Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Then we go up with a manager who has the worst home record in the division and one of the worst records in premier league history. so we then sack a manager who has just got us promoted?? and replace him with a manager who now has a few months to learn his new squad and change the way they play to suit his tactics No we stick with Pearson if (please note that 'if', I'm aware it will be difficult and I am not saying he'll easily do it) he takes us back up, and see whether he does a better job of adapting with the experience of this season behind him. And then we assess things mid-way through that season.
cc_star Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 The thing is, We have a game in hand (albeit against chelsea) If we win that by some form of miracle, (stranger things have happened) we are only 4 points adrift with 8 games to play... everything to play for... IF WE WERE IN ANY SORT OF FORM OR EVEN LOOKED LIKE SCORING This escape with NOT come with Nigel Pearson at the helm. He cannot get his tactics right, He doesn't know his best team, He cannot get his subs right, and the players no matter how much they say they are, are not confident in themselves or their boss. MARTIN JOL NOW. 100% rather go down with him and keep him in charge than nigel, and he could get us playing. What's his record like of getting relegated teams promoted? What's his record in the Championship like? If no record in Championship, does his skillset match that of managers that have been promoted from the Championship in recent comparable history? If so, nothing to lose... If it's not as good as we've got, then what's the point? - We'll just be joining other teams on the managerial merry-go-round and it might be another decade before we compete at the right end of the Championship again.
Donut Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 No we stick with Pearson if (please note that 'if', I'm aware it will be difficult and I am not saying he'll easily do it) he takes us back up, and see whether he does a better job of adapting with the experience of this season behind him. And then we assess things mid-way through that season. Hypothetical scenario: We stick with Pearson, but we bumble along next season, to the sort of position Forest find themselves in now, but minus the bounce Freedman is bringing. What do you do then? do you give him ANOTHER season in the championship? At what point do loyalties become broken?
cityfanlee23 Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Neither had Felix Magath or Kit Symons. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to do well, of course I'm not. I just think it's a completely unecessary risk to appoint someone with no Championship experience, when we have someone with a great Championship record employed by the club already. Both showing testament to the fact Jol actually had them playing some decent football at fulham, just poor defensively Martin Jol first season 9th Owners sell their top players to bring in around 30m Jol spends 6m and get them to 12th Jol had to pretty much build a squad again... It didn't work out when he tried, He knows football inside out, he had decent enough players, tactics were fine, they just didnt click... You'd have Nigel over him? The championship isn't that different you know....
Donut Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 To be fair, if Fulham had stuck with Jol, they wouldnt have necessarily gone down. Sacking him, sacking Meulensteen, binning Berbatov, spending the money on Mitroglu and never playing him and lumbering the club with Magath sent them down. That was all a result of sacking Jol.
hackneyfox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 When things are positive people will be more positive, People are fickle. Brilliant I'd never have worked that out.People are fickle because situations change, if you just kept believing when everything pointed to you being wrong then you'd be some kind of weird disciple type.
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Hypothetical scenario: We stick with Pearson, but we bumble along next season, to the sort of position Forest find themselves in now, but minus the bounce Freedman is bringing. What do you do then? do you give him ANOTHER season in the championship? At what point do loyalties become broken? I think at that stage I'd become very apathetic and would be deeply saddened by him leaving but not as angry as I would be now certainly. Although if we were in the same position as Forest now I'd wait until the end of the season before making the decision unless there was a great manager available. Both showing testament to the fact Jol actually had them playing some decent football at fulham, just poor defensively Martin Jol first season 9th Owners sell their top players to bring in around 30m Jol spends 6m and get them to 12th Jol had to pretty much build a squad again... It didn't work out when he tried, He knows football inside out, he had decent enough players, tactics were fine, they just didnt click... You'd have Nigel over him? The championship isn't that different you know.... Way to completely avoid the point being made. But anyway, the Championship is very, very different. Plenty of managers and players have had difficulty transitioning between the two. Brilliant I'd never have worked that out. People are fickle because situations change, if you just kept believing when everything pointed to you being wrong then you'd be some kind of weird disciple type. That's exactly the point I was making to Donut who was saying the forum couldn't be positive with Leicester managed by Pearson again. I am not excluding myself from 'people' I'm very much included in that.
