The Ultras Thread

[MC Prussian]

Not particularly Ultra, but impressive nonetheless - Borussia Mönchengladbach's peaceful fan march consisting of about 6'000 people from the Berne city centre to the YB stadium:

 

[AndWhat?]

BMG love taking over towns in Europe!

[Voll Blau]

Amazing as ever from Dynamo Dresden in their Cup win over Red Bull Leipzig (the MK Dons of Germany)...

 

 

 

 

[MC Prussian]

20 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Amazing as ever from Dynamo Dresden in their Cup win over Red Bull Leipzig (the MK Dons of Germany)...

I agree with the general notion, but Leipzig made all their way up from the fifth tier in the German league pyramid, whereas MK Dons were automatically placed in League One and have hardly ever progressed since - in fact, I'd call their twelve-year existence a state of constant stagnation (yes, how's that for a tautology?).

[Voll Blau]

27 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

I agree with the general notion, but Leipzig made all their way up from the fifth tier in the German league pyramid, whereas MK Dons were automatically placed in League One and have hardly ever progressed since - in fact, I'd call their twelve-year existence a state of constant stagnation (yes, how's that for a tautology?).

Yeah, I didn't really mean it in any literal sense. Just in terms of the way they're viewed by fans of other clubs across Germany.

[AndWhat?]

Thought I'd post a bit of info about our 3 Champions League opponents  in case anyone is interested.

 

 

FC Brugge - Blue Army

 

Couldn't really find a lot out about Brugge Ultras, I'm not even sure if the group they have there would even call them selves ultras.

 

Their scene seems to be a mix between our casual scene and the European Ultras Scene.  Get the impression from having a look online that their fans are seen as quite shit in Belgium so not expecting anything amazing from them. 

 

 

FC Porto - Super Dragons and Colectivo

 

Have found info on a couple of groups at Porto. Super Dragons are quite an old group, dating back to 1986, which in Ultras terms in historic. 

 

I think (after a very quick bit of research) that Colectivo were initially set up by members of Super Dragons who wanted to go in a different direction and at first moved to another part of the stadium. It looks like they are back together now in the same part of the ground but not 100%

 

 

 

 

FC Copenhagen - Urban Crew

 

The whole scene in Scandinavia is just awesome. Some of the best ultras in the world come from Sweden and Denmark. 

 

Urban Crew seemed to have had a lot of trouble in the past with their club, even being banned for a while. It also seems that the word 'Ultras' is banned from flags, scarfs t shirts etc in their stadium. 

 

Out of the 3 we are playing I am most looking forward to seeing these guys. 

 

 

 

Bonus: Video of one of my favourite ever tifos which was done by Copenhagen Ultras a couple years ago

 

 

 

 

Edited 31 August 2016 by AndWhat?

[Voll Blau]

I think all three will bring their A game to Leicester in their own way. Foreign mobs love taking the piss in England because our fans would rather gawp and film what they're doing on their phones than try and outdo them.

[bovril]

On 23.08.2016 г. at 10:13, MC Prussian said:

I agree with the general notion, but Leipzig made all their way up from the fifth tier in the German league pyramid, whereas MK Dons were automatically placed in League One and have hardly ever progressed since - in fact, I'd call their twelve-year existence a state of constant stagnation (yes, how's that for a tautology?).

Don't wish to be pedantic but no they weren't. They were relegated there in 2005 after spending several years in the top 2 divisions.

[Bilo]

I imagine all three will travel well too, for exactly the same reasons as we'll take good numbers to all three group games. 

 

VB's right about the fan reactions, just look what happened when the Italians came over for the Everton game - probably the most YouTubed group of people in our city's history!

[AndWhat?]

2 minutes ago, bovril said:

Don't wish to be pedantic but no they weren't. They were relegated there in 2005 after spending several years in the top 2 divisions.

 

Think you're getting your Dons mixed up mate!

[bovril]

Just now, AndWhat? said:

 

Think you're getting your Dons mixed up mate!

I may be and I'm not an expert on this, but as far as I understand MK Dons weren't 'placed' in league 1. I thought at the time they were the same club, just re-branded.

[AndWhat?]

Just now, bovril said:

I may be and I'm not an expert on this, but as far as I understand MK Dons weren't 'placed' in league 1. I thought at the time they were the same club, just re-branded.

 

That's where the argument starts! Most people see them as 2 different clubs, and if MK Dons were a new club (they were) then they should have started at the bottom of the pyramid like everyone else. 

[SemperEadem]

Strong pyro display from Gladbach at Celtic.

[Voll Blau]

Rappers from different German teams united to produce an anti-Red Bull Leipzig song. 

 

Fans involved from Dortmund, Bochum, Hertha Berlin, Dresden, Cottbus, Rot-Weiss Essen and others.

 

 

Edited 23 October 2016 by Voll Blau

[Finnegan]

On 31/08/2016 at 16:48, bovril said:

I may be and I'm not an expert on this, but as far as I understand MK Dons weren't 'placed' in league 1. I thought at the time they were the same club, just re-branded.

