Stadt Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Following yesterday's embarrassing defeat (even in a bullshit competition) is it about time we made personnel changes? It seems as though Beaglehole and Rudkin are part of the set up because they've been in their roles for a long time rather than producing successful youth teams.
lcfcben76 Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Seen the highlights for that match and some of the defending was abysmal, also the goalie's positioning for the 3rd goal was pathetic
Ted Maul Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 It's the style of football which is worrying. Needs a total overhaul in philosophy, which will take years to start paying off. Saying that, Chilwell looks top quality, and Barnes is showing good signs.
Stadt Posted 11 January 2017 Author Posted 11 January 2017 2 hours ago, Ted Maul said: It's the style of football which is worrying. Needs a total overhaul in philosophy, which will take years to start paying off. Saying that, Chilwell looks top quality, and Barnes is showing good signs. I think looking at in on individual basis isn't really indicative of how good an academy is, even shit academies will occasionally produce good players. I don't think our academy seem to be particularly progressive with the coaching, a total overhaul at national level has occurred in Germany, Belgium and more recently Sweden which is evidence enough that changes in coaching can completely affect the level of players coming through.
Ted Maul Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 17 minutes ago, Wookie said: I think looking at in on individual basis isn't really indicative of how good an academy is, even shit academies will occasionally produce good players. I don't think or academy seem to be particularly progressive with the coaching, a total overhaul at national level has occurred in Germany, Belgium and more recently Sweden which is evidence enough that changes in coaching can completely affect the level of players coming through. Absolutely. It would take about 5 years to start paying off, and that's why the current coaches won't do it- I think it's quite results orientated, rather than focusing on the development. Potentially to show we belong with the big clubs after gaining category 1 status? It should be all about the technical ability, not picking the 6ft2 lads at under 16 level and going route 1.
Ric Flair Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Won't happen whilst that cnut Rudkin is still here.
Guest Mickyblueeyes Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Our difficulty is that the midlands is quite a compact area. We have a lot of clubs which fall within our catchment and that means more competition. A good youth system with a person hired specifically for the expertise to do that would help. I remember we had Alan Hill joined us at one stage. He masterminded the Leeds youth team in the late 90's and brought through a lot of quality in a short space of time. Unfortunately, he was let go when we entered administration and we never really got to see his philosophies in action.
Ashley Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 We need something like Southampton have. Then again if we get our new training ground that could become reality. Southampton have an excellent set up even scouting network based at their training ground in which they have a room/office called the Black box and they scout players and managers who have similar philosophy to what they currently have.
StriderHiryu Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 It's somewhat surprising given how awesome our owners are that we've not had any major overhauls of our youth setup yet. Probably want to make us a consistent Premier League team first I guess? A complete overhaul is very expensive, time consuming and takes a long time to pay dividends. Chilwell is looking good but prior to him the only real success must have been Heskey. Man City have spent hundreds of millions on their setup but haven't yet produced a home grown player! They recruit from around the world instead. We have training schools in Thailand so maybe they will pay off one day? Problem is that if our youth setup is sub standard over here it's hard to imagine it being great over there.
Fox92 Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Tbf to Rudkin, for all the stick he gets, he has overseen Moore, Schlupp, Mattock, Stearman, Gradel, King etc coming through. I know it's not great numbers but managers have to believe in youth too.
Ric Flair Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Our owners pumped loads in to the academy but since then it's gone stale. I'm also not convinced Ranieri cares. He's all about signing 19-22 year old players to develop in the first team rather than recruit the very best 14-18 year olds and get them ready to make the breakthrough. Our only dynamic and forward thinking coach was fcuked off out the club. Hopefully Ben Petty can help but he's not got the influence that cretins like Rudkin have got.
1972 Fox Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 1 hour ago, StriderHiryu said: It's somewhat surprising given how awesome our owners are that we've not had any major overhauls of our youth setup yet. Probably want to make us a consistent Premier League team first I guess? A complete overhaul is very expensive, time consuming and takes a long time to pay dividends. Chilwell is looking good but prior to him the only real success must have been Heskey. Man City have spent hundreds of millions on their setup but haven't yet produced a home grown player! They recruit from around the world instead. We have training schools in Thailand so maybe they will pay off one day? Problem is that if our youth setup is sub standard over here it's hard to imagine it being great over there. Don't think that Thailand are likely to produce many players IMHO.
Rob1742 Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 Too many people feathering their own nests, together with an arrogance that drives the youth towards other clubs. Need to understand they are not tin gods and communicate better. Perhaps then youngsters and their families might have a positive feeling towards the club. Too many stories out there of other clubs treating the kids better than we do.
EGBFitness Posted 11 January 2017 Posted 11 January 2017 I think the problem lies with the club not seeing and sticking to a plan from top to bottom. Either players we have dont fit into the system we adapt in the first team or we don't have the resources to develop more individuals. i would love for us to adopt Athletico Bilboas philosophy and only look for players within the Leicester/Leicestershire area to develop and promote within the academy but can't ever see that happening unfortunately - there is talent within the area but the club seems to have little patience and only want to look at players released from the so called big teams. I like how much Man City have looked to develop their academy too.
