone over this time and time again and will just accept that peple can believe what they choose to believe or what their paradigmatic mindset will allow .So I'll bow out

edit;to demonstrate

If you take a walk in the countryside and see a clump of trees you may think they are there by accident or design.

If the trees are all pear trees you may still think they are there by accident or design but design and planning is looking likely.

If the pear trees are all arranged in straight lines you may still think that they are there by accident or design but design and planning is looking increasingly likely if not certain.

If the pear trees are all arranged in straight lines and set equidistant apart then they are pretty well certain to be there by design and planning of human hand.

This demonstrates that if a number of characteristics of planning and design are shown, then it is almost certain that planning and design was used, and are not random events.

As such the evidence for controlled demolition in the WTC is there.

There are at least 14 characteristics of controlled demolition that do no appear in any random collapses

Can't we just merge this with the 35 page thread from last year? Would save everyone a lot of trouble.

Babylon's probably about to blow his brains out

[Zingari]

Can't we just merge this with the 35 page thread from last year? Would save everyone a lot of trouble.

Babylon's probably about to blow his brains out

It does get a bit repetitive don't it ?

I'll let it drop for now ,

At least until Empty comes back

[OzFox]

It does get a bit repetitive don't it ?

I'll let it drop for now ,

At least until Empty comes back

Don't tell him. He'd spontaneously combust in here.

[Steven]

If Governments did not routinely lie then there would be no conspiracy theories.

[Trav Le Bleu]

.

Screw that, stupid date anyway

[I am Rod Hull]

.

Screw that, stupid date anyway

+1

Dicked

[Trav Le Bleu]

+1

Dicked

Aha, my cheap attempt at getting a rep point worked!

Even though I was completely off and was thinking of 9/11 - though I'm still not sure what happened on the 9th of November.

[Daggers]

There is something severely not right about the chocolate wars threads - Empty, tell me what Youtube is saying about it...I need to know what the flip is really going on.

[Zingari]

There is something severely not right about the chocolate wars threads - Empty, tell me what Youtube is saying about it...I need to know what the flip is really going on.

He can’t hear you,he's been tortured at Guantanamo and he’s had a peanut forced into each of his ears.

Any idea how we can get them out?

[The Doctor]

He can’t hear you,he's been tortured at Guantanamo and he’s had a peanut forced into each of his ears.

Any idea how we can get them out?

We'd need a lot of elephants and ninjas. Possibly a few hybrids of the two.

[Danizen]

Less exciting than 9/11 an anti-semitism, I think the aftermath of Ayrton Senna's death is a massive cover up.Willams F1 are guilty of manslaughter and should have been punished as such. He should have never been allowed to race after the dodgy work they did on his steering column (info here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Ayrton_Senna) and the fact the footage cuts out a couple of seconds before the crash make it look even worse. I believe the steering wheel came off in his hands.

[OzFox]

The assassination of JFK was a massive conspiracy without any doubt .

Maybe you could explain this, because I've never seen it mentioned anywhere else

This is the plinth that Abraham Zapruder apparently stood on when he filmed the assassination:

If you go to Dallas and stand in that spot, or anywhere else on the plinth, a simple glance to your right gives you a direct view behind the picket fence. I know this because I've done it myself. There is no way that Zapruder wouldn't have seen someone setting up and firing a rifle just 20-30m away. He would at the very least have heard it. He could even have filmed the shooter, seeing as he had a camera in his hands. Same goes for other people near the plinth, and on the overpass. They all would have a clear view behind the picket fence.

And before you mention foliage, there's only a couple of trees and even back then they were above the level of the fence and not blocking the view. The fence today has the same dimensions as it did back then.

I put it to you that the reason Zapruder and others didn't notice someone firing a rifle right next to them, was because there was no-one firing a rifle right next to them, and that the only shots came from the TSB as reported by most witnesses

As a JFK expert, I'd be curious to hear your take on this. Over to you, Oliver

[Zingari]

Blimey OZ, even the house select committee on assassinations stopped trying to push that shite in 79 Mainly because the flippin evidence was so overwhelming that there were other shots

Conclusions regarding the JFK assassination

The HSCA concluded in its 1979 report that:

• Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
  
• Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that at least two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
  
• The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
  
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    

  [*]Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. The conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive.