 

On 31/08/2016 at 16:50, AndWhat? said:

 

That's where the argument starts! Most people see them as 2 different clubs, and if MK Dons were a new club (they were) then they should have started at the bottom of the pyramid like everyone else. 

 

Bovril is correct. Obviously, spiritually, it's not the same club really is it? But legally they just moved and changed their name.

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, Voll Blau said:

Rappers from different German teams united to produce an anti-Red Bull Leipzig song. 

 

Fans involved from Dortmund, Bochum, Hertha Berlin, Dresden, Cottbus, Rot-Weiss Essen and others.

 

 

The idea per se is a good one, but the execution leaves me highly disappointed.

It's basically a video that celebrates violence against RB Leipzig fans, legitimizing it in the process.

Whatever you may think of the Red Bull club, that's the wrong way of going about it. Something humorous/witty would've been way better and way more effective.

 

Fed up with this White Man Gangsta Rap trash.

[C-man]

Good article from the Guardian.

 

Quote

Look out! The ultras are coming. Well, not quite. And definitely not those ones – although it depends on what your definition of an ultra is – but there are moves afoot in Britain to try to adopt a culture of support which often appears to be more misunderstood than Mario Balotelli.

Whenever stories about European ultras penetrate British media they invariably come dripping with negative connotations of the fans involved: extreme violence, racist chanting, threats against players and other such depressing accounts that help portray these groups as a repugnant, often entitled, subculture within football.

So, yes, it is clear ultras have an image problem. Very rarely do we hear the stories about the cuddly types, such as those who build links with different ethnic groups within their club’s local community or the good work, such as that carried out by Bayern Munich fans, in which they organise trips to Auschwitz to highlight the club’s Jewish history. But stories of do-goodery do not fit the stereotypical narrative of the ultra as the tooled-up smashing machine.

But there are ultras already walking among us, Crystal Palace’s Holmesdale Fanatics who, while not carrying the moniker ultras in their title (see above for why), are rightly praised for the noise and colour they bring to games. Their corner of Selhurst Park is an incessantly vibrant, effervescent antidote to the caravan-tradeshow atmosphere that is the norm for long periods of matches at many British stadiums, particularly in the Premier League. They also rally behind supporter issues brought about by the commercialisation of football.

There have been attempts among followers of other British clubs to import a culture which at its heart is about intense organised backing of your team through colourful displays and noise on the terraces, not cracking skulls. Aston Villa’s Brigada 1874, Leicester’s Fosse Boys, Middlesbrough’s Red Faction and Celtic’s Green Brigade are among them and there have been movements at Ipswich Town and non-league clubs such as Clapton FC and Dulwich Hamlet, whose support comes from a left-leaning, liberal platform as a counterpoint to the often contrary views on the terraces of British football’s past.

Kenny Legg, a football writer based in Berlin who is fascinated by German ultras, believes that for the UK to develop a similar scene fans need something to kick against, be it a political issue, exorbitant ticket prices or just the perceived boredom of the modern football experience. “It has its roots in left-wing politics in Italy and the German ultras scene is heavily political, with groups often taking a stance on issues outside of football – refugees, racism, homophobia,” he says. “In Germany the ultras movement was often a reaction against the hooliganism that was still prevalent in stadiums in the early/mid-90s. Ultras groups, in some instances, took over the terraces and made them a fun, bright, colourful place for broad ranges of society, rather than a place to be feared.”

But Legg believes that, even as Britain stands on the verge of shrinking itself culturally as it prepares to pull the shutters down on Europe, young people here could never be as politically motivated as mid-90s post-reunification Germans, so any catalyst must come from somewhere else. It may be that British football, particularly the commercial juggernaut that is the English top flight, is immune to an ultras movement because of all-seater stadiums, a fear of hooliganism, ticketing, an ageing fanbase (try doing the Poznan for 90 minutes in your mid-50s) and years of gentrification.

David Mayor, a Manchester City season-ticket-holder of 30 years and writer for the sadly now defunct European Football Weekends website, fears the sanitisation of football in Britain – particularly the Premier League – has gone so far as to make developing an ultras scene almost impossible. “There’s more of a warming to the movement in Britain because of the internet and YouTube and also people travelling abroad more to watch games. But fans here might be worried about the consequences of being too exuberant or vocally critical of their club. The possibility of being thrown out might put them off.”

Fans in Britain do not really enjoy orchestrated singing or repetition – just ask the England band. Nor do they take kindly to being told how to support their team. The altercations that have broken out at West Hamin recent months are evidence of a divide that exists between those who see themselves as old-school supporters and those who are new to the game and perhaps a little wealthier and more passive. And it is not only a problem at West Ham. Some fans just want to watch the match and could not care less about the atmosphere – and would want to be near a flare only if they were bobbing up and down in the North Sea. That is fair enough – and in any case many ultras do not believe in the no pyro, no party ethos. There are many other ways to have fun at the match.

