Right place, right time, right person

[ozleicester]

I was discussing with the lovely Mrs Oz the other day after our CL win.. that i was conflicted. I didnt think CR shouldve been sacked, but results tell me differently. She came out with this gem (IMO)

 

Its all about the right person at the right time...like a car accident, you need a quick responder, an emergency person keeping you alive... then you get to hospital and you need a skilled doc to repair you andcarry you through your return to life... and then you need a physio type, to make sure you can rebuild and continue to develop and then become the best you can.

 

And i realised this is probably what has happened over the past few years...

 

Pearson, got us out of the wreck, saved our lives but that was his limit.

Dr CR came in treated us, did all of the diying up, rebuilt us and took us to the Championship. But h wasnt right to continue to develop us.

Physio CS has come in.. is he the man to develop and take us to the next level?

[Fox92]

We just weren't good enough this season and Ranieri looked uncapable of getting us out of a relegation battle.

 

It's not that complected. 

[Guest Foxin_mad]

Its true.

 

Another way to look at it is that last season we were a well oiled machine made of many cogs, take away any cog or the oil and the machine stops working. That is what happened this season.

 

Claudio took out some of the sports scientist, sports psychologists, changed the diets, changed the training, changed the tactics and everything ground to a halt.

[Al-aLondon-Foxile]

So how do people like Ferguson and Wenger have the prolonged success? Nah, over simplified for me. I just think CR tinkered too much, wanted a different strategy that the players weren't able to adapt to it. He was stubborn and wouldn't go back to last seasons formula, he got the boot and CS has immediately reverted to what works for this group. 

[yorkie1999]

1 hour ago, Foxin_mad said:

Its true.

 

Another way to look at it is that last season we were a well oiled machine made of many cogs, take away any cog or the oil and the machine stops working. That is what happened this season.

 

Claudio took out some of the sports scientist, sports psychologists, changed the diets, changed the training, changed the tactics and everything ground to a halt.

Problem is now, putting all that stuff back.

[z-layrex]

Not one nurse in that analogy when they do most of the work.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

6 minutes ago, yorkie1999 said:

Problem is now, putting all that stuff back.

We don't know the long term damage yet. I guess the option in the summer is to continue on our current track and begin to put everything back in place which I would imagine Shakespeare would want to do.

 

The other option is we bring in a completely new manager and backroom team and change the fundamentals of the club, maybe progressing to a more possession based team.

 

Long term we probably need to adapt, I don't think we can play our current low possession style forever, it also seriously limits the kind of managers we can approach and we are not very adaptable and see to struggle when in possession of the ball.

[easilee]

I honestly think almost anyone could have managed us last season and got the same result.

As long as they didn't interfere with the team too much and were a good figurehead who could charm the press with quotes and catchy quips.

It's when CR started to try and establish his own style of football instead of leaving it to Pearson's and Shakey's team, that it went to shyte.

 

 

[cheshamfox17]

1 hour ago, Al-aLondon-Foxile said:

So how do people like Ferguson and Wenger have the prolonged success? Nah, over simplified for me. I just think CR tinkered too much, wanted a different strategy that the players weren't able to adapt to it. He was stubborn and wouldn't go back to last seasons formula, he got the boot and CS has immediately reverted to what works for this group. 

I don't think this ever going to happen again, managers will never be given the same amount of control over a club.

 

Bela Guttman always talked about players switching off from a managers methods after three years an to be honest he is pretty much spot on with that, in the main. The difference for Ferguson and for a time Wenger was, if that was happening they had the power and authority to get rid of any player but no manager will have that any more and the only reason Wenger is clinging on is because he basically built the modern Arsenal.

 

We won't see another Ferguson or Wenger

[leicesterlad1989]

Following on from what others have said, I don't actually believe that Ranieri did any of the "diying" you suggest. He just followed on from what Pearson had built.

 

I will forever remember him as the man who helped us win the league title but if we are going to be critical, this season he caused his own downfall. He could quite easily have continued as our manager if he didn't try to piss about with everything that made us so successful last season. We will never know what went on behind the scenes but the last 3 performances have proven enough to me and most other fans that he F-it up.

