Youth development

[AjcW]

1 minute ago, Ted Maul said:

True enough, but it was only a couple of years ago that we were hearing that we had one of our most talented crops ever coming through- Chilwell, Choudhury, Ndukwu, Barnes... Time will tell how they all do in the game.

 

Don't get me wrong, I think the model we have is wrong and out of tune with the modern game. The limited style of football played throughout the academy could have held some of them back, who knows.

 

I think we need someone new to head up the academy who understands the modern game, is a talented coach, will get the best out of the players and commands respect- someone along the lines of Vieira at Man City.

Completely agree. It just makes me wonder who has the most control at the club, if you look at the modern structure at other Premier League clubs, you'd say Macia would have a big say in who runs the youth set up but he doesn't appear to have had any influence yet. We also don't appear to have a "Head of Youth" like most teams do. I know it's technically Rudkins job but elsewhere it's a job on its own. 

[AjcW]

4 minutes ago, LCFC FOX said:

Choudhoury, Barnes, Nduwku are the three names I always hear as the most potential at the moment. What's the betting they struggle to make the championship?

They'd probably have at least been given a go at Southampton by now though.... 

 

If we don't sign another player before Saturday and ship out Jeff, the chances are we will need bodies on the bench so it will be interesting to see who they might be. 

[Foxes1]

Perhaps we should look at Broxbourne Borough and see how they do it after all they must be something right having just qualified for the last 16 of the F A Youth cup

[AjcW]

1 hour ago, Foxes1 said:

Perhaps we should look at Broxbourne Borough and see how they do it after all they must be something right having just qualified for the last 16 of the F A Youth cup

Something to do with the coach of the U12 side a few years back suggesting that he should move up with the side.... so he has done ever since, every year they have graduated so has he, to the point where he and they are an U18 side now.

 

It's a great concept at that level, not entirely feasible at our level.

 

We could definitely take bits of the concept though, if there's a year where the U15's 16's have an amazing crop and 8 or 9 of them go into the U18's then there is an argument for sending their coach with them. But that would involve old Peakey Blinder sodding off. 

[EGBFitness]

3 hours ago, AjcW said:

Good players will come along locally no matter what an academy does. All we've done is sign the two of them, some players are just talented.

 

- Moore: Championship

- Schlupp: being sold

- Mattock: possibly dead? (occasionally plays at Rotherham) 

- Stearman: On the championship loan wheel of misfortune 

- Gradel: crocked

- King: oh good you found one good one

 

As the poster above said we used to win week in week out a couple of years ago, but the club has failed to adapt to the U23 system, whilst other Premier League sides occasionally use the games to get first teamer's back to fitness, we use at least 3 slots every game just to give players we can't shift game time, meaning that three U18 players aren't getting the chance to be tested at a higher level. 

 

It worries me that we don't have a higher turnover of coaches at that level, the fact that U18, U23 management and youth development has been the same for longer than I can remember is a terrible thing, just look at how much the game has changed in that time! I think the fact none of the management we've brought in in the last 6 or 7 years have brought their own youth staff in shows that there's something going on internally and they hold a lot of power when it comes to holding onto their jobs!

King was bought in from Chelsea at about 15 years old wasn't he? I know he would of still spent time within the academy but the majority of his development was done at Chelsea

[EGBFitness]

I think the whole problem will always lay with the clubs ambition to bringing youth through - I never feel as if it's completely a geographical reason. 

 

Southampton have a lot come through because it is something the club is big about, Man Utd once was but since the takeover of Man City it's now them who lead as they have taken a lot of Man Utd's youth development team away and provide a lot of support and education to youth team players which united can't match. 

 

West Ham was always reknown for their youth development but that seems to be becoming less successful as the club looks more towards buying first team players than developing - if memory is right they've only really had Reece-Oxford who is still slightly unknown come from their within the last 5 years or so? 

