General Election, June 8th

[Alf Bentley]

Just now, Alf Bentley said:

 

Is Barry Gardiner the man with the beard?

 

I've spotted Emily Thornberry, Angela Rayner, Nia Griffith & Rebecca Long-Bailey.....though Thornberry & Rayner are both unimpressive.

 

Keir Starmer presented Labour's Brexit policy at the start, but haven't seen him since (but then Brexit has barely been mentioned).

Haven't seen Tom Watson or Clive Lewis, but both of them have quite marginal seats so they might be concentrating on their constituencies.

I'd hope to see a bit more of them in the next 10 days - plus Jon Ashworth, as Shadow Health Secretary.

 

Mind you, which Tories have been prominent, apart from Theresa? 

We've seen a bit of Amber Rudd (unimpressive), Boris (loose canon), Damian Green & Priti Patel (competent-ish) & Michael Fallon (duffer).

I can't remember seeing Philip Hammond, Sajid Javid, Jeremy Hunt, David Davis, Andrea Leadsom or Liam Fox

 

 

 

[leicsmac]

31 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

Considering the fact that these monsters are predominately being poisoned online I don't personally see these new laws as being a bad thing at this early stage.  Having more bobbies on the beat won't make a damn bit of difference frankly.

 

Meanwhile you'll happily go and vote for people who have actively supported and befriended individuals that have, and continue to wage war against our people, our values and our way of life.  Agents of our enemies indeed.

 

But then again I know I'm not talking to someone that's proud of his country so I'm sure it won't matter. 

 

 

1

Really? We're going for the "more-patriotic-than-thou" argument here? Though using the term "quisling" earlier on should have been a hint, I suppose.

 

Having this election suddenly spin onto "national security" rather than other topics is a godsend for May - it allows her to push all the buttons necessary.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Is Barry Gardiner the man with the beard?

 

I've spotted Emily Thornberry, Angela Rayner, Nia Griffith & Rebecca Long-Bailey.....though Thornberry Rayner are both unimpressive.

 

Keir Starmer presented Labour's Brexit policy at the start, but haven't seen him since (but then Brexit has barely been mentioned).

Haven't seen Tom Watson or Clive Lewis, but both of them have quite marginal seats so they might be concentrating on their constituencies.

I'd hope to see a bit more of them in the next 10 days - plus Jon Ashworth, as Shadow Health Secretary.

 

Mind you, which Tories have been prominent, apart from Theresa? 

We've seen a bit of Amber Rudd (unimpressive), Boris (loose canon), Damian Green & Priti Patel (competent-ish) & Michael Fallon (duffer).

I can't remember seeing Philip Hammond, Sajid Javid, Jeremy Hunt, David Davis, Andrea Leadsom or Liam Fox

 

 

I'll give you Thornberry, I'd forgot about her but I can also see why they wouldn't want her on telly too much either.

 

Not normally a fan of Amber Rudd but I thought she did alright this morning.

[Webbo]

Jeremy Corbyn blamed Britain and the West for Isis’s murder of Alan Henning, the Salford cab driver beheaded by “Jihadi John”.

The Labour leader had said Henning’s death was “the price of jingoism” by the West when he addressed a Stop the War rally a day after the gruesome video of the killing was published online.

Corbyn also said that the rise of Isis, which has claimed the Manchester bomb attack that killed 22 people last week, was “payback” for western “arrogance”.

On Friday Corbyn insisted that he did not seek to blame terrorist attacks on British foreign policy.

However, The Sunday Times has identified dozens of occasions since 9/11 where he has used acts of Islamist terror to blame or criticise Britain and the West while not condemning the attacks themselves.

In October 2014, the day after a video had emerged showing the murder of Henning, who had been an Isis hostage for 10 months, Corbyn told a Stop the War rally: “I’m pleased that we started with a period of silence for Alan Henning . . . because we have to remember that the price of war, the price of intervention, the price of jingoism, is somebody else’s son, and somebody else’s daughter, being killed.”

In another revelation — which last night sparked claims from Sir Michael Fallon, the defence secretary, that Corbyn is “unfit” to be prime minister — it emerged that he had attended a wreath-laying at the grave of a Palestinian terrorist involved in the massacre of 11 athletes at the Munich Olympics in 1972.

