Pearson has to go!

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Nigel is a top manager and a top bloke. Why do people want him, and by extension Shakey, Walsh and Super Kev, to lose their jobs?

This man has done more for us on a Saturday afternoon than anyone else recently and people are howling and hooting at his supposed incompetence like no team has ever been in a sticky patch before.

It's a little more than a "sticky patch"

 

In the Championship clubs have more chance of turning things round, and saving themselves, because they have more fixtures to do it in, than the Premiership.

 

I'm backing Pearson thus far, but we cannot afford to be in the bottom three for much longer. The problem is compacted by the fact that we are running around like headless chickens.

 

Pearson must sort this out, and quickly. 

[inckley fox]

You've got to keep him, surely. The only worry is the precedent has been set by Southampton when they got shut of Adkins, they got lucky and it worked. Having said that I got slated on here early in the season for saying that NP changed too much, too quickly and lost his winning formula from last season.

 

We have stuck with ours, and while you may laugh, because we are still bottom, there is still that really tight knit team feeling about us, which you seem to have lost.

 

This isn't true, strictly speaking, though I understand what you're saying. Part of the problem has been his misplaced faith in regulars from last season who have been shown up at this level. And in terms of precedents, I'm not sure you're 100% right either.

 

Southampton got rid of Adkins when they were in a better position than we are currently, and it worked. Palace replaced Holloway with Pulis when they were in a worst position than we are currently, and it worked. 

 

If we look further afield, then there have been plenty of successful mid-season managerial switches: Hodgson for Di Matteo and, to a lesser extent, Mel for Clarke at West Brom. Monk for Laudrup at Swansea. Pardew for Hughton at Newcastle. Hughes for Warnock at QPR. Di Canio for O'Neill and Poyet for Di Canio at Sunderland.

 

There have also been plenty of failed mid-season managerial switches. See Solskjaer for Mackay, Meulenstein for Jol, Redknapp for Hughes; or go further back in time and look at McGhee for Little or Bassett for Taylor.

 

Each case needs treating on its own merits, and if you look at what has / hasn't worked for other clubs in the past, it's essential not to worry too much about how successful the manager has been for you in the previous seasons, especially at a lower level. Otherwise Adkins would still be at Southampton, Warnock at QPR, Hughton at Newcastle, Di Matteo at West Brom, Laudrup at Swansea, possibly even Holloway at Paris.

 

As far as Pearson is concerned, he has shown to be a competent manager in the past, but at a lower level. We can't go thinking that he will turn out to be a PL survival specialist, especially when he has quite clearly made serious errors already (poor transfer dealings which do little to improve the first team, poor results, unsettled line-up and formation, misplaced faith in the likes of Nugent, De Laet, Konchesky etc.). And I don't see how anyone can fail to accept this.

 

But I believe he should have longer. He knows these players better than anybody, is familiar with their strengths and weaknesses, AND we are still in November - we are unlikely to be cut adrift before December and if we did make a change, December would still give the boss time to assess the squad before the window. I still think there is an excellent chance that Pearson will turn it around, provided he drops this 'I won't change how I manage' nonsense and takes a serious look at what he might need to improve on if HE wishes to make the step up.

[Bamba's Babes]

The thing possibly annoyed me the most yesterday was when Pearson came down to the touchline and began demonstrating to the players.

 

Firstly, I had/have no problem with him sitting in the stands, it worked for us last year and he gets a different view of the game. Fine.

 

Yesterday, and the past couple of games we've been losing, he has come down to the technical box and tried to gee-up the troops. He must think that this has an influence, his presence on the touchline is a positive, so I ask, why does he sit in the fecking stands?

[Bettsj2]

It's a good post and I do understand your point about waiting too long but Taylor didn't do anything with the club initially, he didn't take us anywhere or win anything, he simply came in and destroyed 4 years of hard work with poor signings and bad strategy. Pearson has built - over two spells - everything this club has achieved over the last 3 or 4 seasons. He has lead us to success in the past and overcome poor runs in the process. He's not a stupid man and he and the staff will know that it's not working right now.

It's because of what he's achieved with us, I'm prepared to stick my neck out and back the guy This season was never going to be a walk in the park and back in July a LOT of people said they'd be happy with 17th this season. I think we all have to accept there will be a few bad results this season but we're not cut off, we've not been trounced by anyone and just need to find the best formation and side to get us some points. I'm still happy with 17th but a few seem to think 7th was achievable.

