Gabriel Barbosa

[Bunyip]

2 hours ago, Babylon said:

Because if we were going to spend it we'd have looked like we were going to already.

 

We are not a big club, it's impossible to compete long term with teams much bigger than us. It's not about not wanting to compete but being realistic.

 

The owners have said they want us to stand on our own two feet, so we can forget huge investment from them. So we can only spend what we earn.

 

The champions league money and money for finishing so high was always likely to be a one off. Our earnings are likely to plummet next season, yet all the players we sign we're paying their very lucrative contracts for four years. They all still need funding!

 

Before we even start think of FFP implications and being limited to certain yearly increases. And stadium expansions that everyone wants and also need paying for.

 

Ramp wages up too much and in a few years our wage bill will just about match income and people will wonder why we don't sign players.

 

The owners look like they are taking the long term view, and they will continue doing what we've done in other years that made us succeed. Careful targeted investment, but nothing ott.

 

 

 

 

Fair enough good points 

[jayfox26]

12 hours ago, Babylon said:

Because if we were going to spend it we'd have looked like we were going to already.

 

We are not a big club, it's impossible to compete long term with teams much bigger than us. It's not about not wanting to compete but being realistic.

 

The owners have said they want us to stand on our own two feet, so we can forget huge investment from them. So we can only spend what we earn.

 

The champions league money and money for finishing so high was always likely to be a one off. Our earnings are likely to plummet next season, yet all the players we sign we're paying their very lucrative contracts for four years. They all still need funding!

 

Before we even start think of FFP implications and being limited to certain yearly increases. And stadium expansions that everyone wants and also need paying for.

 

Ramp wages up too much and in a few years our wage bill will just about match income and people will wonder why we don't sign players.

 

The owners look like they are taking the long term view, and they will continue doing what we've done in other years that made us succeed. Careful targeted investment, but nothing ott.

 

 

 

 

Whilst I agree with what you're saying and I am definitely a believer in the owners looking out for the long term future of the club, the ffp argument I don't buy. If Wolves can potentially sign Luisao and have him on reported £100k a week wages, I'm sure we can spend a little cash. Our net spend this summer is minimal compared to most clubs! I believe we should be wary of the long term financial stability of the club but not at the expense of competing at the top level. Yes we cannot compete with United, Chelsea and City but when we have spent virtually nothing when you consider how much we got for Kante. And Barbosa for example may be a pretty expensive outlay but if he ends up being as good as people think he could be, he would be a decent investment. Although the signings we've made so far have been decent is still feel we are 2 players away from where we should be. 

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, jayfox26 said:

Whilst I agree with what you're saying and I am definitely a believer in the owners looking out for the long term future of the club, the ffp argument I don't buy. If Wolves can potentially sign Luisao and have him on reported £100k a week wages, I'm sure we can spend a little cash. Our net spend this summer is minimal compared to most clubs! I believe we should be wary of the long term financial stability of the club but not at the expense of competing at the top level. Yes we cannot compete with United, Chelsea and City but when we have spent virtually nothing when you consider how much we got for Kante. And Barbosa for example may be a pretty expensive outlay but if he ends up being as good as people think he could be, he would be a decent investment. Although the signings we've made so far have been decent is still feel we are 2 players away from where we should be. 

Not sure how wolves compare, FFP is a complicated beast. At their level all that happens is a fine if you get promoted...which like us isn't payable unless you go down.

 

I've not looked into it greatly but there is a seemingly more complicated system in the prem.  

[psychonaut]

On 20 August 2016 at 10:14, Babylon said:

Because if we were going to spend it we'd have looked like we were going to already.

 

We are not a big club, it's impossible to compete long term with teams much bigger than us. It's not about not wanting to compete but being realistic.

 

The owners have said they want us to stand on our own two feet, so we can forget huge investment from them. So we can only spend what we earn.

