Esteban Cambiasso

[walkerleeds]

Just expected him to be better. Age doesnt really come into it look at Lampard.

 

Just my opinion, I also agree Drinkwater has been very poor so far

 

Difference is Lampard is playing in an outstanding team I guess, even Drinkwater (of this season) would look different league if he had that sort of talent alongside him. 

 

With Cambiasso, it is almost like his passing range is 'too good'- I can think of three times his superb passing range and vision put Vardy in behind on Saturday, if we had Aguero up front us he would have had a hat trick from Cambiasso's assists alone. 

[GingerrrFox]

This thread is ridiculous.

He basically got us two goals against QPR, one being his goal and the other an extremely delicate volley to Albrighton, which most players would have snatched at.

He also nearly scored with the header that was cleared off the line.

[Guest Col city fan]

The problem with Cambiasso is not what he does but what he doesn't do. He has two major probolems in English football.

a) He's useless in helping to defend anything in the air and we need supp;lementary help at set pieces like every other team.

b) He marks space rather than tracking runners and that space has cost us dearly at times.

Coupled with his not really having the legs to be a fully functioning key midfielder and you've got a weakness that, with the bloke's undoubted skills and deft passing, can look like a strength.

Despite what some might think, I don't see King as being all the answers - and certainly not without his being given a specific role that he can reasonably be expected to master - but his loss as defensive supplement and his loss as an accurate passer and potential goalscorer is considerable.

I actually think Kind should leave for his career's sake and have believed this for a while. He needs to be playing at a club like Swansea where they really do try to pass and move. King's having to involve himself in too much at Leicester and he just doesn't have the energy levels and pace necessary to do so much. He needs to have a much more defined role - probably as a fulcrum like Neil Lennon - and with someone like Schlupp outside him so there's a full-range of passing options.

There are an awful lot of people missing exactly this point IMO.

It seems to me there is a bit of 'Beckford syndrome' going on here...whereby people just refuse to consider that Cambiasso might not be as good for the team as they all thought (and said he would be). That said, Cambiasso is a much better player.

Spot on... what Cambiasso doesn't do outweighs what he does do IMO. That said, no-one else is hardly pulling up trees either.

[m4DD0gg]

His passing is spot on and world class, rest of the team is hardly even receptive to that kind of play.

 

Reminds me a large chunk of sweetcorn in a huge turd.

[Callabinho]

Provided they both start, Cambiasso V's Gerrard will be where the game is won and lost in my opinion.

[Manwell Pablo]

There are an awful lot of people missing exactly this point IMO.

It seems to me there is a bit of 'Beckford syndrome' going on here...whereby people just refuse to consider that Cambiasso might not be as good for the team as they all thought (and said he would be). That said, Cambiasso is a much better player.

Spot on... what Cambiasso doesn't do outweighs what he does do IMO. That said, no-one else is hardly pulling up trees either.

 

Just seems like one bloke desperate not to be wrong about Cambiasso not being good enough agreeing with a load of fictional statements written by someone who's desperate to get Andy King back in the side come rain or shine to me. 

[SMX11]

I almost think he needs to be played in a more advanced position. He cannot track runners but he has great vision.

[cjslcfc]

I almost think he needs to be played in a more advanced position. He cannot track runners but he has great vision.

 

I agree with this. Whilst his defensive work hasn't been great, he has fantastic passing and vision that no-one else in the team (bar Mahrez) can even get close to. I think if we play him as an advanced playmaker and play a more defensive battler behind him then we could really benefit from it. He's still managed to pop up in goalscoring positions in his current position and can clearly finish.

 

Edit: The only problem is Dean Hammond is the only player like this and playing him and Cambiasso seriously slows down our CM.

[Rusko187]

Not really seen enough of him to judge but that being said I don't think he entirely deserves criticism. We've not been great as a unit but to point the finger at him solely seems silly, he isn't the kind of player you need to accommodate in a team. Sure he is lacking pace but his vision and passing ability more than makes up for this, would actually like to see him a bit more centrally and taken away from defensive duties.. think it might suit everyone more as he can be feeding the strikers/wingers with opportunities.

[Rusko187]

I agree with this. Whilst his defensive work hasn't been great, he has fantastic passing and vision that no-one else in the team (bar Mahrez) can even get close to. I think if we play him as an advanced playmaker and play a more defensive battler behind him then we could really benefit from it. He's still managed to pop up in goalscoring positions in his current position and can clearly finish.

 

Edit: The only problem is Dean Hammond is the only player like this and playing him and Cambiasso seriously slows down our CM.

