Ron Atkinson - remember him?

[davieG]

 

Has got an autobiography out.

Ron Atkinson: My Sheffield Wednesday team of ‘91 were better than Premier League champions Leicester City + the anger of leaving Owls for a second time

http://www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/ron-atkinson-my-sheffield-wednesday-team-of-91-were-better-than-premier-league-champions-leicester-city-the-anger-of-leaving-owls-for-a-second-time-1-8172061

 

[Vlad the Fox]

Still bitter that our 3-0 stuffing of man u when they were 10 points clear at the top started the decline that lost him the job. 

[Tuna]

Oh yes, the massive racist Ron Atkinson. He lost the right to be respected when he started throwing N bombs around.

[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Tuna said:

Oh yes, the massive racist Ron Atkinson. He lost the right to be respected when he started throwing N bombs around.

I'm not sure if "massive racist" is quite the fair description of the fella. As far as I can remember, it was one stupid remark, that he made once.  

[m4DD0gg]

1 hour ago, winchesterton said:

I'm not sure if "massive racist" is quite the fair description of the fella. As far as I can remember, it was one stupid remark, that he made once.  

Exactly plus those comments he made are rife in football

[Richard]

8 minutes ago, m4DD0gg said:

Exactly plus those comments he made are rife in football

doesn't make it any more acceptable though

[GaelicFox]

What he said was vile and he should never have his thoughts aired in public again 

 

 

flush the toilet on the turd 

[Nick]

Still a silly old man then - sad, possibly a nice fella just a product of his time that couldn't move with change - which makes anything he's got to spout now, pretty much just empty rhetoric.

[foxy boxing]

the Dinosaur of football management

[Kitchandro]

Somebody should email that article to all of the players (the headline anyway).

This is the sort of thing people will be saying if they make such a poor attempt at defending their title and roll over against average sides like Man Utd.
 

 

 

 

[Jon the Hat]

Wow.  I mean that is a pretty honest thing to say.  If there was one thing you never expect a former manager to say, it is "I was so bad I got relegated with a team better than the current Premier League Champions".

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Richard said:

doesn't make it any more acceptable though

 

4 hours ago, GaelicFox said:

What he said was vile and he should never have his thoughts aired in public again 

 

 

flush the toilet on the turd 

I don't want to defend what he said. The N word is definitely the most unacceptable word in the entire language. But i think it's only fair to weigh the circumstances, the motive, and intended use of the word - as you would with anything a person says.

 

I think it's more offensive than the word vardy used, for example ....but the 'when, how, and why' of what Vardy said were probably more offensive.

 

I don't think we should automatically give people a free pass. But there's got to be some means of redemption available. I've met people who were proper racist. Full-blooded hatred, and would physically attack someone because of their skin colour. But at some point the penny dropped, or they got a kick up the backside and learnt to change their views. Obviously they have to live with the consequences of their previous mistakes - but it's not entirely fair to judge their current character on a past they've disowned.

[Alf Bentley]

6 hours ago, winchesterton said:

I'm not sure if "massive racist" is quite the fair description of the fella. As far as I can remember, it was one stupid remark, that he made once.  

 

He obviously had some outdated attitudes and language, and got caught making a stupid comment.

 

However, he made his name as a manager playing a team with several black players (Regis, Cunningham & Batson at WBA) at a time when there were very few black players at the top level - never mind 3 or 4 in the same team. Whatever his faults, that hardly suggests he was "a massive racist"!

[Countryfox]

Ron who ?

[GaelicFox]

My great great great grandfather was a plantation manager in West Indies there were lots of Irish men doing that job hence why lots of West Indians have Irish surnames , he looked after hundreds if not thousands of black slaves and he also let some of them take quite good admistration jobs on the plantation Inc teaching of white children and bookkeeping  but I have read his diarys and he was a filthy racist pig , despite obviously working and giving good tasks to black people , employing black people doesn't prove your not racist ! 

 

Let's have a listen back bellow to what he said ! Only a racist would hold these views ! and also remember he is referencing a very very good player ! 

 

He is a racist , don't be an apologist , face facts calling someone a "lazy thick nigger"  is racist and always will be ! it was racist then , it was racist in the 1800's and it is still racist now ! 

 

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

1 hour ago, GaelicFox said:

My great great great grandfather was a plantation manager in West Indies there were lots of Irish men doing that job hence why lots of West Indians have Irish surnames , he looked after hundreds if not thousands of black slaves and he also let some of them take quite good admistration jobs on the plantation Inc teaching of white children and bookkeeping  but I have read his diarys and he was a filthy racist pig , despite obviously working and giving good tasks to black people , employing black pepper doesn't prove your not racist ! 