 

The champions league money and money for finishing so high was always likely to be a one off. Our earnings are likely to plummet next season, yet all the players we sign we're paying their very lucrative contracts for four years. They all still need funding!

 

Before we even start think of FFP implications and being limited to certain yearly increases. And stadium expansions that everyone wants and also need paying for.

 

Ramp wages up too much and in a few years our wage bill will just about match income and people will wonder why we don't sign players.

 

The owners look like they are taking the long term view, and they will continue doing what we've done in other years that made us succeed. Careful targeted investment, but nothing ott.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm not so sure this is true.. The broadcasting deal worth over £5bn kicks in this season. Through seasons 16/17 -19/20. The club that finishes bottom this season could potentially net around £100M up from about £66M last season.

[Babylon]

2 minutes ago, psychonaut said:

 

I'm not so sure this is true.. The broadcasting deal worth over £5bn kicks in this season. Through seasons 16/17 -19/20. The club that finishes bottom this season could potentially net around £100M up from about £66M last season.

We're not going to be in champions league, so there's £20-40m gone instantly.

[st albans fox]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We're not going to be in champions league, so there's £20-40m gone instantly.

But still 120m whilst we retain PL status

 

 

[Babylon]

1 hour ago, st albans fox said:

But still 120m whilst we retain PL status

 

 

Are people arguing against profits dropping when they are going to if we don't stay in the champions league? It's a fact so I don't get the arguments.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

9 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Are people arguing against profits dropping when they are going to if we don't stay in the champions league? It's a fact so I don't get the arguments.

I would imagine that Mahrez would be allowed to leave for a pretty penny once we've dropped out of the Champions League which will plug the gap for a year.

 

Its a tricky one to judge and I really dont envy the board or managers position.  Whilst this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and there's a school of thought that says invest now and try and get a foothold, we dont want to end up like Leeds and be lumbered with stupidly high wages with no European football to prop it up.

 

In my eyes, I think we should almost pretend that last year didnt happen (in transfer terms), realise that year on year, top 6-10 is what we'll be looking /aiming at and go from there.

 

Obviously if we carry on defying the odds and end up in the Champions League for a few years, re-evalute then.

[Leer0506]

My first post. Hi fellas found this fingers crossed and toes and anything else I can cross!

 

 

[Kitchandro]

16 hours ago, Babylon said:

Are people arguing against profits dropping when they are going to if we don't stay in the champions league? It's a fact so I don't get the arguments.

Isn't this the risk everyone takes when they spend money?

 

i totally get the living within your means argument but pretending last year didn't is stupid. The fact is we won the league by 10 points last season, we didn't scrape top 4. Why resign ourselves to midtable? If we could just make 2 good signings in the right positions champions league football is very attainable. 

 

can I point out our net spend so far must be very low compared to other teams of our size.

[Babylon]

16 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

I would imagine that Mahrez would be allowed to leave for a pretty penny once we've dropped out of the Champions League which will plug the gap for a year.

I think the point is there won't be a gap to plug if we do things sensibly, anyway the original post touched on more points than just the champions league so the convo is heading in the wrong direction as there is more to it than just that.

 

16 hours ago, Realist Guy In The Room said:

Its a tricky one to judge and I really dont envy the board or managers position.  Whilst this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and there's a school of thought that says invest now and try and get a foothold, we dont want to end up like Leeds and be lumbered with stupidly high wages with no European football to prop it up.

 

In my eyes, I think we should almost pretend that last year didnt happen (in transfer terms), realise that year on year, top 6-10 is what we'll be looking /aiming at and go from there.

 

Obviously if we carry on defying the odds and end up in the Champions League for a few years, re-evalute then.

I think it's sort of how the owners will look at it, last year was glorious, but the end goal remains the same. That's being an established club and fighting for European spots, whilst trying for steady growth of the club. To the point where some day we might be more on a level with the Spurs / Everton / Villa / Newcastle, size of club (and I'm talking size not where they are in the league currently).... rather that the Saints, Norwich, Derby which is the level we're seen as.