The most telling thing was the thread that said "Who's YOUR best team?" After about 40 replies there were 36 different answers. We need patience, we need to hold our nerve and maybe, just maybe, show some faith in a guy who it's worth remembering has the best win ratio of any post-war City manager.

Very good post.

I very much hope that you're proved right and i'm wrong.

The next two games could give us the answer.

[Burbo17J2]

You've got to keep him, surely. The only worry is the precedent has been set by Southampton when they got shut of Adkins, they got lucky and it worked. Having said that I got slated on here early in the season for saying that NP changed too much, too quickly and lost his winning formula from last season.

We have stuck with ours, and while you may laugh, because we are still bottom, there is still that really tight knit team feeling about us, which you seem to have lost.

Its great having you on here. A fan of a team who will be in and around where we are this season making proper judgements... You're probably the best person on here for discussions like this, because you give a neutral view point.

[Mark_w]

Its great having you on here. A fan of a team who will be in and around where we are this season making proper judgements... You're probably the best person on here for discussions like this, because you give a neutral view point.

 

It's not really a neutral view point though, he just tells us how much better Burnley are.

[Burbo17J2]

It's not really a neutral view point though, he just tells us how much better Burnley are.

Well... Not really

[Livid]

How long do you give him then?

Yes he's turned the club around and got us up but this is a different level. I'm concerned because the last time we went on a run like this a couple of seasons ago, he couldn't find the proverbial emergency stop button, we just stumbled into the play offs on the basis of a breakaway goal in the last minute against a Forest side going for it themselves .

When things are going well, last season, everything is rosy. Throw a spanner in the works and lose a few and he looks inept. It just looks like we've totally lost the plot. Mahrez on the bench FFS, he scored and created our last two goals.

It's took us 10 years to get back up are we willing to go back down with a whimper just to stick with the manager who got us up.

I don't think he should go yet, but if a month from now we have nothing from Sunderland, QPR and Villa I will have changed my mind.

Bottom 3 in January with our wage cap, I can't see the quality we need queuing up to join us.

[lgfualol]

The thing possibly annoyed me the most yesterday was when Pearson came down to the touchline and began demonstrating to the players.

 

Firstly, I had/have no problem with him sitting in the stands, it worked for us last year and he gets a different view of the game. Fine.

 

Yesterday, and the past couple of games we've been losing, he has come down to the technical box and tried to gee-up the troops. He must think that this has an influence, his presence on the touchline is a positive, so I ask, why does he sit in the fecking stands?

 

He likes being different

[BlackburnClaret]

It's not really a neutral view point though, he just tells us how much better Burnley are.

Like NP said, you're a better club on every level. For me I think that's when he lost the plot a little, questioning size of goalposts etc. it's been well documented on here how much better your squad is than ours, all we have that better then you at the minute is team spirit, Trippier and Ings.

[Burbo17J2]

Like NP said, you're a better club on every level. For me I think that's when he lost the plot a little, questioning size of goalposts etc. it's been well documented on here how much better your squad is than ours, all we have that better then you at the minute is team spirit, Trippier and Ings.

And away fans... You have better away fans

[5waller5]

6 is the magic number 2 more defeats and he's gone.

 

 

I think the magic number is 7 ... but he'll win the next game so it'll be irrelevant.

[Tom's Pasta]

Maybe we should look at ourselves as well.

Sarcastically cheering king's shot in the second half doesn't exactly help anyone and the atmosphere against west brom and burnley didn't exactly inspire the players either. I'm no happy clapper but maybe just less miserable than some fans.

[inckley fox]

It's interesting to look at what has happened to sides in the bottom six who have changed manager in the past five seasons.

 

In 2009-10 two sides who were in the bottom six in November made voluntary pre-January management changes. Coyle kept Bolton up, but Grant took Portsmouth down. Hull didn't change their manager until March, and they also went down. All three relegated sides had changed manager during the season, but only one did so voluntarily and before the end of January.

 

In 2010-11 one side in the bottom six in November made a pre-January change, and Kean kept Blackburn up. None of the three relegated sides had made a managerial change.

 

In 2011-12 one side in the bottom six in November changed their manager before the end of the window, and O'Neill kept Sunderland up. Of the three relegated clubs, only one made a change and that came after the January.

