Watford 1-2 Post Match Thread

[st albans fox]

On Tuesday nights .....

Porto -  Ipswich

brugge - Leeds

copenhagen - Wolverhampton

 

it scans - phew, relegation not so scary now ....

 

 

[Donut]

5 hours ago, foxhateram said:

No the dear oh dear statement must be put on you. Pearson got us to where we were, kept us in the prem and the momentum of his great escape is what lead to last seasons crazy run of form (He was also at the players meeting, he called it ). I'm not saying Claudio didn't play his part, because his control of the media and wooing of the players did boost morale even higher than before and his switching of players when required, worked well. But if there is anyone who is looking one dimensional right now, it is the king tinkering, who has just tinkered too much again and upset the apple cart. Don't forget Claudio also admitted that he didn't rate Kante, as he thought he would be too weak and small for the Prem. I bet he wishes he had him now though. 

 

Pearson's time at Derby should not be used as a measure of success. He was given next to no time and the club is a shambles. The owner spied on his personal life with a drone for goodness sake.

 

The players are literally just shattered mentally after such a long season last year of playing well above themselves and are on top of that unfit after an abismal pre season. All these little things are down to the manager to get right and fix, and this time Claudio has got it all wrong. I'm really starting to doubt he has it in him to challenge these players and get them back to the required mentallity to compete where we want to be. Saying that they showed spirit when all they did was huff and puff is worrying for me. Pearson wouldn't have them conceeding this many goals, we've conceeded more this season than in our great escape season, and I think I'm right in saying we also have less points than at this point in that season too. I'm the reverand optimist, but even I'm worried.

This post is garbage.

 

First of all, lets look at the club Pearson inherited at Derby. You brand the club "garbage", and yet this is a club that is now in a winning run, the top half of the championship, and the season before had reached the playoffs and were one bad result away from wembley.

 

You then totally contradict yourself by saying in other posts that the state Pearson left Leicester in was a healthy one, when we spent the majority of the season slap bang at the bottom of the league and had players that were nowhere near the level they were at in the title winning season, or not even playing in the case of Drinkwater.

 

So as i mentionned in one of my other posts, its the manager who is in charge at the time that gets the results. you cant just use the players that were left behind to fit whatever argument you want, or by definition Brendan Rogers is a genius, Alex Ferguson was a terrible squad builder.

 

Secondly, i dont think ive heard one person EVER, and i certainly wouldnt expect to hear it from you, ever discuss the merits of what Claudio Ranieri's staff have done at Leicester. Youve never heard of Paolo Benetti and youve never heard of Andrea Azalin. because no big song and dance has been made of their involvement in the media, you just assume its zero and that it was all Walsh and Shakespeare. Well youve made another fatal error in that Shakespeare is still at the club. So are you saying that Shakespeare is having no involvement now that we are on a bad run, and when we were on a good run he was a significant factor behind it? Youre trying to argue both ways and youre failing.

 

Next, you discussed "wooing the players and controlling the media" as the most significant trait of Ranieri's time winning the league. Im not sure its worth justifying this with an answer to be honest, but i suppose in a roundabout way youre praising Ranieri for having excellent man management skills and using the media to instill confidence and freedom in the players to achieve great things.

 

But in saying Ranieri didnt tinker, you have turned a blind eye to the fact he turned us into a 4-4-2 fast paced team, brough players like Simpson and Drinkwater into the fold and changed the style to an effective, direct unit. He tinkered positively, not a string of abject formations that had us not scoring a home goal for about 4 months. Pearson might not have left us open at the back, but i doubt hed have entertained us like last season, set a team up to win 3-1 away at Man City and smash a few 3-0 away wins to boot.

 

What i will say is the buying could, and most definitely should have been better in the summer, with more options to change things around. He has been hamstrung by not having Mendy available, the SLimani and Vardy partnership hasnt worked as well as he would have liked no doubt.