[Babylon]

28 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

can I point out our net spend so far must be very low compared to other teams of our size.

It's not just about one season in isolation, we've actually spent a lot of money. Our net spend in the last 5 years is £63m according to this, putting us as the 9th biggest spenders and that's with just two years in the prem. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

 

If that's correct ('ve not fact checked it). If we went out and spent the Kante money people keep asking us to we'd be the easily the 7th biggest spenders nett outside the big boys and West Ham.

[Phube]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

It's not just about one season in isolation, we've actually spent a lot of money. Our net spend in the last 5 years is £63m according to this, putting us as the 9th biggest spenders and that's with just two years in the prem. http://www.transferleague.co.uk/premier-league-last-five-seasons/transfer-league-tables/premier-league-table-last-five-seasons

 

If that's correct ('ve not fact checked it). If we went out and spent the Kante money people keep asking us to we'd be the easily the 7th biggest spenders nett outside the big boys and West Ham.

No way is that's right, as we've sold Kante (30 odd), Krammy (5-7ish) and Nugent (~4). Alone.

 

Thats >40 already!

 

[Babylon]

6 minutes ago, Phube said:

No way is that's right, as we've sold Kante (30 odd), Krammy (5-7ish) and Nugent (~4). Alone.

 

Thats >40 already!

 

It's probably not exactly right, as most fees are never even released. But I'd say it's in the ball park give or take £5m. We must have spent £40m+ last season alone

[Ric Flair]

The problem we've got is we are getting conflicting actions, our owners have gone on record as saying Ranieri can sign who he wants. We've also won the league and qualified for Europe and both the owners and Ranieri have said they will make some quality additions. The fans have interpreted all of this as us having a right good thrash at bringing in the very best given our stock is as high as it's ever likely to be right now. I understand the dangers of doing this long term but the grotesque amounts of money in the PL right now shows it's nowhere near as precarious as it once was. Look at Newcastle, owned by a horrible fleecing coont but who has blown a lot of wedge at certain times and they've got relegated and there's no fire sale nor penny pinching. In fact they are spending like there's no tomorrow. Now, I'm not saying what they are doing is in any way a model to follow but it's an insight in to there being very little initial restriction of money when you get relegated these days.

 

I think we're already secure enough to go out and purchase 2 elite players and not have to worry what knock on effect it might have should we get too big for our boots in the next year or so. Players of such ilk will also have a very good resale value and that's not to mention the other jewels in our squad.

 

But what is irking me slightly is money most definitely isn't an issue for us nor are we trying to be overtly cautious, I genuinely believe we're not going out of our way to buy anymore players because the club are happy with what we've got and that I think is worrying. The £20+ million bids for Deeney, the £15 million bids for Michael Keane and the supposed willingness to offer over £20 million for Gabriel Barbosa and similar amounts for Parades and Lemina show that we will chuff up the dough but as these players aren't for sale, we don't seem to be proactive in looking elsewhere. 9 days left of the window is not a long time for a club that's notorious for being slow at getting transfers over the line, I've lost all faith of last minute signings after the debacle in January which in the end didn't matter but if fans think we're still going to get a few players in then they are massively optimistic as it goes against everything we've been doing.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

I think the point is there won't be a gap to plug if we do things sensibly, anyway the original post touched on more points than just the champions league so the convo is heading in the wrong direction as there is more to it than just that.

 

I think it's sort of how the owners will look at it, last year was glorious, but the end goal remains the same. That's being an established club and fighting for European spots, whilst trying for steady growth of the club. To the point where some day we might be more on a level with the Spurs / Everton / Villa / Newcastle, size of club (and I'm talking size not where they are in the league currently).... rather that the Saints, Norwich, Derby which is the level we're seen as.

Agree with that and as a fan i'd be more than happy with that strategy.

 

I do wish the comments about Ranieri signing who he wants and new 60,000 seater stadiums would stop.