The Committee further concluded that it was probable that:

• four shots were fired
  
• the third shot came from a second assassin located on the grassy knoll, but missed. They concluded that it missed due to the lack of physical evidence of an actual bullet, of course this investigation took place almost sixteen years after the crime.
  

[OzFox]

Blimey OZ, even the house select committee on assassinations stopped trying to push that shite in 79

Conclusions regarding the JFK assassination

The HSCA concluded in its 1979 report that:

• Lee Harvey Oswald fired three shots at President John F. Kennedy. The second and third shots he fired struck the President. The third shot he fired killed the President.
  
• Scientific acoustical evidence establishes a high probability that at least two gunmen fired at President John F. Kennedy. Other scientific evidence does not preclude the possibility of two gunmen firing at the President. Scientific evidence negates some specific conspiracy allegations.
  
• The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that President John F. Kennedy was probably assassinated as a result of a conspiracy. The committee was unable to identify the other gunmen or the extent of the conspiracy.
  
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Soviet Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Cuban Government was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that anti-Castro Cuban groups, as groups, were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the national syndicate of organized crime, as a group, was not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy, but that the available evidence does not preclude the possibility that individual members may have been involved.
    
  • The committee believes, on the basis of the evidence available to it, that the Secret Service, Federal Bureau of Investigation, and Central Intelligence Agency were not involved in the assassination of President Kennedy.
    

  [*]Agencies and departments of the U.S. Government performed with varying degrees of competency in the fulfilment of their duties. President John F. Kennedy did not receive adequate protection. A thorough and reliable investigation into the responsibility of Lee Harvey Oswald for the assassination was conducted. The investigation into the possibility of conspiracy in the assassination was inadequate. The conclusions of the investigations were arrived at in good faith, but presented in a fashion that was too definitive.

The Committee further concluded that it was probable that:

• four shots were fired
  
• the third shot came from a second assassin located on the grassy knoll, but missed. They concluded that it missed due to the lack of physical evidence of an actual bullet, of course this investigation took place almost sixteen years after the crime.
  

Well the HSCA clearly never went and stood on the bloody plinth then did they?

It was the first thing I noticed when I went to the site. Seems glaringly obvious to me, and yet I've never seen it mentioned or discussed anywhere

[Zingari]

Assistant Press Secretary Malcolm Kilduff announces the death of President Kennedy and attribute it to a frontal shot in the brain.describing the wound in the manner that the doctors had just informed him.

back and to the left ...back and to the left........ back and to the left ..............back and to the left ?

doesn't that make more sense than a shot from the rear ?

[OzFox]

Assistant Press Secretary Malcolm Kilduff announces the death of President Kennedy and attribute it to a frontal shot in the brain.describing the wound in the manner that the doctors had just informed him.

back and to the left ...back and to the left........ back and to the left ..............back and to the left ?

doesn't that make more sense than a shot from the rear ?

Still doesn't answer my simple question though does it?

And as to "back and to the left", explain these:

It's supposed to prove that Kennedy was hit in the head by a shot from the Grassy Knoll. You know, the movement of his head back and to the left in the Zapruder film. But in fact, it's perfectly possible for an object hit by a bullet to move in the direction from which the bullet came. Richard Trott demonstrates this by shooting melons. Here is his first melon, and here is his second. This "jet effect" phenomenon was first suggested, and experimentally demonstrated by physicist Luis Alvarez. Trott shows that the average citizen with a rifle can recreate the effect.

Dr. John Lattimer reproduced Alvarez' results with human skulls, and with a rifle and ammunition identical to those Oswald used. Clicking on the image at right will download a video clip of one of Lattimer's shooting experiments.

Experts in forensics and wound ballistics are not impressed with the idea that a bullet from the Grassy Knoll could have driven Kennedy's head back and to the left. That's just not the way it works. Here are two essays dealing with this issue from researcher Joel Grant:

• A compilation of expert witness testimony, including seldom-seen testimony before the Rockefeller Commission.
  