 

This post is born of the frustration that we are continually looking back through blue tinted specs at a time when we were a worse team than now and wishing we could go back, downplaying things that Ranieri has clearly done magnificently here while we are more than happy to over praise the Pearson effect. Ranieri has managed some of the biggest clubs in the world and managed them well. He knows what he is doing. This is a bad run of form, im not going to pretend we arent in a battle right now, but ive every confidence we will get this right.

 

And for those of you like the poster i quoted, if you cant back a manager that won the PREMIER LEAGUE title with Leicester City of all teams, you need to have a word with yourself.

[erlee]

1 hour ago, DelBoy73 said:

Goals wins you points, yet we are the squad with the lowest shooting attempts in the league.

Actually we look like a gun without bullets.

Sure we got some pretty decent attack-minded players upfront, but they hardly get any service : check-mate.

When you have a PFA wasted on defense duties for 95% of games, something is awfully wrong.

It is all on Claudio's shoulders.

He has enough personnel at hand to set-up a balanced system that would offer security in the midfield yet would allow us enough potential

to feed decent service to the men up-front.

The sooner we throw off the hoof and chase soccer, the better.

that's nothing new. last year we had most goals inside the box.. we had the least no. of goals outside the box.

 

last year - whenever we hoof it high up - some of it get converted into a Vardy (1:0) goal..  this year: not so much

 

we ran out of luck.. we ran out of form. Ranieri is still sticking to the hoof-n-chase style from last season...maybe it was tried & proven (for one season)

[Struwwelpeter60]

29 minutes ago, DelBoy73 said:

It is all on Claudio's shoulders.

He has enough personnel at hand to set-up a balanced system that would offer security in the midfield yet would allow us enough potential

to feed decent service to the men up-front.

Meaning what exactly?

That we do not need new players, because we have everybody, we need to play great football?

With the noticeable exception of Kapuska (CR seems to have a beef with the guy) Ranieri has used

all his options.  But without Kante, Mendy and James, the options in midfield are very limited.

Losing Kante was so harmful, because he was the only player in the squad, who was able

to play those accurate 10-15 yards passes into the channels and lanes, that were the

basis of our counter-attacking game. Without him our "Umschaltspiel" isn't working

anymore.

 

Regarding our transfer policy in this year:

Remembering, what CR has said about Amartey, Gray, Musa, and the way he is treating Kapuska, I am

convinced, that Mendy (with whom he worked at Monaco) was the only player  Ranieri really

wanted to sign.  All the others, especially Gray,Musa and Kapuska, are typical Walsh selections. Ranieri

doesn't like physically weak players. He never did.

[Dan]

6 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Another gem here Dan....

You've read my mind.

I am a bit pissed of though that you've got one of those gold stars by the side of your post. I don't think I've ever got a gold star on here. 

 

You've had plenty I'm sure  think it takes a +5 to get one.

[Foxhateram]

30 minutes ago, Donut said:

This post is garbage.

 

First of all, lets look at the club Pearson inherited at Derby. You brand the club "garbage", and yet this is a club that is now in a winning run, the top half of the championship, and the season before had reached the playoffs and were one bad result away from wembley.

 

You then totally contradict yourself by saying in other posts that the state Pearson left Leicester in was a healthy one, when we spent the majority of the season slap bang at the bottom of the league and had players that were nowhere near the level they were at in the title winning season, or not even playing in the case of Drinkwater.

 

So as i mentionned in one of my other posts, its the manager who is in charge at the time that gets the results. you cant just use the players that were left behind to fit whatever argument you want, or by definition Brendan Rogers is a genius, Alex Ferguson was a terrible squad builder.

 

Secondly, i dont think ive heard one person EVER, and i certainly wouldnt expect to hear it from you, ever discuss the merits of what Claudio Ranieri's staff have done at Leicester. Youve never heard of Paolo Benetti and youve never heard of Andrea Azalin. because no big song and dance has been made of their involvement in the media, you just assume its zero and that it was all Walsh and Shakespeare. Well youve made another fatal error in that Shakespeare is still at the club. So are you saying that Shakespeare is having no involvement now that we are on a bad run, and when we were on a good run he was a significant factor behind it? Youre trying to argue both ways and youre failing.