He had travelled to north Africa in October 2014, writing an article for the Morning Star describing a ceremony where “wreaths were laid . . . on the graves of [those] killed by Mossad agents in Paris”.

This is an apparent reference to Atef Bseiso, a PLO agent who was involved in the 1972 hostage-taking and massacre.

Three days after the London suicide bombings of July 7, 2005 which killed 52 people, Corbyn had said: “We have to recognise that the security of this country is at risk . . . because of the way we inflict an insecurity on so many other people around the world.”

In June 2015 he said: “None of us are in favour of what Isis are doing. But those groups don’t come from nowhere . . . If we in our arrogance decide that the only solution to every conflict around the world is for western troops to go in, bomb, destroy and occupy, then there is a payback.”

Writing for Socialist Campaign Group News, the journal of Labour’s hard-left MPs, in the month after 9/11, Corbyn had condemned the attacks but said the hijackers who flew aircraft into the World Trade Center and Pentagon had acted with “an enormous amount of skill”.

This morning Corbyn told ITV’s Peston on Sunday: “Surely the two ceasefires followed by the Good Friday Agreement and the acceptance of the differing historical traditions between the nationalist and unionist communities in Ireland is something that has brought about a long-term peace, which the rest of the world has learnt many lessons.

“Surely we could give credit to all those – unionists and republicans – who brought that about.”

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/jeremy-corbyn-blames-the-west-for-jihadi-john-beheading-of-aid-worker-alan-henning-dz356f92t?CMP=TNLEmail_118918_1903081

[Carl the Llama]

2 hours ago, BlueSi13 said:

Considering the fact that these monsters are predominately being poisoned online I don't personally see these new laws as being a bad thing at this early stage.  Having more bobbies on the beat won't make a damn bit of difference frankly.

 

Meanwhile you'll happily go and vote for people who have actively supported and befriended individuals that have, and continue to wage war against our people, our values and our way of life.  Agents of our enemies indeed.

 

But then again I know I'm not talking to someone that's proud of his country so I'm sure it won't matter. 

 

 

Did I say that I plan on voting Labour?  What gives you that impression, the fact that I tried offering a bit of perspective?  The fact that you have an issue with Corbyn for supporting people that wage war against us but seem to have no issue with May actively supplying people who wage war against us says it all really.  It's obvious you have no intention of questioning your beliefs and would rather pursue a war on anybody who doesn't vote blindly for Mrs May as you clearly do.

 

As for defending the government seizing control over which websites you can and cannot visit, well you may as well move to China if that's what you're into.

 

And if you must know my voting intentions because it clearly means a lot to you: I've no idea who, if anyone, I'll vote for.  All of the major candidates and those around them grow more calamitous by the day with a few exceptions and while May is entirely unelectable in my opinion I'm struggling to find an alternative who I'd feel comfortable backing right now.  I'm not going to let any feelings of loyalty towards whichever party Corbyn, Farron et al. represent blind me to their obvious failings.  I doubt you can understand that notion though: If all you have to support your argument is a dumb nationalist ad hominem then you clearly haven't thought your points through very well.

[Guest]

Take a look at @jeremycorbyn's Tweet: https://twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/868776067695353856?s=09

[Guest]

Tories promise to help energy efficiency when talking to the public then do this behind closed doors

 

UK lobbies Europe to dilute flagship energy efficiency law

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/may/28/uk-presses-europe-to-dilute-flagship-energy-efficiency-law

[Guest MattP]

If the Liberal Democrats can't get your vote in this election Carl they may as well pack up!

 

Anyone watching the Sturgeon interview? Neil really going at her, sounds like public services are an absolute shambles under the SNP.

 

[Guest]

Pupils at London school asked to clean their classroom as cuts bite

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/may/27/pupils-clean-classrooms-tory-funding-cuts-bite

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, toddybad said:

Pupils at London school asked to clean their classroom as cuts bite

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2017/may/27/pupils-clean-classrooms-tory-funding-cuts-bite

They should do a cleaning lesson, my kids could certainly do with that.  

[Guest]

Don't joke, mattp and webbo will think they've got a second line of defence against what the tories are doing to the country....

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, toddybad said:

Don't joke, mattp and webbo will think they've got a second line of defence against what the tories are doing to the country....

Ooh, catty.

[Realist Guy In The Room]

23 minutes ago, MattP said:

If the Liberal Democrats can't get your vote in this election Carl they may as well pack up!