 

I feel that ever since the administration we haven't ever really focused on our own youth academy and although we get the odd individual come through they never quite seem to be up to standard. I know from grass roots level the club give very little to scouts and give little time towards anyone scouted. 

[Dan]

6 hours ago, themightyfin said:

Throw them in gradually? 

Haha as soon as I clicked post I thought someone would pick up on that. Same way as Southampton do it, basically. Play them every now and then if we do actually rate them. Did us no harm with Chilwell.

[Dan]

3 hours ago, AjcW said:

Completely agree. It just makes me wonder who has the most control at the club, if you look at the modern structure at other Premier League clubs, you'd say Macia would have a big say in who runs the youth set up but he doesn't appear to have had any influence yet. We also don't appear to have a "Head of Youth" like most teams do. I know it's technically Rudkins job but elsewhere it's a job on its own. 

That's a point in itself. Makes you question how seriously we are taking it when the same bloke who has been there years is DoF and head of youth.

[Stadt]

It's not even necessarily about spending a load of money on facilities or recruiting worldwide, Feyenoord win academy of the year every year in the Netherlands even though Ajax have got more coaches, better facilities and more money but it's because the culture and set up is bang on than they produce decent players. Look at Genk as another example, Carrasco, Origi and De Bruyne all started there and have become much better players than anybody we've produced in the last 15 years and we're a much bigger club in terms of wealth and fanbase. The culture needs to change from the board including managerial appointments, to the recruitment and the actual coaching otherwise we'll never consistently produce even half decent player - of course we'll get the odd one but we're certainly capable of having a stronger academy because at the minute it's emblematic of English football.

[Manwell Pablo]

You can't really discount Schlupp because he's being sold  yeah, for over 10 million quid, think it's safe to say that's a tick in the development teams box. Likewise you can't really say Gradel is not a good player because he suffered an unfortunate injury that's even more daft  

 

We do "ok" as an academy I say, we do produce a lot of professional level graduates and probably more than deserve to have gone on to play in the Premier League, it is not quite as bad as everyone makes out but It could certainly be better, but if it weren't for the fact that the current crop are struggling big time you'd probably not have so many getting their panties in a bunch about it. 

 

It's a little unfair to use the Checkatrade game as an example I'm presuming we've done this as it's January and the players who have been helping the U21's are probably possibly being moved on and need to be kept fit, but we've sent them out there with one over age player and he was a bag of shit then got injured, against a professional football team, their kids that aren't even guaranteed a professional career yet. 

[Fox92]

3 hours ago, AjcW said:

They'd probably have at least been given a go at Southampton by now though.... 

 

If we don't sign another player before Saturday and ship out Jeff, the chances are we will need bodies on the bench so it will be interesting to see who they might be. 

They'd have a chance at Spurs too. Pochettino ain't afraid of throwing young players in.

 

I never got the Dodoo transfer. Scored a hat trick at Bury, scored against West Ham and then we let him go?

[AjcW]

3 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

They'd have a chance at Spurs too. Pochettino ain't afraid of throwing young players in.

 

I never got the Dodoo transfer. Scored a hat trick at Bury, scored against West Ham and then we let him go?

Very strange! Really thought he'd be something

 

I tell you another point worth noting... in the last 2/3 years we've been the highest ranked team in the East Mids and if you stretch that further the highest ranked in East and West Mids now Villa are down and WBA have finished below us. If you want to take it even further there's no 'big teams' to attract top quality youth in East Anglia/Cambridge/Northamptonshire. Question is do we throw our catchment wide enough to attract these players into the academy? For a Premier League club we also have a remarkably low level of imports from Europe at that level. 

[EGBFitness]

20 minutes ago, Wookie said:

It's not even necessarily about spending a load of money on facilities or recruiting worldwide, Feyenoord win academy of the year every year in the Netherlands even though Ajax have got more coaches, better facilities and more money but it's because the culture and set up is bang on than they produce decent players. Look at Genk as another example, Carrasco, Origi and De Bruyne all started there and have become much better players than anybody we've produced in the last 15 years and we're a much bigger club in terms of wealth and fanbase. The culture needs to change from the board including managerial appointments, to the recruitment and the actual coaching otherwise we'll never consistently produce even half decent player - of course we'll get the odd one but we're certainly capable of having a stronger academy because at the minute it's emblematic of English football.