 

Next, you discussed "wooing the players and controlling the media" as the most significant trait of Ranieri's time winning the league. Im not sure its worth justifying this with an answer to be honest, but i suppose in a roundabout way youre praising Ranieri for having excellent man management skills and using the media to instill confidence and freedom in the players to achieve great things.

 

But in saying Ranieri didnt tinker, you have turned a blind eye to the fact he turned us into a 4-4-2 fast paced team, brough players like Simpson and Drinkwater into the fold and changed the style to an effective, direct unit. He tinkered positively, not a string of abject formations that had us not scoring a home goal for about 4 months. Pearson might not have left us open at the back, but i doubt hed have entertained us like last season, set a team up to win 3-1 away at Man City and smash a few 3-0 away wins to boot.

 

What i will say is the buying could, and most definitely should have been better in the summer, with more options to change things around. He has been hamstrung by not having Mendy available, the SLimani and Vardy partnership hasnt worked as well as he would have liked no doubt.

 

This post is born of the frustration that we are continually looking back through blue tinted specs at a time when we were a worse team than now and wishing we could go back, downplaying things that Ranieri has clearly done magnificently here while we are more than happy to over praise the Pearson effect. Ranieri has managed some of the biggest clubs in the world and managed them well. He knows what he is doing. This is a bad run of form, im not going to pretend we arent in a battle right now, but ive every confidence we will get this right.

 

And for those of you like the poster i quoted, if you cant back a manager that won the PREMIER LEAGUE title with Leicester City of all teams, you need to have a word with yourself.

You post this as if I am disregarding Ranieri. I certainly am not. I am just saying that a huge influence of last year was the form and confidence picked up in our great escape. Ranieri played a big part in the things I have already suggested. I do however wonder (basing on his previous posts) if he has the player management skills to turn this around. His back room staff don't exactly have glowing CVs either. 

 

I know shakespeare is still here, and of course he has played a part on it all. But I think you are underestimating Walsh's coaching ability.

 

You can't judge a person on their form at a different club and The wally with the brolleys return at Derby is similar to us under Pearson, the players were bought by him, so are ready to kick start for him, it won't get them long term success though. Because they need to build which is what Pearson was trying to do. Likewise walsh has only just arrived at Everton.

 

As for that meeting, find me the quote that states Pearson wasn't there. 

[st albans fox]

12 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

I'm just so fed up of reading excuses.

 

I have got to seriously question the ambition of some people on here. There was a post a few weeks ago from someone on this place that was absolutely spot on - what we did was incredible last year, and in doing that, we fashioned ourselves a unique opportunity to sustain ourselves as a regular European contender. We picked up the European riches with a budget of a side expected to come in the bottom half. We picked up a reputation as being a hard-working, odds-defying side who players would like to play for. We won the bastard league.

 

So why on earth do people defend this complete and utter mis-management?

 

I'm not saying just Ranieri here, it's a collective effort. Our summer looks more and more shambolic with each passing week.

 

We have failed to even attempt to replace quite possibly the best player we've ever had. The most crucial player in our best ever season, gone for the same fee as Moussa Sissoko, not replaced by anybody. Treat Mendy as Inler's replacement because that's what he is.

 

We have overloaded the squad with forwards and wingers, yet cannot even experiment with a different formation that patches up the midfield because we don't actually have the players on board - not even a case of them being good enough, we don't actually have enough players to commit to playing 4-3-3. That's an absolute embarrassment.

 

You lot can say "this is the reality of being a Leicester fan", and yes, it has been, but it didn't have to be. We took the ultimate stride to changing upping our level, and if anything I think we actually look a poorer team than we did in 2014/15. Forget last year, you're not replicating a side with an extraordinary player like Kante in it, but to not even be as good as that team? Just how?

