The EU referendum - IN / OUT or Shake it all about.

[davieG]

After all this 'debate' I don't believe I'm more informed than I was at the start for every argument for staying / leaving put forward it's followed by a counter argument.

 

So at best there's either a lot of ignorance, purposeful misrepresenting or at worst down right lies.

 

 

It would seem that it's going to come down to gut feel which is hardly a great basis on which to make a decision which will have a long term good or bad effect on the Country.

 

I was on the leave side but the longer it goes on the more confused I become I'm drifting back to staying which doesn't sit well with me as someone who was happy just to have a common market agreement.

[danfox76]

hi guys please share and make this video viral..

https://youtu.be/eYqzcqDtL3k

your children and grandchildrens lives literally depend on it.. people need to know what they are voting for, its the most important vote uk citizens will ever cast.

i cannot stress how important this is.

 

After all this 'debate' I don't believe I'm more informed than I was at the start for every argument for staying / leaving put forward it's followed by a counter argument.

 

So at best there's either a lot of ignorance, purposeful misrepresenting or at worst down right lies.

 

 

It would seem that it's going to come down to gut feel which is hardly a great basis on which to make a decision which will have a long term good or bad effect on the Country.

 

I was on the leave side but the longer it goes on the more confused I become I'm drifting back to staying which doesn't sit well with me as someone who was happy just to have a common market agreement.

did you watch the video? basically unless you are one of the elite or a multi national corporation you have nothing to gain by staying in the EU

[DJ Barry Hammond]

After all this 'debate' I don't believe I'm more informed than I was at the start for every argument for staying / leaving put forward it's followed by a counter argument.

 

So at best there's either a lot of ignorance, purposeful misrepresenting or at worst down right lies.

 

It would seem that it's going to come down to gut feel which is hardly a great basis on which to make a decision which will have a long term good or bad effect on the Country.

 

I was on the leave side but the longer it goes on the more confused I become I'm drifting back to staying which doesn't sit well with me as someone who was happy just to have a common market agreement.

Try this...https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/leave_remain_the_facts_behind_the_claims.pdf My understanding is this is an impartial framing of the arguments as presented by each camp.

And in terms of voting down to gut feeling - that's all you can do really.

[davieG]

did you watch the video? basically unless you are one of the elite or a multi national corporation you have nothing to gain by staying in the EU

....and the'll be someone saying the complete opposite or at best denying it.

 

Why should I believe any of them from either side of the argument.

[theessexfox]

The video does raise some good points from what I've seen so far.

[danfox76]

....and the'll be someone saying the complete opposite or at best denying it.

 

Why should I believe any of them from either side of the argument.

you shouldn't.. you should make your own mind up by gathering the facts.. just remember your vote affects your children your grandchildren and generations to come...

 

Brexit

[davieG]

you shouldn't.. you should make your own mind up by gathering the facts.. just remember your vote affects your children your grandchildren and generations to come...

 

Brexit

That's  my point there are no indisputable  facts each one that is claimed as a fact is denied by the opposition.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

That's my point there are no indisputable facts each one that is claimed as a fact is denied by the opposition.

So take yourself away from the national argument and consider the impact on yourself personally.

Would your job be effected if trade rules changed? How would your family be effected in terms of opportunity? What do you see happening around you with your own eyes? Would changes effect the things you like to do, like travel?

Think of a few personal areas that are important priorities to you both for now and in the future, and consider arguments around them with a 'sense test'.

And if it comes to a point that you just can't decide - you could always spoil the paper.

[johnny the fox]

It is an irony, that generally, the left want to remain, but by doing so, it is creating an anti-left cause.

 

The EU has 4 Presidents. I haven't voted for one of them!

10,000 EU employers earn more than the British PM.

 

Why the hell were we ever forced...in...this...monster...

The real danger is the further away the decision makers are from the people the more democracy suffers,,, and radicals fill the void.. staying in is heading for disaster.. 

[digitalalba]

After all this 'debate' I don't believe I'm more informed than I was at the start for every argument for staying / leaving put forward it's followed by a counter argument.

 

So at best there's either a lot of ignorance, purposeful misrepresenting or at worst down right lies.

 

 

It would seem that it's going to come down to gut feel which is hardly a great basis on which to make a decision which will have a long term good or bad effect on the Country.

 

I was on the leave side but the longer it goes on the more confused I become I'm drifting back to staying which doesn't sit well with me as someone who was happy just to have a common market agreement.

The reason you feel like the arguments flowing that way, is because if all the answers were put across accurately, then the debate would be over, and the media would have to find something else for us to watch. The media will stifle the debate until about 9.30pm June 23.

 

The best thing to do, is gather the information your self, then make up your mind. Start with 'Brexit The Movie'.

 

 

Should we be voting to leave the EU, or voting to kick them out of our country

[digitalalba]

The real danger is the further away the decision makers are from the people the more democracy suffers,,, and radicals fill the void.. staying in is heading for disaster.. 

True. Support for the far right of countries in the EU, except Britain, is growing rapidly. France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Greece. There are hundreds of thousands of people getting involved.

 

In Spain, ETA have re-opened their tendancy to bomb their enemies, targeting resorts. Malaga airport the other day. They know there is anger in the streets. There are many very small groups of teenagers on the south coast targeting foreigners. Unemployment in Spain is very big, especially amongst the young. Spain needs to take control of their own destiny.

 

The EU simply doesn't cater for the people, that's their biggest problem. Whereas, a Nationalist organization is a devotion to the people.

[leicsmac]

True. Support for the far right of countries in the EU, except Britain, is growing rapidly. France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Greece. There are hundreds of thousands of people getting involved.