 

 

[st albans fox]

Conspiracy theory could say it's a very clever strategy to offer big dough for players that you know won't come or aren't for sale. Placates the fans whilst keeping the money 'in house'

 

I'm not staying this is the case but we were apparently desperate to sign a striker in Jan but it never happened........

[Ric Flair]

9 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

Conspiracy theory could say it's a very clever strategy to offer big dough for players that you know won't come or aren't for sale. Placates the fans whilst keeping the money 'in house'

 

I'm not staying this is the case but we were apparently desperate to sign a striker in Jan but it never happened........

I don't think January is an indicator of this as we had a fee agreed for that bloke from Sampdoria who was set to come until Inter made some whiffy deal. I do think you might have a point this summer though, we've put some big bids in for Deeney and Keane and then not moved on to other targets really. Just kind of left it.

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't think January is an indicator of this as we had a fee agreed for that bloke from Sampdoria who was set to come until Inter made some whiffy deal. I do think you might have a point this summer though, we've put some big bids in for Deeney and Keane and then not moved on to other targets really. Just kind of left it.

Well Musa came in after Deeney, so we'll never know if it would have been both or either one or the other.

 

I'm sure we've had several targets, but as soon as you've been through your say top 3 or 4 and you can't get them... then you get into a position of do you stick or twist. Are they better than what you have etc. Do you wait and get them futher down the line (see Musa).

[st albans fox]

1 minute ago, Ric Flair said:

I don't think January is an indicator of this as we had a fee agreed for that bloke from Sampdoria who was set to come until Inter made some whiffy deal. I do think you might have a point this summer though, we've put some big bids in for Deeney and Keane and then not moved on to other targets really. Just kind of left it.

And if we knew he would choose inter?  ........

 

Remy apparently fell through at the last minute 

 

as they say - talk is cheap!  

 

We'll see what happens over the next week. If we have designs on making top 4 and making a fist of CL qualification then we need a couple of quality additions. 

 

Maybe be they are waiting to see what kind of group we get before deciding. 

[HighPeakFox]

Some very good points being made here, with some apparent thought to the difficulties of the whole marry go round...

[Babylon]

7 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

And if we knew he would choose inter?  ........

 

Remy apparently fell through at the last minute 

 

as they say - talk is cheap!  

 

We'll see what happens over the next week. If we have designs on making top 4 and making a fist of CL qualification then we need a couple of quality additions. 

 

Maybe be they are waiting to see what kind of group we get before deciding. 

Well we did go back and get Musa after failing in Jan, so I'm not sure it was any kind of smoke screen. It's just very hard to get players, plenty of premier league clubs have found that.

[st albans fox]

7 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Well we did go back and get Musa after failing in Jan, so I'm not sure it was any kind of smoke screen. It's just very hard to get players, plenty of premier league clubs have found that.

Like I said babs, just putting it out there. Whilst we have spent money since promotion, taking into account the low wage bill last two seasons wrt our income, and the success we have had, we haven't needed to see how much the owners would have been willing to invest in making us successful. 

 

Making may it continue but I suspect the general rule that expenditure equals average league position will come back to the fore. We have a head start - be a shame to lose it but got to be realistic I guess. 

[Nick]

He wants to go to Barca apparently... (Shock news)

[Ric Flair]

55 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

And if we knew he would choose inter?  ........

 

Remy apparently fell through at the last minute 

 

as they say - talk is cheap!  

 

We'll see what happens over the next week. If we have designs on making top 4 and making a fist of CL qualification then we need a couple of quality additions. 

 

Maybe be they are waiting to see what kind of group we get before deciding. 

There's putting a few feeler bids out for whatever reason but I highly doubt we'd agree a few for a player if we had no intention of bringing him in or someone else in that position. I know we messed James McArthur about but that was genuinely because Cambiasso was a precarious transfer and with only days left in the transfer window we had to act quickly to get another midfielder in.