 

Watching MOTD worried me tonight. Even shit like Sunderland & Swansea look more dangerous going forward we do.

 

We can't defend, we can't attack, we can't keep the ball.

 

This is a team that won the league last year.

 

It's beyond me. It really is.

One wonders when steve Walsh knew he wanted to leave to take th Everton job and if that affected his appetite/commitment to get new targets in. 

 

I do think that the club actually believed that NG would stay and planned as such. although mid June looks like it leaves lots of time, I suspect these big transfers take some organising if players need to be convinced and there isn't a buy out clause that we were prepared to meet 

[Dan]

5 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

One wonders when steve Walsh knew he wanted to leave to take th Everton job and if that affected his appetite/commitment to get new targets in. 

 

I do think that the club actually believed that NG would stay and planned as such. although mid June looks like it leaves lots of time, I suspect these big transfers take some organising if players need to be convinced and there isn't a buy out clause that we were prepared to meet 

They bought Mendy before Kante left as well and while it could be that they knew Kante was going, I just don't see it. Mendy is far more like Inler style wise than Kante.

 

I wonder if there's something in Ranieri still not being as big a Kante fan as all of us were. He didn't want Kante in the first place and maybe even despite last season he still doesn't want a player of that style.

 

Said it in another thread but I find it massively concerning that we were willing to part with thirty million for a midfielder yet ended up with nobody.

[st albans fox]

4 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

 

Said it in another thread but I find it massively concerning that we were willing to part with thirty million for a midfielder yet ended up with nobody.

 

we have no idea what they tried to do after NG left. clearly they had no choice but to let him go but you would think they would have tried to get a similar replacement. seems Gueye was the most similar style player easy to get out there but if Walsh knew he was going to Everton and that he wanted him for there then perhaps he put Claudio off taking him ?

[Dan]

3 minutes ago, st albans fox said:

 

we have no idea what they tried to do after NG left. clearly they had no choice but to let him go but you would think they would have tried to get a similar replacement. seems Gueye was the most similar style player easy to get out there but if Walsh knew he was going to Everton and that he wanted him for there then perhaps he put Claudio off taking him ?

But we didn't sign a single midfielder after Kante left. They have quite literally not tried to replace the bloke. If Amartey was their replacement all along then they've gotten it wrong.

[Struwwelpeter60]

5 minutes ago, Dan LCFC said:

But we didn't sign a single midfielder after Kante left. They have quite literally not tried to replace the bloke. If Amartey was their replacement all along then they've gotten it wrong.

Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense.

Amartey was signed in January, long before anybody could have known, that

Kante would leave in the summer.

And how do you you know, that they haven't tried to replace Kante?

I think, Mendy (CR's choice) was signed as his replacement.

His severe injury in week 2 was just bad luck and the last minute attempt to buy Silva

was a spur-of-the-moment reaction to Mendy's injury.

 

 

[st albans fox]

I really don't believe that we would spend close to 30 million because mendy got an ankle injury.  I think we were looking for a midfielder after NG left but couldn't land one. given our position at the time, its astonishing we didn't get one

[RonnieTodger]

In the same way that it was arrogant to write us off last season, it's arrogant to say we can't go down this year.

 

We really are atrocious in every department right now. The scoreline flattered us, I thought. Dan pretty much covered all bases with his post, but the one thing we do have going forward is that there are a lot of crap teams in this league. All we have to do is finish above Sunderland, Swansea and Hull and thats it - we're fine. Yet there's an ever-growing worry that we can't even do that, having spent £60m in the summer.

 

The recruitment really was a disaster. Nobody could've foreseen Mendy being on the sidelines, but people must have known Kante was going. Everybody knew opposing teams were going to step it up and we've sat still, doubling wages and bringing in what are essentially back up players. Huth & Morgan have been awful this year. They're not an exception, but they're somehow undroppable, because of the awful choices we have behind them. As much as we love him, we can't possibly line up with Wasilewski. He showed how far out of his depth he is against Chelsea. Hernandez was a ridiculous signing.