 

Let's have a listen back bellow to what he said ! Only a racist would hold these views ! and also remember he is referencing a very very good player ! 

 

He is a racist , don't be an apologist , face facts calling someone a "lazy thick nigger"  is racist and always will be ! it was racist then , it was racist in the 1800's and it is still racist now ! 

 

 

What he said was racist, wrong, stupid - and his career suffered for it.

 

However, which is worse....

- A manager who is a trailblazer for selecting black players, but clearly has a few dodgy attitudes and makes a stupid, racist comment?

- A manager (like most of Atkinson's contemporaries) who follows the dominant trend of selecting no black players, but never uses the n-word, or at least never gets caught doing so?

 

In an ideal world, you wouldn't have to choose. Everyone would be perfectly non-racist and perfectly behaved in every other way. But this isn't a perfect world. People have all sorts of misguided attitudes learned from parents, friends or the society they were brought up in. It takes time for attitudes to change - and must be hard if, say, your racist attitudes aren't challenged until you're middle-aged.

 

Racist attitudes would have been widespread when Atkinson was young. I'm 20-25 years younger and remember it. I grew up in a very white part of England and remember viewing black people not with any hate but almost as a different species when I first moved to live in cities. I can specifically remember, when I was in my 20s in London, a few rowdy black lads getting on a bus that I was on, just being loud and messing about - and I instinctively thought they could be violent criminals who might attack me, in a way I wouldn't have done if they'd been white. Was that a racist attitude? Of course it was. Should I be condemned for it as a "massive racist"? I don't think so - it was just ignorance. I hadn't learned yet (maybe I still haven't completely).

 

Your ancestor might have been a "filthy racist pig" by current standards, but it sounds like he was better than many of his contemporaries. Are we going to condemn cavemen as pig ignorant because they wouldn't be able to read a book or use an I-phone?

 

By the way, "employing black pepper" would be an excellent culinary decision! 

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

7 hours ago, m4DD0gg said:

Exactly plus those comments he made are rife in football

Good ****ing grief.

[GaelicFox]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

What he said was racist, wrong, stupid - and his career suffered for it.

 

However, which is worse....

- A manager who is a trailblazer for selecting black players, but clearly has a few dodgy attitudes and makes a stupid, racist comment?

- A manager (like most of Atkinson's contemporaries) who follows the dominant trend of selecting no black players, but never uses the n-word, or at least never gets caught doing so?

 

In an ideal world, you wouldn't have to choose. Everyone would be perfectly non-racist and perfectly behaved in every other way. But this isn't a perfect world. People have all sorts of misguided attitudes learned from parents, friends or the society they were brought up in. It takes time for attitudes to change - and must be hard if, say, your racist attitudes aren't challenged until you're middle-aged.

 

Racist attitudes would have been widespread when Atkinson was young. I'm 20-25 years younger and remember it. I grew up in a very white part of England and remember viewing black people not with any hate but almost as a different species when I first moved to live in cities. I can specifically remember, when I was in my 20s in London, a few rowdy black lads getting on a bus that I was on, just being loud and messing about - and I instinctively thought they could be violent criminals who might attack me, in a way I wouldn't have done if they'd been white. Was that a racist attitude? Of course it was. Should I be condemned for it as a "massive racist"? I don't think so - it was just ignorance. I hadn't learned yet (maybe I still haven't completely).

 

Your ancestor might have been a "filthy racist pig" by current standards, but it sounds like he was better than many of his contemporaries. Are we going to condemn cavemen as pig ignorant because they wouldn't be able to read a book or use an I-phone?

 

By the way, "employing black pepper" would be an excellent culinary decision! 

Fair point 

 

but for me those views are deep rooted and were always prevalent

 

but i take your view 

 

my ancestor returned to Europe living in Bristol selling rum ,  fathered at least 6 illegitimate children in that city before buying a farm in ireland and at 56 marrying a 21yo farmers daughter my great great great grandmother , she has 4 children in 5 years by him before his neighbour shot him in a land dispute ...I think the fecker got what was coming   

 

 

[m4DD0gg]

24 minutes ago, Miquel The Work Geordie said:

Good ****ing grief.

Chill out i am not saying i condone its just merely the truth and if anyone thinks otherwise they are kidding themselves.