 

I don't necessarily think you need the pace there, as long as they are strict with their positioning than it shouldn't be a problem. Deano is injured though

[NotTheMarketLeader]

I think we have changed our style and, from what Pearson has said, I imagine Cambiasso has influenced that change. Unfortunately it doesn't play to our strengths and isn't likely to given that Cambiasso doesn't do enough things well in his role - good a player as he might have been at his best.

Yes, he can pass the ball quickly and deftly. But he's not much help defending set pieces, he doesn't track the runners naturally, he's not in a physical sense and he's lost his edge in terms of pace and energy.

We're now playing much more narrowly and nullifying the things which allowed us to have any chance of consistently scoring more goals than the opposition - something glaringly illustrated by our failure to score in over 400 minutes.

Our downturn since Cambiasso's arrival seems now to be denting morale as well, perhaps because he's getting so much money for what has fast become a negative return results wise.

Last season's team will be a proud and close one. They won't be happy to see a different approach and different influences costing them their win bonuses or denting their confidence.

Pearson's always referring to the need to "attend to detail" and trying to portray himself as having a studious approach to management but there's nothing studious about changing an approach that works into one that doesn't or about playing so narrow - and making midfield so crowded - that people receiving passes are short of space and the chance of the pass even being delivered successfully is so greatly diminished.

It was there to be seen against West Brom - how rarely we had the opportunity to pass to a player in space.

That wasn't down to West Brom's brilliant defenders.

It was down to a lack of width, pace and mobility.

The more width, pace and skill in a side the more often the opposition has to deal with a threat and the greater the resources they have to deploy in doing that.

We don't pick a team to pose a serious threat anymore - just to contain the opposition and hope to pinch something even at home.

That's the change since Cambiasso's arrival because it certainly wasn't apparent in our early games for all that we came under considerable and well anticipated pressure.

I'm not saying or implying that Cambiasso's no good. But accommodating him has cost us considerably more than it's given us, turning a team of winners into a team of losers.

We've stopped playing to our strengths.

Do fans seriously believe our Championship-winning team have suddenly become bad players in the last six weeks or so?

The evidence for what I say is everywhere.

Ulloa and Vardy have become impotent because there are no fast breakaways, no good crosses and no balls through or behind the defence.

Our accomplished midfielders are looking ordinary because we've no wide players to give them "players-in-space" passing options and what's left to them is so risky and so inconsequential even when the pass does find its target.

Our lack of width and pace means opposing defences are never stretched and that, in turn, means they need fewer people to defend against us and can therefore deploy more bodies to the supporting of attacks.

I can't explain it any more simply. Changing back won't make us world beaters at Premiership level but it might mean us scoring some goals and winning some more points before the January window gives us chance to genuinely strengthen our team.

We're not equipped to beg games more than occasionally. It's not that our defence is woefully bad. They just can't absorb constant pressure without conceding one or two. We have to offer a threat.

I agree with 99% of this in terms of the manager's preferred change in the style of our play. That has cocked us up big time and it's all self inflicted. There is however a big jump to saying has changed it to accommodate Cambiasso. Drinky has looked all at sea, so swapping CM like for like he has dropped him for Cambiasso, AND completely lost the plot of us playing 'our way'. That's a possibility. Either way, he's the decision maker, and over recent months ( I include the summer recruitment in this) I can't see he's made many correct ones and the results could be catastrophic for the club as a whole. I don't see getting relegated as a shrug your shoulders situation, that some posters on here do. It's Pearsons job to keep us up. Excuses are not acceptable imo

[cjslcfc]

I don't necessarily think you need the pace there, as long as they are strict with their positioning than it shouldn't be a problem. Deano is injured though

 

To be honest, I don't rate Hammond that highly. We don't, however, have that DM anywhere really.

[foxinsocks]

Cambiasso is a real asset - we now have three good CMs (EC, MJ and DD - and I don't mind which play) - I don't rate Hammond and sadly, I think King just isn't powerful enough (though he is trying) and as injuries and carsd reduce choice I would not be unhappy about him on the pitch at all... but he's behind the others/

[Rusko187]

To be honest, I don't rate Hammond that highly. We don't, however, have that DM anywhere really.

 

You have to give him credit where it's due, he has done well this season. I always thought Bamba would have been a brilliant defensive mid, too much of a liability at CB and sticking him there gives him more freedom for his suicidal runs.

[Guest Col city fan]

Just seems like one bloke desperate not to be wrong about Cambiasso not being good enough agreeing with a load of fictional statements written by someone who's desperate to get Andy King back in the side come rain or shine to me.

Turn that on its head..many wanting to be proven right, and I think we're probably about there.

In all honesty, it's not really the time to preach, at least not at present. We are currently bottom of the league. If we start moving up the league and don't continue to get over-run by teams, I'll start agreeing with you.