ScouseFox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 riyad mahrez could put any fullback in the league on his arse with a dummy. cambiasso's celebrations. kramaric will score 30+ goals next year if he stays. let's be positive...
cityfanlee23 Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 What's his record like of getting relegated teams promoted? What's his record in the Championship like? If no record in Championship, does his skillset match that of managers that have been promoted from the Championship in recent comparable history? If so, nothing to lose... If it's not as good as we've got, then what's the point? - We'll just be joining other teams on the managerial merry-go-round and it might be another decade before we compete at the right end of the Championship again. Please check post above from donut. With regard to his skillset, I'd say hes more than prepared for the championship personally. No we stick with Pearson if (please note that 'if', I'm aware it will be difficult and I am not saying he'll easily do it) he takes us back up, and see whether he does a better job of adapting with the experience of this season behind him. And then we assess things mid-way through that season. Mid way through the premier league season you mean? when we could potentially be bottom again and in the same position as we are now? I'd have agreed with you 100% on this half way through this season even through our barren run, when things looked like they had clicked come December I said let him have the season to grow on the improvement, His arrogance has been unbearable for somebody so out of his depth and the club has suffered from it. His attitude is almost like a disease through such a torrid time. To think this season the survival target is lower than ever and likely to be around 6 pts below the average of 40, we a still almost hopelessly adrift from the pack. Spurs finished in Europa League qualification, like they do every season. Not exactly pulling up trees. What?? League positioning between 1996 - 2004 before Jol Arrived 96/97 - 11th 97/98 - 14th 98/99 - 11th 99/00 - 10th 00/01 - 12th 01/02 - 9th 02/03 - 10th 03/04 - 14th 3 seasons under Jol - 9th, 5th, 5th (all with Martin Jol having players sold behind his back by the board and the majority of big signings made by Damien Comolli) You really should look up the facts before talking rubbish. Jol took spurs from the wilderness and made them the top 6 team they are today, all without him being able to pick his own -players, spurs fans absolutely Love Jol.
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 riyad mahrez could put any fullback in the league on his arse with a dummy. cambiasso's celebrations. kramaric will score 30+ goals next year if he stays. let's be positive... Shush Premier League managers could be scouting the forum, let's not be positive about Mahrez and Kramaric. Bakayogo is the bees knees, Conrad Logan can keep any Premier League striker out, that Paul Gallagher is doing bloody fantastically at Preston.
ScouseFox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 good shout actually, gally can come back and re-tear up the championship next season. another positive.
cityfanlee23 Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 To be fair, if Fulham had stuck with Jol, they wouldnt have necessarily gone down. Sacking him, sacking Meulensteen, binning Berbatov, spending the money on Mitroglu and never playing him and lumbering the club with Magath sent them down. That was all a result of sacking Jol. Not that i'm saying he would necessarily have kept them up, their defence just didn't click all season and he couldn't get it right, But signing Senderos, John Arne Riise and Brede hangelland you can't really say he got his signings wrong individually, they just didn't click for some reason... Add to that the ridiculous amount of unlucky injuries he got... whether that is Jol's fault or not is in the past, the point is he's done alot more good at clubs than bad, and every club he's been at has done significantly well financially from his signings and successes. Those who'd rather have the most unsuccessful yet arrogant premier league manager around over Jol are deluded in my opinion. Martin Jol is a fantastic man manager and has a great tactical awareness, he'd fit in the championship easily. You only have to watch his interviews to see how intelligent he is
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 whether that is Jol's fault or not is in the past, the point is he's done alot more good at clubs than bad, and every club he's been at has done significantly well financially from his signings and successes. Does all of that not apply to Nigel Pearson as well?
cityfanlee23 Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Does all of that not apply to Nigel Pearson as well? That is a fair point, as I said upto december i'd have agreed with you, however he's been so arrogant in defeat when most of the problems lie at his own door, He's made his bed and he has to sleep in it... The difference between Jol and pearson is when Jol had that issue he never made excuses, he explained the issues and tried to rectify them, Nigel has just been down right ignorant, arrogant, and in some cases shown a complete lack of respect to the club, himself, the players and the owners who pay his wages in his spats etc.. Now the spats aren't really an issue for me, but it all goes into the mixing bowl. I love the fact he's a poor loser, I hate the fact he's not good enough to resolve it at this level, and is so arrogant he looks like he will never be at this level, he has a history of taking too long to learn simple things. Set pieces for example.. simple defensive positioning for example.. turning around poor runs of form for example.. Each time these things have happened he's talked about giving ourselves the best possible chance and resolving the issues, but he hasnt... and it is not the first time.