I think it is slighltly down to the demands of the premier league why foreign clubs see more success with their academies (within reason) 

 

unfortunately the nature of the premier premier league is instant success and over spending whereas most foreign teams still demand youth players coming through their academies to keep fans happy and also because they know there's a potential to make money from them too. 

 

Ajax get their youth teams experiencing match days from an early getting them having a kick around and kick ups etc before the game, HT etc

[Stadt]

Just now, EGBFitness said:

I think it is slighltly down to the demands of the premier league why foreign clubs see more success with their academies (within reason) 

 

unfortunately the nature of the premier premier league is instant success and over spending whereas most foreign teams still demand youth players coming through their academies to keep fans happy and also because they know there's a potential to make money from them too. 

 

Ajax get their youth teams experiencing match days from an early getting them having a kick around and kick ups etc before the game, HT etc

Yeah that's true to an extent but Southampton are probably the most comparable club to us in stature yet they're consistently producing players that are good enough to play in the first team or have been sold on to better things

[EGBFitness]

25 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

They'd have a chance at Spurs too. Pochettino ain't afraid of throwing young players in.

 

I never got the Dodoo transfer. Scored a hat trick at Bury, scored against West Ham and then we let him go?

It did feel like a slightly strange transfer, whether there was more to it? I think there was talk that he wanted more of a match day role which we must not of felt he was currently ready for? 

 

The only reason i think we sold rather than loaned may have been due to the clubs academy grading. Although he isn't with us we still get points for him playing, obviously the club wants as high as a grading as possible to be able to appeal to youth players and I'm sure there's something financial in there too

[Miquel The Work Geordie]

37 minutes ago, Fox92 said:

I never got the Dodoo transfer. Scored a hat trick at Bury, scored against West Ham and then we let him go?

 

Probably just not very good? 

 

I'm all for giving youth a chance but not for the sake of it and certainly not to the detriment of the first team.

[EGBFitness]

2 minutes ago, Wookie said:

Yeah that's true to an extent but Southampton are probably the most comparable club to us in stature yet they're consistently producing players that are good enough to play in the first team or have been sold on to better things

Yeah that's true, as I've put in previous posts it will also lay with the clubs ambitions too. 

 

Southampton seem happy to accept being a selling club - they have heavily invested in their youth set up and have a lot of respected coaches there, the amount they have made from Walcott, Chamberlain, Shaw, Lallana etc has definitely paid the amount they have invested. Plus they will also get a lot of points each player to have the highest rated academy status. 

 

The costs of running a youth academy runs more than just having a good set up and decent coaches as each player comes with a high financial demand which is why unfortunately academies will only focus on a few players within the academy - we seem to unfortunately be prepared to pay the expenses for a better youth development scheme whereas teams like Southampton are prepared too. Shame as I like I'm sure many fans would like to see

[EGBFitness]

3 hours ago, Foxes1 said:

Perhaps we should look at Broxbourne Borough and see how they do it after all they must be something right having just qualified for the last 16 of the F A Youth cup

However much I agree teams that are doing well need to be looked at, I think it's important to not get sucked into the results to measure potential. 

 

Spurs youth academy was shocking when Sherwood was in charge (results related) but look at the players coming through there now, players was being tested and trailed to enhance their development where as other teams was more focused on the results and are seeing less success. 

[The whole world smiles]

I don't see the problem myself about to sell schlupp for 14 million after a very successful few years for player and club.

 

Chillwell has moved into the first team and looks an incredible talent and future England player. Liam Moore is Readings best player.