Dan Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 We've not done nearly as well as we ought to have for years in my eyes. We're a decent sized club with no-one that big around us. You can't blame catchment area. I just don't think we as a club have a culture of bringing youth through. We don't really have any kind of emphasis on it. It isn't seen as being that important and that for me needs to change. If we're looking solid in the table in a few games time we ought to look at getting Chilwell as first choice and Barnes, if he's as good as touted, at least being involved. Throw them in gradually.
desertfox2 Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 9 hours ago, Mickyblueeyes said: Our difficulty is that the midlands is quite a compact area. We have a lot of clubs which fall within our catchment and that means more competition. A good youth system with a person hired specifically for the expertise to do that would help. I remember we had Alan Hill joined us at one stage. He masterminded the Leeds youth team in the late 90's and brought through a lot of quality in a short space of time. Unfortunately, he was let go when we entered administration and we never really got to see his philosophies in action. Man city, are in a very compact area and they probably have the best academy going atm. I do agree though that it comes down to the people in charge and let's face it it doesn't matter the competition any youth side from the prem champions should not be getting beat 6-1 by Cheltenham. Serious questions need to be asked. In today's climate of insane transfer fees particularly for home-grown players (Stones 50m) even more, importance should be placed on bringing through players. Chilwell has looked a revelation so far, so that's positive but ideally we need to be bringing more through.
themightyfin Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 7 hours ago, Dan LCFC said: We've not done nearly as well as we ought to have for years in my eyes. We're a decent sized club with no-one that big around us. You can't blame catchment area. I just don't think we as a club have a culture of bringing youth through. We don't really have any kind of emphasis on it. It isn't seen as being that important and that for me needs to change. If we're looking solid in the table in a few games time we ought to look at getting Chilwell as first choice and Barnes, if he's as good as touted, at least being involved. Throw them in gradually. Throw them in gradually?
lgfualol Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 Quite a miracle that Chilwell has progressed like he has done. I remember a couple of years ago our academy seemed to win all the time, but we had an older youth team iirc. Maybe the academy has been affected by the success of the main team? Also the academies in Thailand seem like a giant waste of time.
Sol thewall Bamba Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 12 hours ago, Ashley said: We need something like Southampton have. Then again if we get our new training ground that could become reality. Southampton have an excellent set up even scouting network based at their training ground in which they have a room/office called the Black box and they scout players and managers who have similar philosophy to what they currently have. That's used mainly for the first team though isn't it? I grew up in that area and the number of scouts that used to come around to local Sunday league youth games was noticeable. They also send academy players out to training session with "partner" clubs (well they used to anyway) to aid in the training sessions and they were probably told to keep an eye out as well.
Ashley Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 29 minutes ago, Sol thewall Bamba said: That's used mainly for the first team though isn't it? I grew up in that area and the number of scouts that used to come around to local Sunday league youth games was noticeable. They also send academy players out to training session with "partner" clubs (well they used to anyway) to aid in the training sessions and they were probably told to keep an eye out as well. Think it's for both not 100% on it though. Like I said IF we do get our new training ground I can see the youth being heavily invested in.
AjcW Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 14 hours ago, Ted Maul said: It's the style of football which is worrying. Needs a total overhaul in philosophy, which will take years to start paying off. Saying that, Chilwell looks top quality, and Barnes is showing good signs. Good players will come along locally no matter what an academy does. All we've done is sign the two of them, some players are just talented. 12 hours ago, Fox92 said: Tbf to Rudkin, for all the stick he gets, he has overseen Moore, Schlupp, Mattock, Stearman, Gradel, King etc coming through. I know it's not great numbers but managers have to believe in youth too. - Moore: Championship - Schlupp: being sold - Mattock: possibly dead? (occasionally plays at Rotherham) - Stearman: On the championship loan wheel of misfortune - Gradel: crocked - King: oh good you found one good one As the poster above said we used to win week in week out a couple of years ago, but the club has failed to adapt to the U23 system, whilst other Premier League sides occasionally use the games to get first teamer's back to fitness, we use at least 3 slots every game just to give players we can't shift game time, meaning that three U18 players aren't getting the chance to be tested at a higher level. It worries me that we don't have a higher turnover of coaches at that level, the fact that U18, U23 management and youth development has been the same for longer than I can remember is a terrible thing, just look at how much the game has changed in that time! I think the fact none of the management we've brought in in the last 6 or 7 years have brought their own youth staff in shows that there's something going on internally and they hold a lot of power when it comes to holding onto their jobs!
SemperEadem Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 Clucas is looking like a real case of the one that got away and slipped through the net.
Ted Maul Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 14 minutes ago, AjcW said: Good players will come along locally no matter what an academy does. All we've done is sign the two of them, some players are just talented. True enough, but it was only a couple of years ago that we were hearing that we had one of our most talented crops ever coming through- Chilwell, Choudhury, Ndukwu, Barnes... Time will tell how they all do in the game. Don't get me wrong, I think the model we have is wrong and out of tune with the modern game. The limited style of football played throughout the academy could have held some of them back, who knows. I think we need someone new to head up the academy who understands the modern game, is a talented coach, will get the best out of the players and commands respect- someone along the lines of Vieira at Man City.
LCFC FOX Posted 12 January 2017 Posted 12 January 2017 Choudhoury, Barnes, Nduwku are the three names I always hear as the most potential at the moment. What's the betting they struggle to make the championship?
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