• An interview with ballistics expert Duncan MacPherson, a rocket scientist (literally) who has done innovative work computer modelling the effects of bullet strikes on the human body.
  

Cyril Wecht is a forensic pathologist who believes that Kennedy's "back and to the left" motion indicates a shot from the Grassy Knoll. But when called as a expert witness in the Menendez

retrial, he insisted that simple Newtonian physics isn't much use in determining how people will react to a shot.

And we have a scholarly article in the International Journal of Legal Medicine (Volume 109, Number 23) titled "On the physics of momentum in ballistics: Can the human body be displaced or knocked down by a small arms projectile?" It says:

"Shooting incidents are often portrayed as resulting in a sometimes violent backwards displacement of the victim. This opinion is also not infrequently held by expert witnesses. The physical force responsible for this would be momentum (mass x velocity). The physics of momentum in ballistic injury is explained in detail. The maximum momentum transferred from different small arms projectiles including large calibre rifles and a 12-gauge shotgun only results in a backwards motion of a 80 kg target body of 0.01–0.18 m/s, which is negligible compared to the velocity of a pedestrian (1–2 m/s). Furthermore, counterbalance is constantly maintained by neurophysiological reflexes. So the effect of the momentum transferred from the missile is virtually zero and there is no backwards motion of the person shot. Empirical evidence verifying these calculations can be obtained from hunting big game, from human gunshot victims and from a video documentary demonstrating the lack of any backwards motion of a person wearing body armour after hits from a centre fire rifle. So the alleged backwards hurling of a person shot is nothing but a myth which should be refuted not only because it is incorrect but also because it can result in miscarriages of justice."

The TV show "Mythbusters" addressed this issue, not in the context of the assassination, but in the context of cheesy Hollywood stunts. Their finding:

.

Another explanation for Kennedy's backward jerk after the head shot is a neuromuscular spasm. The House Select Committee decided that this was the key factor after watching an experiment where a goat was shot in the head. Clicking on the goat image at right, above will download the video clip that the Committee saw. Again, this is in Real Media format (see above).

[OzFox]

Come on Zingari old chap, it's not like you to turn down a conspiracy challenge.

I'm starting to think you're "doing an Empty" and heading for the hills when the going gets tricky. At least have a pop. You could say the scientists and the melons were in the employ of the US government and that the goat was faking.

[ozleicester]

first empty goes missing, Now Zingari?

Be afraid people of Earth

[Zingari]

Come on Zingari old chap, it's not like you to turn down a conspiracy challenge.

I'm starting to think you're "doing an Empty" and heading for the hills when the going gets tricky. At least have a pop. You could say the scientists and the melons were in the employ of the US government and that the goat was faking.

I’m not having a go at you here Oz so don’t take any offence , but I’ve heard all that mumbo jumbo science( the kind that proves butterflies could cause hurricanes or elephants can hang from a cliff by it’s tail holding on to a daisy ) , and myth buster bollox , and tethered goat crap, and magic bullet shite , so often that I’ve just got a bit tired of it now .

The fact is that none of it really fits in with the known facts and common sense observations.

Just watch the Zapruder film , it’s fookin obvious he’s been shot from the front and it’s fookin obvious that he and Connelly were hit by two different bullets ( his own testimony and that of Nellie Connelly confirms this )

Two different bullets in that time span( from wherever ) = two different rifles = conspiracy.

Jackie clambering onto the boot of the car picking up a piece of JFK’s brain that had been blasted backwards and the police motor cyclist riding behind splattered in blood indicates a shot from the front , as does the scores of people running up the hill to were they heard or saw the shots .

Just listen to any of the freely available testimonies of the doctors in trauma room 1 at Parklands (Crenshaw ,Perry etc nurses etc and Paul O’Connor etc who put the body into the casket ) and they all say the rear of the skull was blasted “away” as an exit wound ( and many other things that indicate shots from the front ).Malcolm Kilduff in the press conference is obviously indicating what the doctors had just told him.

These are doctors that have operated on many gunshot wound victims unlike the doctor at Bathesda ( Humes) that had never done an autopsy in his life.Suspicious ?

