Dalian Atkinson - dead after being tasered by Police - Reports

[ozleicester]

1 hour ago, DB11 said:

#BlackLivesMatter Another story for the extremist group to latch onto and incite violence.

 

I mean it's not like the police would have used a taser on him for no reason. It's not like he wouldn't have been posing a danger to either himself or others. Oh no, the police just tasered him cos he was black

Wow,im almost speechless, what on earth is happening in your life to feel the need to say such a thing.

 

[The Railway Man]

4 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

My default stance, as is English law, is that everyone is innocent until proven guilty. This not only applies to Atkinson, but also to the police present. I hope you don't ever do jury service mate. 

Used to be, in reality it's not though, ask anyone accused of racism or peadophilia and it's pretty much on them to prove they aren't guilty in this day and age.

[Fox92]

11 minutes ago, ozleicester said:

Wow,im almost speechless, what on earth is happening in your life to feel the need to say such a thing.

 

I think it's because, at the minute there seems to be this assumption that every black person is killed/injured just because they are black. Leaving the US aside, the Police in this Country won't tazer anybody without them needing too and it's just sad that he has died because tazer's are obviously a safer alternative to guns.

[The Railway Man]

20 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I think it's because, at the minute there seems to be this assumption that every black person is killed/injured just because they are black. Leaving the US aside, the Police in this Country won't tazer anybody without them needing too and it's just sad that he has died because tazer's are obviously a safer alternative to guns.

Far too much common sense spoken here for this  forum.

[MPH]

2 hours ago, Balj said:

Unfortunately tasers are lethal for some people (for example those with elevated heart rates) so should be treated as such.  I wasn't spoiling for an argument and totally agree about waiting before passing judgement.  

 

 

Its sad to say that pretty much any method of restraint/ control by police will always be lethal to someone somewhere. Even putting someone in a headlock to restrain a violent offender can give someone somewhere a heart attack...

 

 

I don't know a solution on using a method of restraint that is completely safe to every single person on the planet.

 

 

so what do the police do for someone who is violent and endangering people? just not restrain them?

[Burmesefox]

48 minutes ago, The Railway Man said:

Used to be, in reality it's not though, ask anyone accused of racism or peadophilia and it's pretty much on them to prove they aren't guilty in this day and age.

In reality, legally speaking, that clearly isn't the case. If you are talking about tittle tattle, social media rumours, and the lynch mob of Sun/Daily Mail/Express readers then yes socially and anecdotally there may be an element of truth. Having said that, what the Tories are doing to the justice system now means the poor are less likely to get away with accusations and plea bargaining is filtering into the sytem. 

[Webbo]

7 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

In reality, legally speaking, that clearly isn't the case. If you are talking about tittle tattle, social media rumours, and the lynch mob of Sun/Daily Mail/Express readers then yes socially and anecdotally there may be an element of truth. Having said that, what the Tories are doing to the justice system now means the poor are less likely to get away with accusations and plea bargaining is filtering into the sytem. 

Aren't blacklivesmatter a mob? Are those the kind of papers they read?

[The Railway Man]

9 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

In reality, legally speaking, that clearly isn't the case. If you are talking about tittle tattle, social media rumours, and the lynch mob of Sun/Daily Mail/Express readers then yes socially and anecdotally there may be an element of truth. Having said that, what the Tories are doing to the justice system now means the poor are less likely to get away with accusations and plea bargaining is filtering into the sytem. 

It's not readers of those papers that spring to mind, more your Guardian reading types these days when it comes to any type of "hate crime".

Liberal opinion is invariably on the side of the defendant and against the state and the judiciary. Except when the bloke in the dock is white and male and the person on the bench is black and female. Given those circumstances, it’s a completely different issue. Somehow the liberals assume the power is in the hands of the white, racist defendant, even when it clearly isn't.

 

A lot "progressives" think nobody should be sent to prison, because prison doesn’t work — except racists of course, in which case the term can never be too long.