 

As for the future, it depends what the owners want. Shakey can continue this "style" of football and we may continue to be successful but as has been proven in previous transfer windows, players that suit this style are hard to come across. If we want a complete change in style then we need a new manager and players to suit.

[TAFKA Castroneves]

2 hours ago, Al-aLondon-Foxile said:

So how do people like Ferguson and Wenger have the prolonged success? Nah, over simplified for me. I just think CR tinkered too much, wanted a different strategy that the players weren't able to adapt to it. He was stubborn and wouldn't go back to last seasons formula, he got the boot and CS has immediately reverted to what works for this group. 

This is exactly the reason Pundits are idoits - "the players weren't playing for the manager" - um, yes they were - THAT was the problem (it was so obvious from the first game at Hull we weren't going to be trying to win the ball up the pitch anymore going forward), he was instructing the players to play in the manner we saw at the start of the season. It's his own fault, always will love him for the part he played - but it's just fact.

 

That no doubt will piss off the lads as their integrity has been challenged - hopefully it can be the catalyst for a special end of season (so far so good), the only way we get revenge at the pundits and all those casting stones in glass houses is to go out there and play with more desire and intensity than any of them ever could - there's no wonder Arsenal hate us now, we've shown more passion from this group of players in two seasons than Wenger has managed possibly in seven to eight years.

 

We really should have most of our lads (obvs the English ones) in the England team at the moment for attitude alone,

how many times in a international competition do England end up trugging off the pitch looking like arsenal do every time they meet Bayern Munich, heads down, unable to have the basic passion to even win the game.

[Guest Foxin_mad]

I don't think we really ever saw a lack of effort from the players, certainly not right up until the end. It was a lack of game plan, it was obvious, we would start games off ok, not really understand what the plan was, defend, then concede, then heads would drop, every game was the same.

[filthyfox]

Shakey fits all three

[MPH]

2 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Not one nurse in that analogy when they do most of the work.

 

 

Tea lady, kit man, groundsmen, ball pumperupperer... all important but less thanked and seen!

[ozleicester]

3 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Not one nurse in that analogy when they do most of the work.

your sexist assumption that the Dr is not female disappoints me

edit oh dear now ive been sexist in the assumption that the nurse is female... DOH!

[Captain...]

Ranieri, whether through instruction or choice or circumstance came in last season and did his best to slot into a well oiled machine. He made some changes but his main role was chief cheer leader motivating the players and getting the press and football watching public onside.

 

This season I don't know how many things he did wrong, but the reports of him ignoring the sports science team was when I got worried. Our sports science department is one of the best in the world, we have invested a lot of money in recruiting people that know their stuff and buying the best equipment to help them. We have been held up as an example in the industry of how to get an edge by looking after the players. To start ignoring that, for whatever reason, was very worrying. You look at this season and we have had so many more nightly little injuries and longer term injuries and we have been unable to get our new recruits up to the fitness levels they need. Our summer recruits have all looked out of sorts, Slimani, Musa, Hernandez, Mendy all suffered injuries all under performed. Kaputska not physically ready yet.

 

I don't buy that Ranieri as a specialist was no longer needed and we needed someone else. Ranieri for whatever reason, stopped doing the things that had brought us success. Only he knows why. We didn't need someone else, we didn't need a new specialist we just needed to carry on as we were. 

[Renart]

5 hours ago, Fox92 said:

We just weren't good enough this season and Ranieri looked uncapable of getting us out of a relegation battle.

 

It's not that complected. 

Jesus, let it go man! Every time anyone posts anything that gives any credit to CR you are straight in there! Always the very next post. And it is more complicated than the binary that you have created. We all accept that things have improved since he has left but there is far more nuance in the situation than your vitriolic, told you so attitude conveys. People are trying to explore some of that and you are always straight in there with an ill-informed shut-down comment!