 

We'll beat Brugge 1-0 and people will forget about it because of our "amazing" European form.

[Ric Flair]

20 hours ago, Donut said:

This post is garbage.

 

First of all, lets look at the club Pearson inherited at Derby. You brand the club "garbage", and yet this is a club that is now in a winning run, the top half of the championship, and the season before had reached the playoffs and were one bad result away from wembley.

 

You then totally contradict yourself by saying in other posts that the state Pearson left Leicester in was a healthy one, when we spent the majority of the season slap bang at the bottom of the league and had players that were nowhere near the level they were at in the title winning season, or not even playing in the case of Drinkwater.

 

So as i mentionned in one of my other posts, its the manager who is in charge at the time that gets the results. you cant just use the players that were left behind to fit whatever argument you want, or by definition Brendan Rogers is a genius, Alex Ferguson was a terrible squad builder.

 

Secondly, i dont think ive heard one person EVER, and i certainly wouldnt expect to hear it from you, ever discuss the merits of what Claudio Ranieri's staff have done at Leicester. Youve never heard of Paolo Benetti and youve never heard of Andrea Azalin. because no big song and dance has been made of their involvement in the media, you just assume its zero and that it was all Walsh and Shakespeare. Well youve made another fatal error in that Shakespeare is still at the club. So are you saying that Shakespeare is having no involvement now that we are on a bad run, and when we were on a good run he was a significant factor behind it? Youre trying to argue both ways and youre failing.

 

Next, you discussed "wooing the players and controlling the media" as the most significant trait of Ranieri's time winning the league. Im not sure its worth justifying this with an answer to be honest, but i suppose in a roundabout way youre praising Ranieri for having excellent man management skills and using the media to instill confidence and freedom in the players to achieve great things.

 

But in saying Ranieri didnt tinker, you have turned a blind eye to the fact he turned us into a 4-4-2 fast paced team, brough players like Simpson and Drinkwater into the fold and changed the style to an effective, direct unit. He tinkered positively, not a string of abject formations that had us not scoring a home goal for about 4 months. Pearson might not have left us open at the back, but i doubt hed have entertained us like last season, set a team up to win 3-1 away at Man City and smash a few 3-0 away wins to boot.

 

What i will say is the buying could, and most definitely should have been better in the summer, with more options to change things around. He has been hamstrung by not having Mendy available, the SLimani and Vardy partnership hasnt worked as well as he would have liked no doubt.

 

This post is born of the frustration that we are continually looking back through blue tinted specs at a time when we were a worse team than now and wishing we could go back, downplaying things that Ranieri has clearly done magnificently here while we are more than happy to over praise the Pearson effect. Ranieri has managed some of the biggest clubs in the world and managed them well. He knows what he is doing. This is a bad run of form, im not going to pretend we arent in a battle right now, but ive every confidence we will get this right.

 

And for those of you like the poster i quoted, if you cant back a manager that won the PREMIER LEAGUE title with Leicester City of all teams, you need to have a word with yourself.

Superb

[Wymsey]

The fear of relegation has been mentioned really due to the type of opposition played in the last two losses, against clubs that will be content avoiding the drop. If it was Chelsea or Liverpool, there would probably have been less concern on this forum in the past few weeks.

 

Player's confidence may well be low due to this but they know in their minds this fiasco is temporary and people know they can do a lot better and they well once one or two things are sorted out.

[Dan]

21 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

The fear of relegation has been mentioned really due to the type of opposition played in the last two losses, against clubs that will be content avoiding the drop. If it was Chelsea or Liverpool, there would probably have been less concern on this forum in the past few weeks.

 

Player's confidence may well be low due to this but they know in their minds this fiasco is temporary and people know they can do a lot better and they well once one or two things are sorted out.

