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Dan

QPR threatened with relegation to Conference?

By Dan, in General Football and Sport

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LanguedocFox

LanguedocFox

Posted
Posted

I think the reason it would not affect Man City/PSG etc is that the rules are completely different in the Premier League from what they are in the Championship. Quite a good explanation here: http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php.

 

Basically, if the Man City owners inject capital (which they will undoubtedly do), and they limit losses to £105 million over three seasons, they will be OK. Given the amount of TV money that Man City gets, along with sponsorship income, it's likely that their losses will be much less than that. Even with a capital injection, QPR's losses must be limited to £15 million - and they went way over that.

 

We are lucky that our owners effectively wiped out our debts, and our management team cut back on costs such as salaries, because I don't think we have been fined.

 

The other interesting thing is that QPR will only pay the fine if they get relegated, which is another excuse (if he needed one) for Redknapp to break the bank again. Which, of course, builds up problems for the future. I feel sorry for QPR fans, most of whom seem like a decent bunch of people.

Saxondale

Saxondale

Posted
Posted

My view has been consistent, that it is very unfair for a club that has been relegated as the wage difference - between the Premier League and -Championship is impossible. There should be a time period for clubs to rectify their salaries.

"If we were in the Championship in two years with that wage bill it wouldn't be right. I'm in favour of FFP but it is unfair for a club coming down."

Err, that argument is a bit irrelevant when they spaffed like crazy on lots of expensive new players.

yorkie1999

yorkie1999

Posted
Posted

I think the reason it would not affect Man City/PSG etc is that the rules are completely different in the Premier League from what they are in the Championship. Quite a good explanation here: http://www.financialfairplay.co.uk/financial-fair-play-explained.php.

 

Basically, if the Man City owners inject capital (which they will undoubtedly do), and they limit losses to £105 million over three seasons, they will be OK. Given the amount of TV money that Man City gets, along with sponsorship income, it's likely that their losses will be much less than that. Even with a capital injection, QPR's losses must be limited to £15 million - and they went way over that.

 

We are lucky that our owners effectively wiped out our debts, and our management team cut back on costs such as salaries, because I don't think we have been fined.

 

The other interesting thing is that QPR will only pay the fine if they get relegated, which is another excuse (if he needed one) for Redknapp to break the bank again. Which, of course, builds up problems for the future. I feel sorry for QPR fans, most of whom seem like a decent bunch of people.

I think what the FL are saying is if QPR don't pay the fine by December and then if they ever get relegated, they wont be allowed to play in the football league.

fuchsntf

fuchsntf

Posted
Posted

So lets say they are pushed out the PL in December.

#what happens to points won or lost

#what happens ,due to various circumstances they havent yet played other clubs once.

#what happens if they are in the Fa cup, then extension is granted.

#Teams winning or losing pts, will have rights on both sides of any argument.

Especially teams fighting relegation, not forgetting teams that might lose to them while chasing the title.

#Teams who missed out on a championship place, might throw their hat in the ring.

# vultures, sharks, barracudas, Octopuses, Hawks, and family Trotters, will suddenly come out of the woodwork.

davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted

So lets say they are pushed out the PL in December.

#what happens to points won or lost

#what happens ,due to various circumstances they havent yet played other clubs once.

#what happens if they are in the Fa cup, then extension is granted.

#Teams winning or losing pts, will have rights on both sides of any argument.

Especially teams fighting relegation, not forgetting teams that might lose to them while chasing the title.

#Teams who missed out on a championship place, might throw their hat in the ring.

# vultures, sharks, barracudas, Octopuses, Hawks, and family Trotters, will suddenly come out of the woodwork.

Why would they get pushed out of the PL in December?

davieG

davieG

Posted
Posted
And while we are on the question of FFP – think of QPR

By Tony Attwood

In June this year I wrote a little piece Could Leicester and QPR be relegated to League one? which was my second foray into the morass that is FFP in the Championship.   The point being that clubs which buy their way out of the Championship could be severely punished if they ever return to the league.

Now it seems that I was being too lenient, for The Football League has said that QPR could be consigned to the Conference if they get relegated from the Premier League this season or any time in the future – unless they pay the fine of around £40m that the League has lined up for them.

The problem is that QPR’s accounts show, rather in the way that I suggested they might show (and as you can tell from this article and the one this morning, I am feeling rather good about the having got a few of my FFP predictions I’ve got right this year) rather large losses.   £65.4m for the year ending May 2013, in fact.

Rather careless if you ask me.

And the losses for the financial year ending May 2014 when they got promotion are thought to be along the same lines.  Well, Arry is the great wheeler dealer so I expect they will.

Now what makes QPR so interesting is that they have been  the Man City of the  Championship with chairman Tony Fernandes saying pretty much that these rules aren’t fair and don’t apply to QPR.  The Premier League ain’t happy about this either, and they have refused to collect the fine (which is why it will only turn up when a promoted club goes back down).

The Premier League forced the Championship to agree to give the fine to charity, not to the clubs that obeyed the rules, and they are pushing the League to change the whole approach of the rules.  But meanwhile it does mean that we might see certain charities sponsoring league clubs in the future though!

So if QPR go down, the League will slap a fine on QPR.  QPR will refuse to pay and if they don’t pay the League can throw them out.  Although it is more likely they will try and settle with something less than that, like a whopping great points deduction, or a fine over several seasons, or forcing them to play in the Fijian second division.

Actually I made the last one up.