 

[nnfox]

Really sad news. I have fond memories of his  goal vs Wimbledon, it was one of the best ever.

 

We really need to wait for all the facts before people start jumping to conclusions.  The report says that he died AFTER being Tasered, not BECAUSE he was tasered.  Tasers are pretty safe actually, people get tased everyday and death is extremely rare.  In fact, when people die as a result of being tasered, it is usually because they hit their head on the way down or fall from a height or something, it is seldom as a direct result of the taser.

 

 

 

 

[Burmesefox]

22 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Aren't blacklivesmatter a mob? Are those the kind of papers they read?

I don't know if they are a mob. I suppose that some maybe just as EDL are and Britain First are. I'm not aware of those using the slogan acting in a mob like way in this country. I haven't asked them if they read those papers but it wouldn't surprise me if they did. when i referred to "lynch mob" it was figuratively speaking.

 

[Burmesefox]

6 minutes ago, The Railway Man said:

It's not readers of those papers that spring to mind, more your Guardian reading types these days when it comes to any type of "hate crime".

Liberal opinion is invariably on the side of the defendant and against the state and the judiciary. Except when the bloke in the dock is white and male and the person on the bench is black and female. Given those circumstances, it’s a completely different issue. Somehow the liberals assume the power is in the hands of the white, racist defendant, even when it clearly isn't.

 

A lot "progressives" think nobody should be sent to prison, because prison doesn’t work — except racists of course, in which case the term can never be too long.

 

Clearly we disagree. "Liberal" opinion is not invariably on the side of the defendant, it is on the side of justice. Not sure where you are getting your facts from. i am a liberal and I believe in a far trial for all - police and public alike. I am not accusing the police or defending them, I am not accusing Atkinson or defending him. You intimated that this was Atkinson's own fault. I merely suggested a need for facts before accusation. This is why I said I hope you don't do jury service if your prepared to judge before knowing the facts.   

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

Clearly we disagree. "Liberal" opinion is not invariably on the side of the defendant, it is on the side of justice. Not sure where you are getting your facts from. i am a liberal and I believe in a far trial for all - police and public alike. I am not accusing the police or defending them, I am not accusing Atkinson or defending him. You intimated that this was Atkinson's own fault. I merely suggested a need for facts before accusation. This is why I said I hope you don't do jury service if your prepared to judge before knowing the facts.   

And yet you decided that people who take a different view are part of a Daily Mail reading lynch mob on no more facts than the people commenting have?

 

It's find to say lets hear the facts before we decide but to sneer and look down your nose at people with a different opinion doesn't make you on the side of justice.

[Burmesefox]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

And yet you decided that people who take a different view are part of a Daily Mail reading lynch mob on no more facts than the people commenting have?

 

It's find to say lets hear the facts before we decide but to sneer and look down your nose at people with a different opinion doesn't make you on the side of justice.

I never said that those who take a different view to me are Daily Mail etc readers - I merely highlighted the "lynch mob mentality" of them and it wasn't literal. Those papers incite upset and unrest with constant mistruths to further their own agenda, which is ultimately to retain wealth within the ruling classes and elite - classic divide and rule. I certainly do not look down on anyone because they have a different view to me. Half of my mates are Tories, i'm not - we don't fall out about it.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

I never said that those who take a different view to me are Daily Mail etc readers - I merely highlighted the "lynch mob mentality" of them and it wasn't literal. Those papers incite upset and unrest with constant mistruths to further their own agenda, which is ultimately to retain wealth within the ruling classes and elite - classic divide and rule. I certainly do not look down on anyone because they have a different view to me. Half of my mates are Tories, i'm not - we don't fall out about it.

Sounds like every left wing pressure group.

[Burmesefox]

2 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Sounds like every left wing pressure group.

The Daily Mail, the paper that supported the Nazis just before WW2, the paper that is registered off-shore and dodges taxes but talks about benefit cheats, the paper that loves the unelected tax dodging European aristocratic family that is head of state....need I go on? I am not a member of any pressure group - I cant even name one. Until we realise that press and tv media is skewered to the right in this country to feather their own nests the better off we will be, even the BBC has turned under Cameron's threats.  