 

Anyone watching the Sturgeon interview? Neil really going at her, sounds like public services are an absolute shambles under the SNP.

 

Sturgeon has been the best against Neil so far.

 

Neil painted a bad picture of the services but I thought she actually explained herself quite well.

 

[davieG]

7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

They should do a cleaning lesson, my kids could certainly do with that.  

Germ Warfare

Note: Other suppliers are available

[Dr The Singh]

I hear Dianne Abbott changes her views as quick as she changes her hair.  I also here she also changes her man as quick as she changes her undies, Corbyn best get into there quick

[Alf Bentley]

It's being reported that Amber Rudd will represent the Tories at the BBC Leaders' Debate on Wednesday, with May still refusing to take part.

Labour have yet to say who they're going to send.

 

It's shameful that May won't take part, especially when she's making strong leadership such a big part of her campaign.

I know that, before 2010, there was a long tradition of sitting PMs refusing as they felt they could only lose, not gain ground.

But surely she should want to show what a strong leader looks like and feels that she can outperform Corbyn?

 

I hope Corbyn calls the Tories' bluff and decides to take part, though I'm not expecting it.

Some reckon that it would be all risk for him. I don't agree. With questions to all panelists from a public audience not a top interviewer, he could cope fine.

I can't see all the others (Farron, SNP bod. Wood, Lucas & Nuttall) ganging up on him, either. Apart from Nuttall, they'd be more inclined to attack the Tories, surely, not least as the Lib Dems & SNP are mainly fighting the Tories at constituency level.

It would be a great opportunity to repeatedly highlight May's refusal to attend, too.

 

If Corbyn doesn't attend, I hope Labour send Keir Starmer, or maybe Rebecca Long-Bailey......not Thornberry or Abbott (McDonnell would be more competent, but somehow comes across as both dull and sinister).

[Strokes]

34 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

It's being reported that Amber Rudd will represent the Tories at the BBC Leaders' Debate on Wednesday, with May still refusing to take part.

Labour have yet to say who they're going to send.

 

It's shameful that May won't take part, especially when she's making strong leadership such a big part of her campaign.

I know that, before 2010, there was a long tradition of sitting PMs refusing as they felt they could only lose, not gain ground.

But surely she should want to show what a strong leader looks like and feels that she can outperform Corbyn?

 

I hope Corbyn calls the Tories' bluff and decides to take part, though I'm not expecting it.

Some reckon that it would be all risk for him. I don't agree. With questions to all panelists from a public audience not a top interviewer, he could cope fine.

I can't see all the others (Farron, SNP bod. Wood, Lucas & Nuttall) ganging up on him, either. Apart from Nuttall, they'd be more inclined to attack the Tories, surely, not least as the Lib Dems & SNP are mainly fighting the Tories at constituency level.

It would be a great opportunity to repeatedly highlight May's refusal to attend, too.

 

If Corbyn doesn't attend, I hope Labour send Keir Starmer, or maybe Rebecca Long-Bailey......not Thornberry or Abbott (McDonnell would be more competent, but somehow comes across as both dull and sinister).

Its pretty cowardly, she has almost tried to make it presidential yet refuses to debate. I could have understood her logic before campaigning began but like you say the strong and stable self title, just looks like a sham (not that it already didn't).

[Guest]

Corbyn should take part. He's done well during this campaign so call the bluff and talk directly to the people - that's the way to get his personal rating up. Plus he can slag off may not turning up and I'd expect that to be noticed by the public and see may lose a huge amount of respect and trust. It's as if she doesn't want to be prime minister!

[Guest MattP]

It's just absolutely ridiculous, show some fight. If you seriously can't tear Corbyn apart after he's come out with all his guff this week then you don't deserve to be Prime Minister.

 

Not only that but as PM you get the last closing statement, a chance to directly say to the country it's a choice between her and Rudd or Corbyn and Abbott with them getting no right of reply after. Should be jumping at the chance. 

 

They shouldn't even be allowed to send replacements, it's a leaders debate.