Legg says many normal fans were at first resistant to the ultras movement in Germany but, over time, grew to accept it and realise that it was a positive, harmless influence in grounds.

With safe-standing back on the agenda (Celtic have reintroduced it), discussions about how to breathe a little life back into British stadiums will inevitably be had among fans’ unions, of which there are many more than there used to be. If the word ultras is uttered, it need not be dismissed out of hand. Ultras groups might not be completely compatible with British football culture but they could help it get over what, at times, feels like a fear of atmosphere.
 

 

Edited 25 October 2016 by C-man

[GaelicFox]

On 23/10/2016 at 14:00, MC Prussian said:

The idea per se is a good one, but the execution leaves me highly disappointed.

It's basically a video that celebrates violence against RB Leipzig fans, legitimizing it in the process.

Whatever you may think of the Red Bull club, that's the wrong way of going about it. Something humorous/witty would've been way better and way more effective.

 

Fed up with this White Man Gangsta Rap trash.

White man gangster trash is hilarious , the irony is lost on these idiots , anyway they've got Honey G to look up to now  

[GaelicFox]

35 minutes ago, C-man said:

Good article from the Guardian.

 

Leicester’s Fosse Boys

 

 

 

he has really nailed the research on that article 

[Voll Blau]

Good article but I did put my head in my hands at the England Band comparison.

[Finnegan]

I find the idea that gentrification of football crowds is an obstacle to ultra movements when a good chunk of those involved are rather middle class, nice young boys, pretty funny.

 

It's not like Union FS is rammed full of violent chavs, is it? (That's intended as more of a compliment then it may come across.)

 

I'm not sure I'd call many football crowds outside of the "big four" all that 'gentrified' either to be fair.

 

I think the opposite is true, in my experience, I think you've got a lot of more hardcore, potential vocal support in this country that are actually resistant to ultra movements because they see them as a little strange, a bit foreign, possibly even a bit campy and corny.

 

The Fosse Boys are a good example. They got laughed at and mocked by a lot of people that didn't join in when they attempted more "European" chants.

 

Yet, re-branded, toned down a bit and kicking off more conventional singing they've had far more success in this second coming as UFS.

[Sol thewall Bamba]

1 hour ago, Finnegan said:

I find the idea that gentrification of football crowds is an obstacle to ultra movements when a good chunk of those involved are rather middle class, nice young boys, pretty funny.

 

It's not like Union FS is rammed full of violent chavs, is it? (That's intended as more of a compliment then it may come across.)

 

I'm not sure I'd call many football crowds outside of the "big four" all that 'gentrified' either to be fair.

 

I think the opposite is true, in my experience, I think you've got a lot of more hardcore, potential vocal support in this country that are actually resistant to ultra movements because they see them as a little strange, a bit foreign, possibly even a bit campy and corny.

 

The Fosse Boys are a good example. They got laughed at and mocked by a lot of people that didn't join in when they attempted more "European" chants.

 

Yet, re-branded, toned down a bit and kicking off more conventional singing they've had far more success in this second coming as UFS.

Good post, I think the points in the second half are spot on, I think the Fosse Boys just misjudged the 'appetite' for a 'left wing' 'ultras' group at the City. I think at some other clubs (particularly if there's more of a blank canvas of supporter culture like there was at Palace before HF got going) this approach would take off but maybe not here.

Not sure about the first point you made about ultras mainly being middle class (not sure if you mean in Europe or the UK), firstly the limited exposure I’ve had to the scene in Europe, those involved have been pretty rough round the edges to put in nicely, also most capos I’ve seen have been in their late 30s at least! Secondly, and this is one thing I really like about the culture, is it doesn’t matter at all what ‘class’ you come from, as long as you’re giving everything for your team you’re treated exactly the same as the bloke next to you. Same for political beliefs (at most clubs!), religion, anything. I think this is why UFS have been completely apolitical, a good example being when people were asking if they were going to do a 'refugees welcome' banner and they steered clear completely.

 

I think over time most clubs in the UK will form some sort of organised fan group somewhere along the scale of the Green Brigade through to something like they have at Watford or Derby, I think we have something in the middle which is just right imo. 

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Also more great actions from Ultras Dynamo at the weekend, probably my favourite German group, give Dortmund a run for their money I reckon. 

[Finnegan]

I meant in the UK. There's quite a lot of white, middle class student types in a lot of these new 'ultra' movements.

 

That's not a criticism at all, I'm not being classist or scathing at all.

 

It just make me laugh the implication in that article that the prawn sandwich brigade would resist these scary, working class, ultra types.

 

From what I've witnessed (I admit, from the outside looking in) it's a little bit the opposite. It's the "rough round the edges" support, like our L1, that seem to more openly resist and sneer at the "ultras."

[Sol thewall Bamba]

Oh right then yeah I agree with you completely. I don't think big Dave in L1 who's ex baby squad is going to be seen helping set up the next tifo, but I guess it's good to have different sub cultures, all adds to the fabric of our support.