 

Compare that over the last few years to someone like Liverpool who have a much bigger catchment area and are a much more prostigeous proposition for young players and parents. And they have had tom Ince and Jon Flanagan.

 

 

[Manwell Pablo]

23 minutes ago, The whole world smiles said:

I don't see the problem myself about to sell schlupp for 14 million after a very successful few years for player and club.

 

Chillwell has moved into the first team and looks an incredible talent and future England player. Liam Moore is Readings best player.

 

Compare that over the last few years to someone like Liverpool who have a much bigger catchment area and are a much more prostigeous proposition for young players and parents. And they have had tom Ince and Jon Flanagan.

 

 

 

They did have Gerard and Owen before that though  

[Aus Fox]

We have had 4 academy players play in the Champions Lwague this season, not many teams can say that.

Players we have produced recently include: 

Chilwell - looks quality with a bright future.

Barnes- time will tell, put must be doing something right, starting to be more involved around the 1st team.

Elder- Was getting race reviews in the Championship and had bane mentioned for an Australian call up before injury.

Dodoo- received international call up for Ghana, scored a couple I think in Scotland and still looks to have something about him.

Moore- playing regularly at a side looking to be promoted to the PL.

Gradel- been unlucky with injury, but a full international and can be as good as anyone on his day.

King- is a club Legend.

Schlupp- a full international, 3 clubs bidding 7 figure sums for his signature.

Piper - To me, without injuries had the world at his feet and could have had a successful PL career.

Mattock - A top career, ruined only by a shit attitude, England U21 international showed he had developed well, just a cnut.

We have others playing in the Championship and SPL, so is it all that bad?

[Kilworthfox]

There are some unreal beliefs held within this topic.

 

Man City are not a healthy example for our club to follow. Or Chelsea, or the other really financially strong teams at the top of the prem. In the way they operate to bring in talented young players from the u.k and worldwide. 

 

The financial gulf between man city and the rest, and what they are willing to do in order to get a child into their organisation is phenomenal.  Clubs like Lcfc just cannot compete. 

 

The definition of success for our youth held in this topic is way off in my opinion.

 

Results in the checkatrade trophy are not important at all. It's just used for gaining experience.

 

Developing young footballers isn't about looking at the match results. Thats illogical and detrimental. 

 

You have to understand the difference between the expectations to produce results in the first team, and developing as a footballer, at the academy from 5 years old to 21! 

 

I have read the opinions regarding the local lads being good enough, it can happen for sure, however as more money floods in to the Premier league,  along with foreign investment, budgets are expanding and global youth competition for academy spots, makes it harder for a Leicestershire or even a player from our region to make a first team appearance. 

 

You may have noticed that lcfc now have a transfer budget for the youth team. We have been fortunate to have been able to bring in a few foreign youth prospects, who may be at a high level in a few years, but as fans we have to give these young people time to develop as people and footballers. 

 

I would ultimately judge the success of the Youth setup at a professional club, by how many of the players from the junior teams, make first team appearances or generate a good financial return, allowing for further investment in the youth setup. This needs to run alongside good links within the community, especially the local junior teams, so they feed info the club on an ongoing future basis.

 

[Lcfcwigstonblue]

We also seem to miss local talent as well, Ben Stevenson at Coventry is from Oadby about to sign for 1.5m to Brentford he is only 19.

[Ric Flair]

2 hours ago, Lcfcwigstonblue said:

We also seem to miss local talent as well, Ben Stevenson at Coventry is from Oadby about to sign for 1.5m to Brentford he is only 19.

Decent-ish youngster but nowhere near the level that James Maddison is according to my Cov mate. We should have looked at him.

[Ecdysiast]

 

On 1/12/2017 at 10:03, baker11 said:

Clucas is looking like a real case of the one that got away and slipped through the net.

This...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/football/article-4103312/Hull-s-Sam-Clucas-goes-6-hour-cafe-brink-cup-final-said-small-cried-sleep-m-living-dream.html

 

 

 

I wouldn't have picked him out either tbf...