There was concern after both of those two hammered us, plenty of excuses for it but we've seen even this weekend that while they're obviously good, they can at least be made to work for their results, which we didn't do against them.

 

I saw Middlesbrough & Sunderland as a couple of wins a few weeks ago. Right now I see a 0-0 draw at home and a 2-1 loss away. I think we'll be in the bottom three by January, but will climb out of it when we bring in some more players.

[foxy boxing]

we are a shambles in the league at the moment and now the threat of relegation is real. the players need to take a long hard look at themselves and pull their socks up because this season in the league is rapidly going down the pan. tjis is just not good enough and so far from where we want to be at the moment. exactly what has changed from last season to this. we need to find out and fix it pronto.these were meant to be the run of easy games which would push us up the table and it is just so ****** frustrating how we are playing at the moment.we need to get back to working hard and getting the ball forward and defending as a team. we cannot afford to let this season slide any further and Claudio is in danger of undoing all the good work from last season. it needs sorting and sorting NOW

[Struwwelpeter60]

5 hours ago, Dan LCFC said:

There was concern after both of those two hammered us, plenty of excuses for it but we've seen even this weekend that while they're obviously good, they can at least be made to work for their results, which we didn't do against them.

 

I saw Middlesbrough & Sunderland as a couple of wins a few weeks ago. Right now I see a 0-0 draw at home and a 2-1 loss away. I think we'll be in the bottom three by January, but will climb out of it when we bring in some more players.

If we are in the bottom three by January, we won't get the players we need to improve the squad.

In real life people are abandoning a sinking ship, not boarding it.

[Dan]

4 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

If we are in the bottom three by January, we won't get the players we need to improve the squad.

In real life people are abandoning a sinking ship, not boarding it.

That's why our range of players we can attract has gone down. We're just going to have to do what we did to get there in the first place. We've hardly been signing players from the big boys.

[Struwwelpeter60]

1 minute ago, Dan LCFC said:

That's why our range of players we can attract has gone down. We're just going to have to do what we did to get there in the first place. We've hardly been signing players from the big boys.

The problem will be, that we need players, who can deliver immediately. 

Vardy, Mahrez, even Kante, they all needed time to adapt to the pace and

intensity of the PL. I doubt, that we will have that time again.

And don't forget the Africa Cup. We will be without Slimani, Mahrez and  Amartey

from mid-January to mid-February.

We need the finished product in January, not more apprentices.

We have already enough of them.

[MC Prussian]

30 minutes ago, Struwwelpeter60 said:

The problem will be, that we need players, who can deliver immediately. 

Vardy, Mahrez, even Kante, they all needed time to adapt to the pace and

intensity of the PL. I doubt, that we will have that time again.

And don't forget the Africa Cup. We will be without Slimani, Mahrez and  Amartey

from mid-January to mid-February.

We need the finished product in January, not more apprentices.

We have already enough of them.

How about looking at what we've got first, then find ways of motivating them so they perform to a certain level?

 

The problem that I see right now that too many of our players seem easily satisfied and/or find it hard continuing where they left off last summer.

Whether it's down to expectations or sloth kicking in, I can't tell.

 

Ambition, focus, determination, precision, speed, joy, team effort, ... They need a (new) system and food for thought, reflecting on what made the team so great before. I mean, it's evident they are capable of playing a lot better.

I'm not expecting them to perform another miracle, just upping the workrate and precision a tad bit. That'd already be a great start.

 

At the moment, it's all coming across as a bit stale and they've collectively gone off the boil.

[Number 6]

Did it really take Kante time to adapt? Thought he looked a cut above straight away.

[AmarteyAndChill]

7 hours ago, Number 6 said:

Did it really take Kante time to adapt? Thought he looked a cut above straight away.

He didn't start the season CM, he played LM a lot. Does anyone know the first game he played CM for us?

[goose2010]

He started for the first time CM against Arsenal when we lost 5-2 september 26th