[fuchsntf]

2 hours ago, winchesterton said:

 

I don't want to defend what he said. The N word is definitely the most unacceptable word in the entire language. But i think it's only fair to weigh the circumstances, the motive, and intended use of the word - as you would with anything a person says.

 

I think it's more offensive than the word vardy used, for example ....but the 'when, how, and why' of what Vardy said were probably more offensive.

 

I don't think we should automatically give people a free pass. But there's got to be some means of redemption available. I've met people who were proper racist. Full-blooded hatred, and would physically attack someone because of their skin colour. But at some point the penny dropped, or they got a kick up the backside and learnt to change their views. Obviously they have to live with the consequences of their previous mistakes - but it's not entirely fair to judge their current character on a past they've disowned.

Offensive words, the bigger society,   the 'N' word, we children of the 70s, chose to slur, be racist, Chose their words accordingly,

to what we chose ourselves. Then I used 'paki ' Jap, chink  like most, but never has an intended  hated remark.More as an explanation

using it many times for the restaurant on was  going to, or explaining of the  Peoples History we had learnt/discovered.

Funny thing is I never used the 'N'  word, only because I seen the normal American films bye n b ye where it came across

as a degrading slur.

My best friends called me ( now for explanation ) nigger,   my name is  Nigel So it got shortened into

lazy sylable correction...never spelt, because it was only spoken...but with the obvious slant intended, so I with no

negative thought lived with it..I suppose Nige with hard 'g' the intention. 

What I am trying to explain, there were incidents of misuse of certain names/words that were delibrately thrown into Conversations,

meaning to express or venting  hatred and racism, dxactly the same words were also used innocently With no intentions..

EG:  for me PAKI is an abbreviation on a Persons origin nothing more nothing racist or ill will intended.same as Jap,

In europe in USA I am a Brit, even a tommy. My deceased father would be confused and downright insulted that His  best war friends,

Couldnt or shouldnt be called, Paddy, Taffy or Jock , and affectionately greeted and wanted to be known so.

Like me , like my uncles, like my dad, We would of all jumped into an argument or fight to protect the right of ANY FOREIGNER or

ANY PERSON of any skin colour. Confirmed a couple of times through action not just opinion.

Within my Family across  the board we have Pakistanis, Indians, African, Ukrain, Polish,German plus the obvious irish, scots, welsh,

Ourselves being original  Anglo-Saxon -Norman bastards.I am sure if we digged deeper the Bodica hordes of the Icena Could well be

in our genes.Even a twist of Attila and good old genghis sprinkle. All greek to some people trying to compare generations, todays generation

is as racist, and pungnent as any passed Generation before and after the 19 70s.

GREEK/Egyptian/Roman empires/civilization   knew Of differences but never fought on racist platforms of hatred.

 

Ps. Funny terms for names...

STU Bailey my best friend turned Foster my name to foggo, so I moved from Niger to Foggo.

Then there came along a norwich footballer called ken foggo.

So I went from Niger to Foggo to Ken.

THen came a Well known wrestler, thats why when I go back to Leicester, people who knew me

has a friend, an aquaintance stop me and greet me with KENDO.

Took ages to try and explain that to girlfriends then wife, even when by then older girls greeted me so.  Strange thing about name badges.

[GaelicFox]

24 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

Offensive words, the bigger society,   the 'N' word, we children of the 70s, chose to slur, be racist, Chose their words accordingly,

to what we chose ourselves. Then I used 'paki ' Jap, chink  like most, but never has an intended  hated remark.More as an explanation

using it many times for the restaurant on was  going to, or explaining of the  Peoples History we had learnt/discovered.

Funny thing is I never used the 'N'  word, only because I seen the normal American films bye n b ye where it came across

as a degrading slur.

My best friends called me ( now for explanation ) nigger,   my name is  Nigel So it got shortened into

lazy sylable correction...never spelt, because it was only spoken...but with the obvious slant intended, so I with no

negative thought lived with it..I suppose Nige with hard 'g' the intention. 

What I am trying to explain, there were incidents of misuse of certain names/words that were delibrately thrown into Conversations,

meaning to express or venting  hatred and racism, dxactly the same words were also used innocently With no intentions..

EG:  for me PAKI is an abbreviation on a Persons origin nothing more nothing racist or ill will intended.same as Jap,

In europe in USA I am a Brit, even a tommy. My deceased father would be confused and downright insulted that His  best war friends,

Couldnt or shouldnt be called, Paddy, Taffy or Jock , and affectionately greeted and wanted to be known so.