 

In 2012-13 two sides in the bottom six in November would change their manager before the end of the window. Pochettino kept Southampton up, Redknapp took QPR down. Of the three relegated clubs, two had made changes, but only one of them came before the end of the window.

 

In 2013-14 one side in the bottom six had already made a change before November; Poyet kept Sunderland up. Of the sides in the bottom six at this time in November, three brought in new managers. Pulis kept Palace up, Meulenstein and Magath between them would take Fulham down, Solskjaer would take Cardiff down. Of the three relegated clubs, all three had made changes but only one of the end-of-season managers had had a January transfer window.

 

So, out of fifteen relegated sides, nine have made managerial changes. But of these nine relegated mid-season appointments, only four have been given a January window (Laws, Grant, Redknapp, Solskjaer). Of sides which have been in the bottom six at this time in November, ten out of the thirty have changed managers voluntarily before the end of January, and only three out of those ten have suffered relegation.

 

It's hard to argue that the appointment of a competent, proven manager in advance of a January transfer window is more dangerous than sticking with an in situ manager. What this doesn't take into consideration, however, is how good a manager it is that is being replaced. In the case of Pearson, I'd argue he's better than the likes of Mackay, Hart and Di Canio, and we should be very cautious before making a change.

 

The counter argument would be that Pulis, Mancini, Moyes and O'Neill are all a lot better than, say, Grant, Solskjaer and Laws!

[Spanner73]

Thesackrace

Pearson was 28/1 now down to 16/1

[LCFC Rennie]

And away fans... You have better away fans

Really? Seriously. The team that brought 900 fans to us last season, we brought nearly 4000 to them. Idiot.

[Burbo17J2]

Really? Seriously. The team that brought 900 fans to us last season, we brought nearly 4000 to them. Idiot.

Because its not like I'm basing it on this season is it? We cant make any noise at all on away days....

[5waller5]

Because its not like I'm basing it on this season is it? We cant make any noise at all on away days....

 

 

Are you just banging the keyboard and words are randomly appearing?? If not, try it, you might make more sense.

[Burbo17J2]

Are you just banging the keyboard and words are randomly appearing?? If not, try it, you might make more sense.

Last season is irrelevant. Burnley's fans are much better than ours this season on away days... Mainly because we don't make any noise, there are too many day trippers

[Mark_w]

It's interesting to look at what has happened to sides in the bottom six who have changed manager in the past five seasons.

 

In 2009-10 two sides who were in the bottom six in November made voluntary pre-January management changes. Coyle kept Bolton up, but Grant took Portsmouth down. Hull didn't change their manager until March, and they also went down. All three relegated sides had changed manager during the season, but only one did so voluntarily and before the end of January.

 

In 2010-11 one side in the bottom six in November made a pre-January change, and Kean kept Blackburn up. None of the three relegated sides had made a managerial change.

 

In 2011-12 one side in the bottom six in November changed their manager before the end of the window, and O'Neill kept Sunderland up. Of the three relegated clubs, only one made a change and that came after the January.

 

In 2012-13 two sides in the bottom six in November would change their manager before the end of the window. Pochettino kept Southampton up, Redknapp took QPR down. Of the three relegated clubs, two had made changes, but only one of them came before the end of the window.

 

In 2013-14 one side in the bottom six had already made a change before November; Poyet kept Sunderland up. Of the sides in the bottom six at this time in November, three brought in new managers. Pulis kept Palace up, Meulenstein and Magath between them would take Fulham down, Solskjaer would take Cardiff down. Of the three relegated clubs, all three had made changes but only one of the end-of-season managers had had a January transfer window.

 

So, out of fifteen relegated sides, nine have made managerial changes. But of these nine relegated mid-season appointments, only four have been given a January window (Laws, Grant, Redknapp, Solskjaer). Of sides which have been in the bottom six at this time in November, ten out of the thirty have changed managers voluntarily before the end of January, and only three out of those ten have suffered relegation.

 

It's hard to argue that the appointment of a competent, proven manager in advance of a January transfer window is more dangerous than sticking with an in situ manager. What this doesn't take into consideration, however, is how good a manager it is that is being replaced. In the case of Pearson, I'd argue he's better than the likes of Mackay, Hart and Di Canio, and we should be very cautious before making a change.

 

The counter argument would be that Pulis, Mancini, Moyes and O'Neill are all a lot better than, say, Grant, Solskjaer and Laws!

