Prince Andrew

[Merging Cultures]

If I could just point out that this is in relation to court papers filed in America. The judge won't be getting a knighthood and if they were covering it up we wouldn't have heard anything about it.

And a Harvard law professor is accused too, but he has proof he wasn't even in the same place as the accuser, and so is suing her and the lawyers.

Therefore, is the accuser credible? Doesn't seem that way.

[Mike Oxlong]

Any recent examples of that? If all these rich folk are getting away with crimes because they've got one of these magician lawyers then examples should be in abundance. I can't think of any though. Enlighten me.

If anything I'd say the high profile nature of a case like this opens it up to more scrutiny than usual. Ignoring the usual gamut of whack job conspiracy theorists and envy ridden proles there will also be a huge number of experts observing what goes on very closely. I don't see our legal system and media choosing to accept blatant corruption in a case involving child rape just because he's a royal. We're not a third world country.

O.J

Oscar

And going back Jeremy Thorpe, Peter Adamson and Ken Dodd all did better than expected after hiring George Carman QC on a fat fee.

[Rob1742]

Not sure about this one, but there is plenty of evidence that the establishment will protect its people.

The news is full of it at the moment, but they appear to be selective who they prosecute.

Nothing has happened yet about Elm Guest House, probably because too many high profilers were involved.

Was childline created to protect public figures, and ensure things didn't go any further?

Jersey is a prime example of a place where someone in government started to uncover abuse, then he ends up in losing his job and in jail for trying to get to the bottom of it - Stuart Syvret.

With this case, you can bet your boots that pressure will be put on people to ensure it isn't investigated.

The thing is, we don't really take any notice and so it gets forgotten

[Rincewind]

As a young man and having a high profile he would have had women of all ages offering themselves to him.He would not announce it to the press would he? He would have trusted people who could arrange meetings. It has only recently come to light about personalities like DJ's who had liaisons with young girls at the height of their career. Would any sexually active young men turn them away or ask the ages?

I have no doubt that if it goes to court he will have the best lawyers and any flaw in the case they will find and the case will be thrown out of court, something an inexperienced lawyer may not find. Good lawyers do not come cheap and it stands to reason a less wealthy person could not afford the best lawyer who would also have a team alongside looking for the slightest error in statements of witnesses for the prosecution.

 

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

 

Try suing a person with a vast wealth. I know who would run out of money first if it was a lengthy process. 

[Carl the Llama]

As a young man and having a high profile he would have had women of all ages offering themselves to him.He would not announce it to the press would he? He would have trusted people who could arrange meetings. It has only recently come to light about personalities like DJ's who had liaisons with young girls at the height of their career. Would any sexually active young men turn them away or ask the ages?

I have no doubt that if it goes to court he will have the best lawyers and any flaw in the case they will find and the case will be thrown out of court, something an inexperienced lawyer may not find. Good lawyers do not come cheap and it stands to reason a less wealthy person could not afford the best lawyer who would also have a team alongside looking for the slightest error in statements of witnesses for the prosecution.

 

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

 

Try suing a person with a vast wealth. I know who would run out of money first if it was a lengthy process. 

Yes!  I think most men like the idea of not being paedos.  

[MPH]

Though not as tiresome as those who think the rich and powerful are beyond reproach.

 

 

[MPH]

As a young man and having a high profile he would have had women of all ages offering themselves to him.He would not announce it to the press would he? He would have trusted people who could arrange meetings. It has only recently come to light about personalities like DJ's who had liaisons with young girls at the height of their career. Would any sexually active young men turn them away or ask the ages?

I have no doubt that if it goes to court he will have the best lawyers and any flaw in the case they will find and the case will be thrown out of court, something an inexperienced lawyer may not find. Good lawyers do not come cheap and it stands to reason a less wealthy person could not afford the best lawyer who would also have a team alongside looking for the slightest error in statements of witnesses for the prosecution.

 

http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/absolute-power-corrupts-absolutely.html

 

Try suing a person with a vast wealth. I know who would run out of money first if it was a lengthy process. 

 

 

as so its jealousy?

[Rincewind]

 

Yes!  I think most men like the idea of not being paedos.  

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I notice that a lot of you are frothing in the mouth over pictures of girls on Tinder. Can you be sure they are the age portrayed in their profiles? Of course it would be better if you were required to ask for proof of age first. How many men would do this?

 

Anyway I'm getting bored with this topic now. Let's just agree Prince Andrew is innocent unless proven guilty.

[FoxesAreBlue]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I notice that a lot of you are frothing in the mouth over pictures of girls on Tinder. Can you be sure they are the age portrayed in their profiles? Of course it would be better if you were required to ask for proof of age first. How many men would do this?

Anyway I'm getting bored with this topic now. Let's just agree Prince Andrew is innocent unless proven guilty.

Well, he is innocent unless proven guilty.

[Webbo]

Having reads this girls own story in today's paper, assuming it's true;

 

a) She had sex with him in London when she was 17, not illegal.

b) she gave him a massage in Mahattan when she was 17, wasn't specific about whether they had sex, so probably didn't, not sure what the age of consent is in New York.

c) She attended an orgie in the Carribean with him when she was 18, doubt that that's illegal.

 

Doesn't look like there is a case against him even in her own words.