Gerard Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I hate to read all this rubbish about reassessing Pearson after 10 games in the Championship next season. He's been here long enough to have the team he wants, this is his team, they're his players and collectively they've failed. Pearson is toxic at this club, I wouldn't say he's necessarily a bad manager but we need a new manager with fresh ideas. It's unlikely Pearson changes the players about too much as these are the players he wanted. We need a new man with fresh ideas. Ten games in next season and 15th in the Championship means we're only going to get the usual suspects if we sack him and if we stick with him we have a man who doesn't really know what to do next.
Guest Col city fan Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I hate to read all this rubbish about reassessing Pearson after 10 games in the Championship next season. He's been here long enough to have the team he wants, this is his team, they're his players and collectively they've failed. Pearson is toxic at this club, I wouldn't say he's necessarily a bad manager but we need a new manager with fresh ideas. It's unlikely Pearson changes the players about too much as these are the players he wanted. We need a new man with fresh ideas. Ten games in next season and 15th in the Championship means we're only going to get the usual suspects if we sack him and if we stick with him we have a man who doesn't really know what to do next. I agree with this completely.Let's freshen the club up. Get a manager with whom the fans can associate with more (I know some do like Pearson). A change of players. Keep some, change some. I'd like to start afresh next season personally. A new man with some new ideas. It might work, it might not. Keeping Pearson might work, it might not. But let's roll the dice. Throw the balls in the air and see what comes down. Sometimes a change is needed. I too think Pearson has become a little toxic. We know him, we know what to expect. We know his goods and his bads. How about a new approach? It might pinch a little to start, but I'm willing to take the chance. After this campaign, both on and off the field, I've grown tired of Pearson personally. I don't relish the thought, to be honest, of starting next season in the Championship (if we go down) with the same management team at the helm. I simply feel it's time for a change of direction at the club.
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Let's freshen the club up. Get a manager with whom the fans can associate with more (I know some do like Pearson). People are all very different, sacking managers on the basis that some fans can't associate with them will result in us never having a manager. I'd suggest that based on the support Nigel has held onto through a lot of this awful season, a large section of our fans can relate to him and do like him. I know you're acknowledging that, but the divide between the fans will exist with basically any manager, unless we can find one who always wins because that's really the only thing that does unite fans in support of a manger for any length of time.
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I hate to read all this rubbish about reassessing Pearson after 10 games in the Championship next season. He's been here long enough to have the team he wants, this is his team, they're his players and collectively they've failed. He signed the majority of them with the aim of promotion to the Premier League and they undeniably succeeded. Building a succesful Premier League club on top of a good Championship side is not easy. Burnley have done an incredible job, but you look at QPR who spent three times as much as us and are in just as bad a position as us and it's clear that it's not the easiest task in the world. They are his players, but collectively they have succeeded in moving the club forward, not to the lengths we'd have liked, but most did do what we signed them to do and they did it convincingly last season. We didn't build on that very well, but that's one bad summer, you can't write someone off because of one bad transfer window when his track record is generally pretty good. It's why I'd like him to continue, he learned so well from 2012/13 about what slight changes needed to be made to succeed in 2013/14, and I see no reason why he can't do the same if he earns a second crack at the Premier League. I'd like to see if he can do that with us rather than let someone else have him. Pearson is toxic at this club, I wouldn't say he's necessarily a bad manager but we need a new manager with fresh ideas. It's unlikely Pearson changes the players about too much as these are the players he wanted. We need a new man with fresh ideas. Ten games in next season and 15th in the Championship means we're only going to get the usual suspects if we sack him and if we stick with him we have a man who doesn't really know what to do next. What on earth makes you think we'd be 15th in the Championship after ten games next season. There's no reason to think that might happen under Pearson, under a different manager sure, but Pearson's record would suggest that's highly unlikely.