 

Coyle took over in January, they were 18th at the time and finished 14th. They went down two seasons later.

Grant took over in November, they were 20th at the time and finished 20th.

Kean took over in December, they were 13th at the time and finished 15th. They went down the next season.

O'Neill took over in December, they were 16th at the time and finished 13th. They haven't gone down.

Pochettinho took over in January, they were 15th at the time and finished 14th. They haven't gone down.

Redknapp took over in November, they were 19th at the time and finished 20th.

Pulis took over in November, they were 19th at the time and finished 11th.

Solskjaer took over in January, they were 17th at the time and finished 20th

Meulensteen took over in December, they were 18th at the time, they were 20th when he was sacked. Magath took over in February, they were 20th when he took over, they finished 19th.

 

So of the managers you've listed 5 managers improved their clubs position while 4 saw the club regress. One failed to move the side any further forward from their position in 20th. Of those you listed who changed manager prior to last season, two survived another two seasons, two went down within another two seasons. And of those listed one manager who took over in November or earlier managed to get any improvement out of his team while the other two failed. If anything, I think you've just proved that the stats can't tell us an awful lot.

Edit: Missed Poyet, apologies, took Sunderland from 20th in October (with a point) to 14th at the end of the season. So six improvements, 4 regressions, one lack of movement.

[Monk]

We haven't scored in 5 games, but let's put it in perspective.

 

• Hull haven't scored in 4 games
• Palace, Sunderland & Villa have both conceded more goals than us in the last 4 games
• Palace haven't won since they played us
• QPR haven't won since August!
• Let's not even get started with Burnley...

Would you be sacking the managers of these teams too? It's a long long season, and we have the third longest serving manager in the league. 

 

I know a lot of you want him gone, the same ones who wanted him gone after our collapse the season before last. I just think it's far too soon to be thinking of that. As long as we are in reasonable touch with our goal of 17th I am happy with Nigel. We all knew this would be a long hard season and it's proving to be exactly that. 

[inckley fox]

Coyle took over in January, they were 18th at the time and finished 14th. They went down two seasons later.

Grant took over in November, they were 20th at the time and finished 20th.

Kean took over in December, they were 13th at the time and finished 15th. They went down the next season.

O'Neill took over in December, they were 16th at the time and finished 13th. They haven't gone down.

Pochettinho took over in January, they were 15th at the time and finished 14th. They haven't gone down.

Redknapp took over in November, they were 19th at the time and finished 20th.

Pulis took over in November, they were 19th at the time and finished 11th.

Solskjaer took over in January, they were 17th at the time and finished 20th

Meulensteen took over in December, they were 18th at the time, they were 20th when he was sacked. Magath took over in February, they were 20th when he took over, they finished 19th.

 

So of the managers you've listed 5 managers improved their clubs position while 4 saw the club regress. One failed to move the side any further forward from their position in 20th. Of those you listed who changed manager prior to last season, two survived another two seasons, two went down within another two seasons. And of those listed one manager who took over in November or earlier managed to get any improvement out of his team while the other two failed. If anything, I think you've just proved that the stats can't tell us an awful lot.

 

Regardless, the point stands. Of the fifteen relegated managers over the past five years, only three of those have been managers appointed mid-season, and before the end of the window. In spite of the fact that ten clubs in the bottom six at this stage of the season, as we are now, have fired their managers during that window of time.

 

What I'm saying is that there is little evidence to suggest that keeping a manager is more successful than bringing someone else in. If anything, the evidence points towards the contrary and your stat that 5 out of 9 appointments saw the clubs improve on their position does nothing to change that.

 

I think we should keep Pearson for now, but the argument in his favour cannot revolve around the following: that he was good in the second and third tiers and deserves some loyalty, that loads of our other managers have been rubbish, that there are no alternatives and that clubs who change managers in our position more often than not go down. Because these arguments have no substance.

[lgfualol]

We haven't scored in 5 games, but let's put it in perspective.

 

• QPR haven't won since August!

 

Beat Aston Villa 2-0 on the 27th October 

[Kitchandro]

Last season is irrelevant. Burnley's fans are much better than ours this season on away days... Mainly because we don't make any noise, there are too many day trippers

 

And Burnley do?

[Monk]

Beat Aston Villa 2-0 on the 27th October 

 

Sorry my bad - glossing over results on BBC.