[Mike Oxlong]

Having reads this girls own story in today's paper, assuming it's true;

 

a) She had sex with him in London when she was 17, not illegal.

b) she gave him a massage in Mahattan when she was 17, wasn't specific about whether they had sex, so probably didn't, not sure what the age of consent is in New York.

c) She attended an orgie in the Carribean with him when she was 18, doubt that that's illegal.

 

Doesn't look like there is a case against him even in her own words.

Re b) It would surprise me if that fairy tale didn't have a Happy Ending.

[Steve_Guppy_Left_Foot]

Think he should just do a cover of the fairytale of New York, be done with it.

[purpleronnie]

There are many cases where wealth has played apart in sentencing in America, it's extremely naive to think money doesn't sometimes play a part in the justice system, I'm surprised moose seems to think it doesn't.  It's so common in the states that it's almost a given that your less likely to go to prison if you have money. 

 

Simply the means to get the 'best lawyers' would be one of the key reasons.

[Rob1742]

There are many cases where wealth has played apart in sentencing in America, it's extremely naive to think money doesn't sometimes play a part in the justice system, I'm surprised moose seems to think it doesn't. It's so common in the states that it's almost a given that your less likely to go to prison if you have money.

Simply the means to get the 'best lawyers' would be one of the key reasons.

Money plays a considerable part in many cases. As an example, any lawyer worth their salt will be based in London.

If I had a case to defend, I would be straight down there getting advise rather than those in this area.

You get what you pay for, and solicitors in many remits are not all that good outside the big cities.

A good example of this is when I went to see an employment lawyer several years ago in Leicester. Every question was followed up by her saying "I will need to read up about it" and this was for one of the biggest firms in Leicester.

Recently when I needed advice I contacted a local solicitor, who told me to go to someone in Nottingham, failing that I was given a London name.

Basically solicitors in London at the top end would have been able to get people off charges over the years, and money certainly talks in these situations.

Unfortunately it is not just about being guilty or not guilty, a good percentage of the equation is the quality of brief that you can afford.

[Rincewind]

When I lost my job through my employer going bust a new company took over the site I was a security officer  for. I sought advice because of unpaid wages and ended up with a legal advice lawyer who was a trainee. She  was OK but had to consult at times with senior partners. Partly through my fault with getting dates wrong the case ended up which in footballing terms a draw. It ended up with the new company taking me on if there was an opening in Leicester. I had to write several times reminding them of the agreement and in the end I gave up. I cannot say if there would have been a different outcome if a top lawyer had handled my case but I think it may have been dealt with differently.

I was going through some papers the other week and I found a letter which would have backed up my case. I lost out on compensation because of it. C'est la vie as they say. My lawyer was from Leeds and in the courtroom in Leicester said she left some stuff I had sent her in her office in Leeds.

[Spiritwalker]

Any recent examples of that? If all these rich folk are getting away with crimes because they've got one of these magician lawyers then examples should be in abundance. I can't think of any though. Enlighten me.

If anything I'd say the high profile nature of a case like this opens it up to more scrutiny than usual. Ignoring the usual gamut of whack job conspiracy theorists and envy ridden proles there will also be a huge number of experts observing what goes on very closely. I don't see our legal system and media choosing to accept blatant corruption in a case involving child rape just because he's a royal. We're not a third world country.

Well off the top of my head Sir Jimmy Saville springs to mind. He did not need a magical lawyer he just used his

power and influence to escape justice. I will think of a few more if you like, but you must have a short or selective

memory.

[hebangsthedrums]

Bernie Ecclestone paid to have a bribery charge disappear didn't he?

 

But I don't think its as common as the tin foil hat brigade would have you believe.

[Spiritwalker]

The irony of Ecclestone bribing the authorities to drop a bribery charge is very amusing.

[Mike Oxlong]

Ken, don't think it's just the rich and famous who get away with it. There are plenty of those who can't afford the swanky brief who are remarkably adept at persuading witnesses not to assist a prosecution.

[Rincewind]

I know that. Brawn and money are both a good persuasive..

[Parafox]

Well off the top of my head Sir Jimmy Saville springs to mind. He did not need a magical lawyer he just used his

power and influence to escape justice. I will think of a few more if you like, but you must have a short or selective

memory.

 

I thought he simply died?

[Facecloth]

I thought he simply died?

Exactly, what better way to escape justice than dying.

[Guest MattP]

Quite an incredible read this thread.

Supposedly liberal people prepared to believe a man is guilty before even being accused of doing something illegal. And if not he's obviously using his power and influence to avoid justice.

If it's just as easy to hire a good lawyer for a lot of money and get away with it you have to wonder why Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall and Max Clifford are all doing serious time for their offences.

[Jon the Hat]

don't start in here with your right wing logic!!

[Spiritwalker]

Quite an incredible read this thread.

Supposedly liberal people prepared to believe a man is guilty before even being accused of doing something illegal. And if not he's obviously using his power and influence to avoid justice.

If it's just as easy to hire a good lawyer for a lot of money and get away with it you have to wonder why Rolf Harris, Stuart Hall and Max Clifford are all doing serious time for their offences.

To be fair IMO until he is found guilty of an offence this should not have been made public (difficult I know with social media).

Whether he is guilty or innocent only he and those others involved will know.The point being made was that if he is guilty he

has a far greater chance of evading justice than a normal member of the public, in fact had the alleged offences taken place

in this country I doubt any investigation would have been undertaken.

The 3 names you mention were finally brought to justice years after their offences took place, they used power and

influence to evade justice and were only investigated due to the public outcry over the Saville scandal.