Quite simply, I'll state again.. I agree with many, Cambiasso's quality on the ball is the best we have at present (though he does give it away too). It's off the ball where I think he's leaving us exposed. Whether this is due to him, or the box to box midfield Pearson likes, I dunno.

[Tommy G]

The problem with Cambiasso is not what he does but what he doesn't do. He has two major probolems in English football.

 

a) He's useless in helping to defend anything in the air and we need supp;lementary help at set pieces like every other team. 

 

b) He marks space rather than tracking runners and that space has cost us dearly at times.

 

Coupled with his not really having the legs to be a fully functioning key midfielder and you've got a weakness that, with the bloke's undoubted skills and deft passing, can look like a strength.

 

Despite what some might think, I don't see King as being all the answers - and certainly not without his being given a specific role that he can reasonably be expected to master - but his loss as defensive supplement and his loss as an accurate passer and potential goalscorer is considerable.

 

I actually think Kind should leave for his career's sake and have believed this for a while. He needs to be playing at a club like Swansea where they really do try to pass and move. King's having to involve himself in too much at Leicester and he just doesn't have the energy levels and pace necessary to do so much. He needs to have a much more defined role - probably as a fulcrum like Neil Lennon - and with someone like Schlupp outside him so there's a full-range of passing options.

 

Problem with that is King wouldnt even make the swansea bench let alone starting XI

[Guest ttfn]

Turn that on its head..many wanting to be proven right, and I think we're probably about there.

In all honesty, it's not really the time to preach, at least not at present. We are currently bottom of the league. If we start moving up the league and don't continue to get over-run by teams, I'll start agreeing with you.

Quite simply, I'll state again.. I agree with many, Cambiasso's quality on the ball is the best we have at present (though he does give it away too). It's off the ball where I think he's leaving us exposed. Whether this is due to him, or the box to box midfield Pearson likes, I dunno.

Why would you turn that statement on its head? Personally I was pleased when we signed Cambiasso but I wasn't exactly running around the room excitedly about it, because he's a 34 year old who has just left an upper mid-table Italian club. Some undoubtedly were a bit OTT with their reactions but I'd say that those most vocal about how pleased they've been with him since he's signed were those with high, but not very high, expectations.

But he's had a massive role to play in the 2 wins we've managed this season and has played well almost every time I've watched him. His vision and range of passing is better than anybody I've ever seen play for us. I will be sure to watch out for his lack of awareness off the ball (seems unlikely for somebody with over 50 caps for Argentina but I'll be keeping my eyes peeled).

[Fox Ulike]

He’s done OK but perhaps only because he’s played alongside players who have done his running for him.

 

In CM, we need someone who can get forward. As long as we play Cambiasso he’ll need a chaperone – someone to cover when he can’t get back… This essentially means playing two deep-lying midfielders – which is what we’re doing with James and Cambi.

 

How many times have you seen Cambiasso breaking forward beyond the attackers to start an attack? How often do you see him racing back, covering his full-back like Hammond used to do? NOT MANY!

 

He gets the ball and he makes good use of it. Unfortunately, he only spends around 5% of the game on the ball… for the rest of the 95% of the game he’s a luxury.

 

Col’s right, unfortunately, we need someone like Cattermole.

 

Skill is great but it’s no good to a team like us without work rate and stamina.

[Guest ttfn]

He’s done OK but perhaps only because he’s played alongside players who have done his running for him.

In CM, we need someone who can get forward. As long as we play Cambiasso he’ll need a chaperone – someone to cover when he can’t get back… This essentially means playing two deep-lying midfielders – which is what we’re doing with James and Cambi.

How many times have you seen Cambiasso breaking forward beyond the attackers to start an attack? How often do you see him racing back, covering his full-back like Hammond used to do? NOT MANY!

According to Col the problem is that he is playing box-to-box, so this is all very confusing.

It's also confusing that he's apparently allowing the opposition to waltz through us when he has made more interceptions per game than any other midfield player on our books.

Just because he's not running around beating his chest and thundering into tackles it doesn't mean he's not doing a good job of protecting the centre backs.

All of the goals - almost all of the chances - we're conceding are from wide areas at the moment. We're not getting picked apart by anybody (even Southampton) and he is a massive part in that.

[Manwell Pablo]

Turn that on its head..many wanting to be proven right, and I think we're probably about there.

In all honesty, it's not really the time to preach, at least not at present. We are currently bottom of the league. If we start moving up the league and don't continue to get over-run by teams, I'll start agreeing with you.

Quite simply, I'll state again.. I agree with many, Cambiasso's quality on the ball is the best we have at present (though he does give it away too). It's off the ball where I think he's leaving us exposed. Whether this is due to him, or the box to box midfield Pearson likes, I dunno.