[broughtonblue]

Ohhhhhh I thought this topic was going to be about the magnificent lady who jumped out of the crowd on Tuesday night, and saved that blokes life pitch side by giving CPR. She worked furiously and tirelessly for ages

[ZeGuy]

4 hours ago, easilee said:

I honestly think almost anyone could have managed us last season and got the same result.

As long as they didn't interfere with the team too much and were a good figurehead who could charm the press with quotes and catchy quips.

It's when CR started to try and establish his own style of football instead of leaving it to Pearson's and Shakey's team, that it went to shyte.

 

 

Have a word with yourself.

[Renart]

4 hours ago, easilee said:

I honestly think almost anyone could have managed us last season and got the same result.

As long as they didn't interfere with the team too much and were a good figurehead who could charm the press with quotes and catchy quips.

It's when CR started to try and establish his own style of football instead of leaving it to Pearson's and Shakey's team, that it went to shyte.

 

 

 

This is way too simplified and also these things ARE part of good management. A big positive has in recent time been turned into a major negative. The guy has gone and it seems to be that this was for sound footballing reasons but let's not start taking away his part of the achievement.

[Fox92]

43 minutes ago, Renart said:

Jesus, let it go man! Every time anyone posts anything that gives any credit to CR you are straight in there! Always the very next post. And it is more complicated than the binary that you have created. We all accept that things have improved since he has left but there is far more nuance in the situation than your vitriolic, told you so attitude conveys. People are trying to explore some of that and you are always straight in there with an ill-informed shut-down comment!

So I take it you missed my long posts the other day defending him?

 

I'm just fed up with these threads popping up. He's gone, let it be.

[easilee]

2 hours ago, ZeGuy said:

Have a word with yourself.

I did.....and I agreed.

Sorry Ze but CR, as much as I loved his reign, was a figurehead. Which he performed to perfection.

I wish his exit wasn't so disrespectful though.....he could've been employed upstairs for a season and then move on with dignity.

[dorsetboy]

as much as i am grateful to claudio i did say when we appointed him that 

a) the team was still nigels team and played his way and claudio said himself he wouldnt tinker and he didnt and shaky played a huge part and we won the league 

b) claudio was brought in as the face for the press after the incidents with pearson 

 

c) he began to tinker 2nd season , changed to much to quick and it all went wrong 

 

shaky has come in and gone back to basics with tactics the players know and were used to and no doubt training has gone back to how it was and rest periods reintroduced

 

result = 2 pl wins and quarter finals of champions league 

 

still love claudio though and will never forget his input into our greatest season ever but it just wasnt to be long term 

[Melbourne Fuchs]

21 hours ago, z-layrex said:

Not one nurse in that analogy when they do most of the work.

Steve Walsh was the nurse!

[ALC Fox]

17 hours ago, Renart said:

 

This is way too simplified and also these things ARE part of good management. A big positive has in recent time been turned into a major negative. The guy has gone and it seems to be that this was for sound footballing reasons but let's not start taking away his part of the achievement.

Agreed.

 

Who else would have done what Ranieri did last season? He brought in his own assistants but stuck with Shakey, Walsh, and Stowell as well.

 

Sure, Shakey and Walsh had just signed new deals but even if the owners insisted that they were to be kept on, Ranieri could have at least insisted that his guys were the main men.

 

Ranieri deserves a lot of credit for not changing too much, but also for the little tweaks he did make: switching to 4-4-2; giving Kanté a chance; changing the full backs from Schlupp and De Laet to Fuchs and Simpson; and keeping the players, media, and fans grounded in their expectations.

 

This season, perhaps he thought he had enough credit in the bank to be able to change things a bit more radically and not worry too much about how the season went. Or maybe he just genuinely thought that changing our style of play would mean we'd be fitter and play better because of the higher number of games the players would play (factoring in that maybe more of them would start to get international recognition).

 

This is all conjecture of course, but I don't think any other manager could have done what Ranieri did last season. Not Pearson, not Shakespeare, not Jose bloody Mourinho. But the owners were correct to sack him this season. Premier League football means too much both financially and to the reputation of the club.

 

After last season, Shakey knows what must be done this season, and I do think he's now the man to take us forward.