Some choice to make for the most important autopsy ever don’t you think ?

Sorry Oz, but I’m pretty sure that I’ll never convince you and I’m absolutely certain that you’ll never convince me . Kennedy was killed by a massive conspiracy and what followed was a massive cover up.And i'm sure one day the truth will out , but i can only hope it will be in our lifetime.

Try listening to actual testimonies and try watching actual film footage and judge for yourself rather than falling for that old scientific flim flam

[OzFox]

I’m not having a go at you here Oz so don’t take any offence , but I’ve heard all that mumbo jumbo science( the kind that proves butterflies could cause hurricanes or elephants can hang from a cliff by it’s tail holding on to a daisy ) , and myth buster bollox , and tethered goat crap, and magic bullet shite , so often that I’ve just got a bit tired of it now .

The fact is that none of it really fits in with the known facts and common sense observations.

Just watch the Zapruder film , it’s fookin obvious he’s been shot from the front and it’s fookin obvious that he and Connelly were hit by two different bullets ( his own testimony and that of Nellie Connelly confirms this )

Two different bullets in that time span( from wherever ) = two different rifles = conspiracy.

Jackie clambering onto the boot of the car picking up a piece of JFK’s brain that had been blasted backwards and the police motor cyclist riding behind splattered in blood indicates a shot from the front , as does the scores of people running up the hill to were they heard or saw the shots .

Just listen to any of the freely available testimonies of the doctors in trauma room 1 at Parklands (Crenshaw ,Perry etc nurses etc and Paul O’Connor etc who put the body into the casket ) and they all say the rear of the skull was blasted “away” as an exit wound ( and many other things that indicate shots from the front ).Malcolm Kilduff in the press conference is obviously indicating what the doctors had just told him.

These are doctors that have operated on many gunshot wound victims unlike the doctor at Bathesda ( Humes) that had never done an autopsy in his life.Suspicious ?

Some choice to make for the most important autopsy ever don’t you think ?

Sorry Oz, but I’m pretty sure that I’ll never convince you and I’m absolutely certain that you’ll never convince me . Kennedy was killed by a massive conspiracy and what followed was a massive cover up.And i'm sure one day the truth will out , but i can only hope it will be in our lifetime.

Try listening to actual testimonies and try watching actual film footage and judge for yourself rather than falling for that old scientific flim flam

Thank God, I was getting worried there for a minute.

It's not mumbo jumbo science, it's science and common sense. It's not at all obvious he was shot from the front, and the magic bullet has been explained to death. The hospital stuff is often misquoted and selective. The actual testimonies suggest shots from the book depository and probably a lone gunman. In other words no, I'm not convinced.

Would still like an answer to my orginal query. I was hoping you might be able to provide it for me, but now I'm doomed to trawl conspiracy websites for all eternity in my search for an answer

[Zingari]

Thank God, I was getting worried there for a minute.

It's not mumbo jumbo science, it's science and common sense. It's not at all obvious he was shot from the front, and the magic bullet has been explained to death. The hospital stuff is often misquoted and selective. The actual testimonies suggest shots from the book depository and probably a lone gunman. In other words no, I'm not convinced.

Would still like an answer to my orginal query. I was hoping you might be able to provide it for me, but now I'm doomed to trawl conspiracy websites for all eternity in my search for an answer

If your original query is “why didn’t AZ notice another shooter behind him , then the simple answer to that is that he would have been looking in totally the opposite direction as is surely quite obvious by his film footage .

He also suffered badly with vertigo and needed to be steadied from behind by his secretary so presumably he wasn’t swivelling around looking for other things while he was concentrating on capturing the film footage that he had set out to get .

[Rincewind]

I have heard loads of conspiracy theories. They make good stories and films.

http://ken-duddle-creative-writing.weebly.com/

[Babylon]

It's not mumbo jumbo science, it's science and common sense.

It's mumbo jumbo science when it doesn't fit in with what he WANTS to believe.

[Zingari]

okay okay

JFK was killed by a lone nut assassin and it all happened just the way they said it did. ............and they all lived happily ever after .