 

Not at all he's been one of our best performers this season and looks to be one of the only players capable of playing this division at the moment.

 

I find that funny as well, as all the goals we are conceding in this terrible run are coming from strikers or set pieces. The goals the strikers are scoring all entail neat little build up play which are defenders just aren't dealing with, yet it is Cambiasso leaving us exposed? 

 

Ironically the one of the only times a midfielder hasn't been picked up and scored (Kightly) Cambiasso wasn't even playing, and the other time (Obertan) he was tracked back by James, but he backed off failed to challenge and Obertan scored. So apologies if I view this as lambasting of his defensive as simply part of your agenda, there have been times when opposition midfield players have had to much space but I would view it a fair way down the list of problems we currently have and I would most definitely not exclusively blame Cambiasso for it.  

 

Also Col on your point on him not marking players and pressing space. This is a fundamental of playing holding midfield as your screening the back four, your mark a man you can get pulled all over the place. Basic football that is. 

[Benji]

According to Col the problem is that he is playing box-to-box, so this is all very confusing.

It's also confusing that he's apparently allowing the opposition to waltz through us when he has made more interceptions per game than any other midfield player on our books.

Just because he's not running around beating his chest and thundering into tackles it doesn't mean he's not doing a good job of protecting the centre backs.

All of the goals - almost all of the chances - we're conceding are from wide areas at the moment. We're not getting picked apart by anybody (even Southampton) and he is a massive part in that.

Agree with this - I actually think when teams are coming forward we usually look in good shape behind the ball. It's as soon as the ball gets out wide / goes out for a corner that it's panic stations. I can't remember too many teams this season (I guess Chelsea second half) passing the ball around the midfield in front of our goal or slicing us apart through the middle. Now I don't know if the problem lies with our wide players or our centre backs/GK but I'm just not seeing this problem in the middle.

[Fox Ulike]

According to Col the problem is that he is playing box-to-box, so this is all very confusing.

It's also confusing that he's apparently allowing the opposition to waltz through us when he has made more interceptions per game than any other midfield player on our books.

Just because he's not running around beating his chest and thundering into tackles it doesn't mean he's not doing a good job of protecting the centre backs.

All of the goals - almost all of the chances - we're conceding are from wide areas at the moment. We're not getting picked apart by anybody (even Southampton) and he is a massive part in that.

 

He might be playing 'box to box'... what does that even mean? I'm commenting on his actual contribution to the team. I don't think labelling him as this or that is particularly useful. It may be this that is causing your befuddlement.

 

He's not going to race back to cover an out-of-position full-back in the 80th minute. He's not busting a lung to get into the box to support a quick break. He's sitting in the middle of the park and making good use of the ball... is that 'box to box'?

 

Look. In doing what he does, he is doing it well. BUT... we need him to be capable of doing it without having to sacrifice the other midfield position to allow him to do it.

 

He's like Andrew Ridgeley in Wham. (Or Bez in the Happy Mondays if you're a big younger.

[Manwell Pablo]

He might be playing 'box to box'... what does that even mean? I'm commenting on his actual contribution to the team. I don't think labelling him as this or that is particularly useful. It may be this that is causing your befuddlement.

 

He's not going to race back to cover an out-of-position full-back in the 80th minute. He's not busting a lung to get into the box to support a quick break. He's sitting in the middle of the park and making good use of the ball... is that 'box to box'?

 

Look. In doing what he does, he is doing it well. BUT... we need him to be capable of doing it without having to sacrifice the other midfield position to allow him to do it.

 

He's like Andrew Ridgeley in Wham. (Or Bez in the Happy Mondays if you're a big younger.

 

If our midfield were a band only him and King would look capable of playing an instrument, at the minute. 

Drinkwater would struggle with a pair of maracas.

[filbertway]

Despite what some might think, I don't see King as being all the answers - and certainly not without his being given a specific role that he can reasonably be expected to master - but his loss as defensive supplement and his loss as an accurate passer and potential goalscorer is considerable.

 

 

Cambiasso has chipped in with 2 goals this season and I'd argue his passing is better than King's. So basically King should be in there for his height?

 

I would prefer Cambiasso to be used how Lampard is at Man City to be fair, coming on for the last 20-30 where he can play at full pace for his time on the pitch and help calm down matters (assuming we're on track for a decent result). Or help build attacks if we're chasing a result.

[Fox Ulike]

If our midfield were a band only him and King would look capable of playing an instrument, at the minute. 

Drinkwater would struggle with a pair of maracas.

Which is why we needed someone like Cattermole on bongos rather than Cambiasso on his bloody flute!