Mike Oxlong Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 Aren't Burnley putting up a decent scrap with pretty much the same side as last year, a team that we finished 9 points clear of. And to think we ended the season 22 points better off than QPR.
DANGEROUS TIGER Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 MARTIN JOL HAS NEVER MANAGED IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. NIGEL PEARSON HAS FINISHED IN THE TOP 6 EVERY FULL SEASON HE'S HAD IN CHARGE OF LEICESTER CITY IN THE CHAMPIONSHIP. Plus my post is just as bold and capitalised as yours and in a slightly larger font so I'm right. I wouldn't want him personally, but please explain the relevance of the fact that he, "has never managed in the Championship". You wont be able to, because it is totally, irrelevant!
Mark_w Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I wouldn't want him personally, but please explain the relevance of the fact that he, "has never managed in the Championship". You wont be able to, because it is totally, irrelevant! I'm not saying it's impossible for him to do well, of course I'm not. I just think it's a completely unecessary risk to appoint someone with no Championship experience, when we have someone with a great Championship record employed by the club already.
lifted*fox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I'm positive tbh. I'm neither here nor there about Pearson. I think he's done a wonderful job to get us here. Yes he's made some mistakes but so would most managers in their first season in the Premier League. I think he's struggling but hey ho. The Premier League for me hasn't been anything to sing & dance about. Yes I want my team to be competing at the top. I have however thought that the quality hasn't been anything amazing (which makes it a bit more annoying that we've had a mare). I can count the number of amazing Premier League 'wonder goals' I've seen on one hand. I miss the regularity of the games in the Championship. I also think the refereeing has been total shit and the cheating / diving is of a much higher rate. I went into this season with a realistic expectation - it would have been nice if we'd done a Swansea or a Southampton but I thought worst case scenario, we come back down - more teams come down again than stay up. I think we've got a great set-up at the club. We're out of debt, we have owners who, despite what some say, have been measured and sensible for the most part. We're in a much better place than under Madaric. Hopefully if we go down, we'll bounce back up again. This forum is one of my 'daily reads' and gets 20 minutes of an evening. It's turned into an unbearable shit-hole full of people thinking they know better than everyone else, on either side of the argument. It's pathetic tbh and I very much think that far too many people came into this season with unrealistic expectations. We stay up, we crack on. We go down, we crack on. The world keeps turning.
Callabinho Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 One positive is we only have to endure 6 more home games.
sylofox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I agree with this completely. Let's freshen the club up. Get a manager with whom the fans can associate with more (I know some do like Pearson). A change of players. Keep some, change some. I'd like to start afresh next season personally. A new man with some new ideas. It might work, it might not. Keeping Pearson might work, it might not. But let's roll the dice. Throw the balls in the air and see what comes down. Sometimes a change is needed. I too think Pearson has become a little toxic. We know him, we know what to expect. We know his goods and his bads. How about a new approach? It might pinch a little to start, but I'm willing to take the chance. After this campaign, both on and off the field, I've grown tired of Pearson personally. I don't relish the thought, to be honest, of starting next season in the Championship (if we go down) with the same management team at the helm. I simply feel it's time for a change of direction at the club. I think I am with you on most of this Col. The reason I comment very little on this is the pure bile some spout. NP is fvcking shite he is not a manager is most of the comments about him. Yes he has had a bad season and may be out of his depth but people should still have some respect for a manager that has won us two titles. I think I can also say them using these comments have no idea what it takes to run a professional team or even a park team. I also hope in the future Nige comes out and tells what went wrong in the summer. Did he get the players he wanted and did we even go in for them. From a commercial point of view I do think he will have to go at the end of the season as ticket sales will fall drastically with him in charge next season. One positive is we only have to endure 6 more home games. 18pts may just do us
lifted*fox Posted 18 March 2015 Posted 18 March 2015 I think I can also say them using these comments have no idea what it takes to run a professional team or even a park team. That's what makes me laugh the most. Most people on this forum have **** all knowledge of actually running a football team, let alone a successful one and still they go on like they have all the answers.
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