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

The Daily Mail, the paper that supported the Nazis just before WW2, the paper that is registered off-shore and dodges taxes but talks about benefit cheats, the paper that loves the unelected tax dodging European aristocratic family that is head of state....need I go on? I am not a member of any pressure group - I cant even name one. Until we realise that press and tv media is skewered to the right in this country to feather their own nests the better off we will be, even the BBC has turned under Cameron's threats.  

Tax avoidance isn't illegal, I believe that the Guardian employs similar tactics to avoid corporation tax. As for the Nazi thing it was for about 3 months 80 years ago, isn't it time to move on?

[Burmesefox]

Tax avoidance isn't illegal - see what they did there? One rule for one and another for the rest of us - that is exactly my point that you highlighted. Just because something is deemed legal doesn't make it moral. Look at the land registry and see that 70% odd of inner London is registered overseas to avoid tax - not by the likes of you and me but by the elite. The inheritance tax that the Duke of Westminster should pay (if the same principals applied to him as they would the common man) would plug the hole in the NHS and have money over. Ironic really that the dodged tax by all of these is thousands of time more than benefits cheats. Anyway, nice talking to you, I'm off to do some work...to pay my fair share of tax.  PS. the Guardian does not employ a similar system to avoid tax.

 

[Webbo]

35 minutes ago, Burmesefox said:

Tax avoidance isn't illegal - see what they did there? One rule for one and another for the rest of us - that is exactly my point that you highlighted. Just because something is deemed legal doesn't make it moral. Look at the land registry and see that 70% odd of inner London is registered overseas to avoid tax - not by the likes of you and me but by the elite. The inheritance tax that the Duke of Westminster should pay (if the same principals applied to him as they would the common man) would plug the hole in the NHS and have money over. Ironic really that the dodged tax by all of these is thousands of time more than benefits cheats. Anyway, nice talking to you, I'm off to do some work...to pay my fair share of tax.  PS. the Guardian does not employ a similar system to avoid tax.

 

I've no doubt you'll dismiss as a right wing media smear but if you could tell me which parts of it are untrue.

http://order-order.com/2012/11/26/the-guardians-offshore-secrets-guardian-media-group-still-operates-caymans-company/

[boots60]

Not wishing to take part in the premature political debate I will just say

R.I.P Dalian Atkinson, a great footballer.

 

 

[Leicesterpool]

Awful news and just 48 aswell! They said they tasered him for his own safety! instead they've gone on and killed him. RIP Dalian

[Sharpe's Fox]

Very sad RIP but I won't blame the police on this one. Frankly I put my faith in our front line emergency service professionals over any member of the public in situations like this. Can't say the same for the top brass of the service, though, due to recent revelations over Hillsborough, Rotherham etc.

[Buce]

2 hours ago, boots60 said:

Not wishing to take part in the premature political debate I will just say

R.I.P Dalian Atkinson, a great footballer.

 

 

Behave.

[Thommo]

Will we ever know the facts/truth ....I smell another police cover up/lies like the Brazilian sparky on the london underground ...

[Guest Bilo]

6 hours ago, DB11 said:

#BlackLivesMatter Another story for the extremist group to latch onto and incite violence.

 

I mean it's not like the police would have used a taser on him for no reason. It's not like he wouldn't have been posing a danger to either himself or others. Oh no, the police just tasered him cos he was black

Would you like some salt and vinegar for that chip on your shoulder?

 

Let's wait for the facts to emerge before we rush to any judgement. It wouldn't be the first time that the police were forced to use a taser, but nor would it be the first time that the police cocked up and turned out to be heavy handed.

 

Deciding one way or the other at this early stage is totally pointless and counterproductive.

[Larry_LCFC]

I think all police should carry taser. Not good when people die from it, but a lot more lives are saved because of it.