Shaun Harvey, Chief Ex of the League said, “The one thing for certain is that most clubs [in the Premier League] will become a Football League club again.  Now QPR will of course be hoping it does not happen for some considerable number of seasons but the chances they will need to return to the Football League fold at some point. Certainly, three of the 20 clubs that are in the Premier League will be in the Football League next season.

“Unless the 24 clubs vote to change the rules, the rules as they are now will stay in place. I don’t suspect there is any form of rule change that would be considered or brought forward that would see the current circumstances we potentially face changing.”

The FFP sanctions in the Championship are quite neat.  Those clubs that don’t go to the Premier League get lumbered with a transfer embargo.  Those that go up get a fine or points deduction when they come back down.

The QPR boss, said, “My view has been consistent, that it is very unfair for a club that has been relegated as the wage difference between the Premier League and Championship is impossible. There should be a time period for clubs to rectify their salaries.  If we were in the Championship in two years with that wage bill it wouldn’t be right. I’m in favour of FFP but it is unfair for a club coming down.”

So, despite all the suggestions that FFP would not happen, that everyone would back down, that the EC would rule it illegal, that everyone would fudge their way round it, it seems that there is action happening in the Championship, as it is at the European level.

Just to clarify the Championship rules the allowable loss for 2013/14 was £8m, so QPR did rather overdo it last season. First punishments to be handed out in December.

And QPR are not the only ones who might be in trouble.  AFC Bournemouth lost £15.3m in 2012/13 when they got promotion from League One.  They are going to have had to make a massive turn around in their accounts last season (in the championship) to avoid problems.  I’m not sure they did.

Other big losses in 2012/13 who will be in trouble unless they utterly slashed their expenditure last year are

  • Bolton £50.6m
  • Blackburn £36.5m (spending more than their turnover on player salaries)
  • Wolverhampton £30.4m
  • Middlesbrough £18.5m
  • Nottingham Forest £17.1m

Of course I don’t claim that I have got everything right here; I take my figures from public sources, and listen to what the accountants are saying.   It is just that one or two of my wilder predictions are turning out to be somewhere near the truth, so I am encouraged to carry on plodding away with FFP matters.

Meanwhile it is rather reassuring to support a club that actually makes money much of the time.

 

 

 

 

 

2 comments to And while we are on the question of FFP – think of QPR
  • johnallen

    Like many others you know nothing of the finances of Leicester city… mate join the long line of ill informed “experts” when it comes to commenting on the Foxes and their so called “big” spending..

  • John Allen, I could say that like many others you know nothing of what Untold is about or has published before. We had others making the same point here last time I wrote about this – and of course you could be right. As I have admitted here and in other articles I am working from public sources of information, and the bits and pieces I am slipped by what we might call reliable sources.

    But what is interesting is that as with Man C, when people write in and tell writers on this site that we are misguided and wrong, they don’t come up with any serious evidence, or explanations.

    In their last accounts, which are a public document, Leicester had a wage bill of £26.1m. However they had a turnover of £19.6m Thus they spent more on salaries than they earned. They made a loss before tax of £34m.

    Now that is what their own figures show, as supplied in public records, which they are required to do as a limited company.

    So tell me, how is that not problematic under FFP?

http://untold-arsenal.com/archives/37764?

MC Prussian

MC Prussian

Posted
Posted

It's going to be an interesting two more months until QPR release the figures for the 2013/2014 season. Surely, there'll be a lot of tweaking, chopping and changing in order to meet the Football League requirements and to avoid that hefty fine.

 

The FL entry ban is currently "only" a theoretical scenary and by the sounds of it, rather unlikely as of right now.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/29129536

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

So lets say they are pushed out the PL in December.

#what happens to points won or lost

#what happens ,due to various circumstances they havent yet played other clubs once.

#what happens if they are in the Fa cup, then extension is granted.

#Teams winning or losing pts, will have rights on both sides of any argument.

Especially teams fighting relegation, not forgetting teams that might lose to them while chasing the title.

#Teams who missed out on a championship place, might throw their hat in the ring.

# vultures, sharks, barracudas, Octopuses, Hawks, and family Trotters, will suddenly come out of the woodwork.

 

This is the Football league not the PL. The FL only deal with the leagues. They can't push QPR out of the Prem only stop them from entering the Ch, L1, L2

Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Why would they get pushed out of the PL in December?

You forgot the #

Rhysm

Rhysm

Posted
Posted

Although the way they spent that season was completely irresponsible, it is madness to penalise a club for making losses by fining them to make things worse.

The owner will just walk away with the fans being the only ones who are punished ala Pompey.

LanguedocFox

LanguedocFox

Posted
Posted

I think what the FL are saying is if QPR don't pay the fine by December and then if they ever get relegated, they wont be allowed to play in the football league.

 

 

Yes, you are right: I misread the article.

 

Could make life interesting for them: maybe they could apply for refugee status to the Premier League?

filbertway

filbertway

Posted
Posted

Yeah it seems odd to punish financial mishandling by adding more financial burden to the club. Points deductions/reductions in allowed squad size would be the best way of attacking the problem.

 

Is it this season Man City can only announce 21 men instead of 25 in europe, with 8 of them having to be home grown?

Vicki Vixen

Vicki Vixen

Posted
Posted

Surely the sanctions, including penalties for non-payment of fines, should have been clarified in the FFP regulations BEFORE the regulations came in to force.

 

It is absurd that the FL Chief Executive is talking to the media about "theoretically" (his word) what could happen as a result of non-compliance with FFP, over a year after the regulations were introduced.  What makes him think he has the authority to determine how clubs should be punished?

 

The sanctions should be 1) clarified in advance of the regulations being introduced, 2) fair, proportionate and consistent across all leagues where FFP is in force.

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