Like me , like my uncles, like my dad, We would of all jumped into an argument or fight to protect the right of ANY FOREIGNER or

ANY PERSON of any skin colour. Confirmed a couple of times through action not just opinion.

Within my Family across  the board we have Pakistanis, Indians, African, Ukrain, Polish,German plus the obvious irish, scots, welsh,

Ourselves being original  Anglo-Saxon -Norman bastards.I am sure if we digged deeper the Bodica hordes of the Icena Could well be

in our genes.Even a twist of Attila and good old genghis sprinkle. All greek to some people trying to compare generations, todays generation

is as racist, and pungnent as any passed Generation before and after the 19 70s.

GREEK/Egyptian/Roman empires/civilization   knew Of differences but never fought on racist platforms of hatred.

 

Ps. Funny terms for names...

STU Bailey my best friend turned Foster my name to foggo, so I moved from Niger to Foggo.

Then there came along a norwich footballer called ken foggo.

So I went from Niger to Foggo to Ken.

THen came a Well known wrestler, thats why when I go back to Leicester, people who knew me

has a friend, an aquaintance stop me and greet me with KENDO.

Took ages to try and explain that to girlfriends then wife, even when by then older girls greeted me so.  Strange thing about name badges.

My brother is packie (short for patrick , packie bonner for example) 

 

my mother was visiting leicester with him years ago 

 

My brother wandered off on Leicester market looking at the clothes stalls while she was bartering over a pound of carrots ,when she turned and noticed he has wandered off she ran through the market in her thick Irish accent "packie packie where are you Packie" 

 

if she did it today she would be a UKIP councillor in no time

[MPH]

9 hours ago, winchesterton said:

I'm not sure if "massive racist" is quite the fair description of the fella. As far as I can remember, it was one stupid remark, that he made once.  

Im  more inclined that what you are willing to say in a tv studio with cameras all around you is more likely to be just a tiny opening of the doorway as to what you really want to say...

[Guest]

1 hour ago, GaelicFox said:

My great great great grandfather was a plantation manager in West Indies there were lots of Irish men doing that job hence why lots of West Indians have Irish surnames , he looked after hundreds if not thousands of black slaves and he also let some of them take quite good admistration jobs on the plantation Inc teaching of white children and bookkeeping  but I have read his diarys and he was a filthy racist pig , despite obviously working and giving good tasks to black people , employing black people doesn't prove your not racist ! 

 

Let's have a listen back bellow to what he said ! Only a racist would hold these views ! and also remember he is referencing a very very good player ! 

 

He is a racist , don't be an apologist , face facts calling someone a "lazy thick nigger"  is racist and always will be ! it was racist then , it was racist in the 1800's and it is still racist now ! 

 

 

Assuming the worse, that what he said at the time reflected willful, deeply held prejudices, even in that case all it tells is what he was back then. You can't suggest that person therefore is and always will be. that would imply that it was some sort of genetic flaw and not a conscious decision.

 

The fact of the matter is we all have said something stupid, wrong or offensive in our lives. Probably not because we're hateful or racist people, but because we're morons - or quite, simply, coz we're humans.

[GaelicFox]

18 minutes ago, winchesterton said:

Assuming the worse, that what he said at the time reflected willful, deeply held prejudices, even in that case all it tells is what he was back then. You can't suggest that person therefore is and always will be. that would imply that it was some sort of genetic flaw and not a conscious decision.

 

The fact of the matter is we all have said something stupid, wrong or offensive in our lives. Probably not because we're hateful or racist people, but because we're morons - or quite, simply, coz we're humans.

I'm suggesting the adult formulated and held quite racist views and he consciously managed to keep them private  or at least amongst likewise people , he didn't let his guard down he just didn't realise he was on air or being listened to. 

 

"lazy thick nigger" isn't a slip of the tongue it had real belief and strength when it was delivered , I'm sorry that's not a stupid slip of the human fatality of thought and speach being mixed up , it's a racist derogatory core belief expressed when he thought  like minded or no one else was listening. 

 

Unforgivable  

[Guest]

29 minutes ago, MPH said:

Im  more inclined that what you are willing to say in a tv studio with cameras all around you is more likely to be just a tiny opening of the doorway as to what you really want to say...

maybe. maybe not. Who knows. There's only evidence of the one occasion before or since that time (that i'm aware of). A singular use of the word or a habitual use of the word are both wrong and offensive, and it may seem strange to 'defend' such an individual in either case. But on the other hand stealing a car stereo and armed robbery are both wrong and offensive things, but I wouldn't want someone guilty of the former accused of the latter simply on assumptions.