 

In Spain, ETA have re-opened their tendancy to bomb their enemies, targeting resorts. Malaga airport the other day. They know there is anger in the streets. There are many very small groups of teenagers on the south coast targeting foreigners. Unemployment in Spain is very big, especially amongst the young. Spain needs to take control of their own destiny.

 

The EU simply doesn't cater for the people, that's their biggest problem. Whereas, a Nationalist organization is a devotion to the people.

 

The whole EU debate aside (which I'm still on the fence about), support of the far right and extreme nationalism across Europe should scare any sane human being to death, considering how it has turned out in the past.

[danfox76]

all this far right BS is just fear porn designed to make you make the wrong choice.. people need to wake up and see past it.. its just a label they give to people like you and i who have been shafted by the system and vent anger..

 

Actually everyone paying tax to the E.U. is being shafted.. 

[Finnaldo]

True. Support for the far right of countries in the EU, except Britain, is growing rapidly. France, Germany, Hungary, Italy, Greece. There are hundreds of thousands of people getting involved.

In Spain, ETA have re-opened their tendancy to bomb their enemies, targeting resorts. Malaga airport the other day. They know there is anger in the streets. There are many very small groups of teenagers on the south coast targeting foreigners. Unemployment in Spain is very big, especially amongst the young. Spain needs to take control of their own destiny.

The EU simply doesn't cater for the people, that's their biggest problem. Whereas, a Nationalist organization is a devotion to the people.

So you want to counter far right Nationalist terrorism by.... Electing a far right government.

Jesus Christ

[bovril]

There seems to be this attitude that when something bad happens in a European country, it must be the fault of the EU therefore we have to leave.

 

Extremist parties on the right and left are making ground all over Europe for many reasons. Move from industrial to post-industrial societies, dissatisfaction with neo-liberal, trickle down economics, widespread corruption, mass movement of people as a consequence of global inequality, disastrous foreign policy. It's happened before the EU and it'll happen after, the idea that we leave and all the nasty things go away is naive in the extreme.

 

There are plenty of left-leaning people who accept people's concerns about the EU but see them as part of a wider argument.

[IrememberBobHazell]

I take some of the points above.

 I am STILL undecided even at this late stage. The campaign is a pretty unedifying one but what resonates most with me at the moment is the realisation that this is a generational opportunity to get out of an organisation that is heading in a direction I don't really like and its planned future expansion fills me more with concern than optimism.

 Sad thing is the argument seems to be winnable for the side which puts the most fear into the electorate and that is something I truly dislike.

[Rincewind]

Take away the fear factor and there is little left for either side. I was in but now I am veering on out at the moment but in the end it may come down to my closed eyes and a pin.

[m4DD0gg]

 

Brexit the Movie.

 

Brilliant documentary.

[johnny the fox]

Always makes me laugh when the politicians warn and terrify us about  all the trade tariffs / barriers we will face if we come out.....hold on a minute... these are the same fookers who dreamed them all up in the first place...ordinary people can trade all of the world without these c u n t s sticking their ten penneth in... they are the problem not the solution...they have a vested interest..along with the big multi nationals..

[The Guvnor]

 

Brexit the Movie.

 

Brilliant documentary.

 

 

The suggestion that the likes of D C want us to stay in the EU so they can have an exceptionally well paid job at the end of their political careers is probably not too far from the truth, Tony Blair must be doing ok thank you very much

The EU really is the goose that lays golden egg's for thousands of Eurocrats and sh*ts on the rest of us.

 

VOTE LEAVE

[Wymsey]

Getting fed up of the 'why we should leave/why staying is the best option' leaflets through the post.

Certain authorities are sounding desperate for their own needs.

[johnny the fox]

Paxman program ...car crash TV for the EU....we MUST get out! 

[digitalalba]

The whole EU debate aside (which I'm still on the fence about), support of the far right and extreme nationalism across Europe should scare any sane human being to death, considering how it has turned out in the past.

Depends whether you believe the victors of war, they're the only one's who get to write the 'history'.

 

For example, Jewish people had good lives in Germany prior to the war, better generally than Germans.

Hitler stood up for the rights of the people when the Jewish bankers thought they were in charge = war.

Hitler and the Nazi party were good friends with the British, including the royal family and Churchill.

The Swastika, btw, is a symbol of the Sun. You'll find it in many Chinese restaurants.

 

If you push people too much, they're likely to either give-in, or fight back.

If you control most of the media, you can control what people see - thus believe.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Depends whether you believe the victors of war, they're the only one's who get to write the 'history'.

 

For example, Jewish people had good lives in Germany prior to the war, better generally than Germans.

Hitler stood up for the rights of the people when the Jewish bankers thought they were in charge = war.

Hitler and the Nazi party were good friends with the British, including the royal family and Churchill.

The Swastika, btw, is a symbol of the Sun. You'll find it in many Chinese restaurants.

 

If you push people too much, they're likely to either give-in, or fight back.

If you control most of the media, you can control what people see - thus believe.

Some of what you say has some similarities to the French Revolution.

[Finnaldo]

Some of what you say has some similarities to the French Revolution.

His view of Britain seems to be one of bloody reprisals and social division to salvage some Nationalistic image and power.

Funny thing is it's likely to result in Britain becoming even weaker and more vulnerable to US or EU influence in the aftermath.

Although I'd vote out, I'd hope we'd quickly find a more moderate government to find new trade deals and to a sensible extent de-regularise industry and it's products and keep the country steady for the first few years.

We need moderation and stability in what could be a challenging few years, not a government that would harken back to the most needlessly bloody and destructive period of modern history.