[LiberalFox]

I've literally no idea what will happen come polling day. I've not heard anyone who isn't a Tory activist express satisfaction in their intention to vote Tory. The Tories have targeted their most loyal and valuable source of bloc votes with the abandonment of the triple lock, the "dementia tax" and refusal to rule out tax increases despite the tax take being at a historical high. If you thought the Tory party could be relied upon to defend individual freedoms then you would be wrong with plans to construct a surveillance apparatus that China would be envious of. Theresa May claims to be a "strong and stable" leader but shows no strength by hiding from the public and no stability by being the first PM to abandon a manifesto pledge before an election has occurred. Most Tories openly admit they don't want May to lead them into 2022 so we have no idea if she will serve the full term or who will replace her.  

 

 

 

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, LiberalFox said:

I've literally no idea what will happen come polling day. I've not heard anyone who isn't a Tory activist express satisfaction in their intention to vote Tory. The Tories have targeted their most loyal and valuable source of bloc votes with the abandonment of the triple lock, the "dementia tax" and refusal to rule out tax increases despite the tax take being at a historical high. If you thought the Tory party could be relied upon to defend individual freedoms then you would be wrong with plans to construct a surveillance apparatus that China would be envious of. Theresa May claims to be a "strong and stable" leader but shows no strength by hiding from the public and no stability by being the first PM to abandon a manifesto pledge before an election has occurred. Most Tories openly admit they don't want May to lead them into 2022 so we have no idea if she will serve the full term or who will replace her.  

 

 

 

The thing is though, if you are right leaning, like me. What other options do you have? UKIP have gone more BNP, there is nothing else. Labour have moved quite far left and the liberal democrats, well I couldn't vote for them based on their unwavering love of Brussels and I couldn't tell you what else they stand for. That's why I've abstained but I can see why people are voting Tory, the other choices offer just as little or even less, for us.

[LiberalFox]

6 minutes ago, Strokes said:

The thing is though, if you are right leaning, like me. What other options do you have? UKIP have gone more BNP, there is nothing else. Labour have moved quite far left and the liberal democrats, well I couldn't vote for them based on their unwavering love of Brussels and I couldn't tell you what else they stand for. That's why I've abstained but I can see why people are voting Tory, the other choices offer just as little or even less, for us.

 

Fair point. I'd obviously say you should vote Lib Dem in spite of their stance on Brexit as they are economically centrist so shouldn't be toxic to someone on the centre-right. They are also the only party who offer any realistic opposition to centralisation of power and the erosion of our civil liberties. I can't pretend we have a particularly strong leader although I don't think he's quite the religious zealot he's made out to be. As it turns out, trying to target the "48%" has been a mistake, I also think our actual Brexit policy is poor. We aren't a single issue party though, the party as a collective supports membership of the EU and Brexit will have a big impact on Britain over the next decade or so. Liberalism in the UK massively pre-dates the EU.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, LiberalFox said:

 

Fair point. I'd obviously say you should vote Lib Dem in spite of their stance on Brexit as they are economically centrist so shouldn't be toxic to someone on the centre-right. They are also the only party who offer any realistic opposition to centralisation of power and the erosion of our civil liberties. I can't pretend we have a particularly strong leader although I don't think he's quite the religious zealot he's made out to be. As it turns out, trying to target the "48%" has been a mistake, I also think our actual Brexit policy is poor. We aren't a single issue party though, the party as a collective supports membership of the EU and Brexit will have a big impact on Britain over the next decade or so. Liberalism in the UK massively pre-dates the EU.

I'm aware of the historic merits of the liberals and although their core and maybe yourself think different, I actually think they were more than decent in the Coalition. However there are some policies I cannot support, it just seems this time round every single party has atleast one of them. Plus Tim Farron is odious.

[Benguin]

This vote is tricky for me and I still can't decide who to vote for. I think I'm leading towards conservatives but I'm not a big fan of Theresa May. I think Labour is a wasted vote as I feel the party will have another civil war and therefore Corbyn might either resign or fail to get much of what he wants done. I'm in two minds with Corbyn as I feel he is resilient and a good advocate but I disagree with quite a lot of what he says but that said, it's difficult in todays political climate to find someone you can back completely. The rest of the parties are either a joke or just not strong enough.

[LiberalFox]

3 minutes ago, Strokes said:

I'm aware of the historic merits of the liberals and although their core and maybe yourself think different, I actually think they were more than decent in the Coalition. However there are some policies I cannot support, it just seems this time round every single party has atleast one of them. Plus Tim Farron is odious.

 

Fair enough. Bad leader and wrong direction on Brexit could probably sum up what's gone wrong for us.