Huge fire London building

[Strokes]

44 minutes ago, stripeyfox said:

From what I've read, the cladding whilst being "retardant" to fire doesn't mean it can't burn. But the cavity in between the cladding and the outer surface of the building has an air "void" which seems to have funnelled the fire. I suppose the cladding, if it gets hot enough, burns. 

 

 

These things should be tested for its purpose of use though. We wouldn't accept that excuse for anything else. The whole saga seems to be littered with basic health and safety errors.

[stripeyfox]

9 minutes ago, Strokes said:

These things should be tested for its purpose of use though. We wouldn't accept that excuse for anything else. The whole saga seems to be littered with basic health and safety errors.

Agreed. Not sure what function the cladding has anyway, apart from aesthetics. I've heard it referred to as rain cladding - which I presume means it has a secondary (or maybe primary) function from preventing water damage to the building over time?

 

Either way, something has gone badly wrong here (maybe the warm night with lots of windows open contributed to the "chimney" effect) and innocent people have perished in the most horrendously terrifying circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

[stripeyfox]

8 hours ago, The Guvnor said:

There was a 'stay put' policy in these block of flats so with the fire protection of compartments, concrete floors and ceilings and individual flat fire/smoke detection in theory no need for a general Fire Alarm system I guess. Whatever the configuration all will hopefully be thoroughly investigated, the appropriate legal action taken if necessary and appropriate fire safety measures implemented. 

Our feelings at the moment have to be with everyone affected by this hideous tragedy 

Evening mate. As someone who clearly has a lot of experience in fire fighting (massive respect for that - you must have seen some terrible things in your career), what's your take on it (nearly 24 hours later) ? Something has badly failed here hasn't it?

 

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, stripeyfox said:

Agreed. Not sure what function the cladding has anyway, apart from aesthetics. I've heard it referred to as rain cladding - which I presume means it has a secondary (or maybe primary) function from preventing water damage to the building over time?

 

Either way, something has gone badly wrong here (maybe the warm night with lots of windows open contributed to the "chimney" effect) and innocent people have perished in the most horrendously terrifying circumstances. 

 

 

 

 

It's frightening, I service fire alarms in buildings like this and I've seen how the residents can also be unresponsive to them, due to the amount of false alarms/drills/tests etc. I know this one didn't go off or wasn't working correct but even ones that do, don't get people out of their beds sometimes.

I hope some housing companies are reviewing their current set ups and maybe questioning how safe these places are. I expect I'll be pretty busy for a while now.

[stripeyfox]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

It's frightening, I service fire alarms in buildings like this and I've seen how the residents can also be unresponsive to them, due to the amount of false alarms/drills/tests etc. I know this one didn't go off or wasn't working correct but even ones that do, don't get people out of their beds sometimes.

I hope some housing companies are reviewing their current set ups and maybe questioning how safe these places are. I expect I'll be pretty busy for a while now.

I have been a few hotels where fire alarms have gone off and it's always a false alarm. One night, I was in a hotel in Newcastle (the UK's worst hotel probably) after a session. It was the early hours of the morning and the fire alarm went off. I was absolutely battered  and basically ignored it until there was a hammering at the door. When I open it there was a firefighter in full gear and axe who asked me in a not very polite manner to get the **** out. He was ****ing seething! It was only a small fire though, but he was not very happy with me!
 

[cambridgefox]

35 minutes ago, Strokes said:

These things should be tested for its purpose of use though. We wouldn't accept that excuse for anything else. The whole saga seems to be littered with basic health and safety errors.

You're right'i supply some foam that goes in in-wall speakers.You could ,and do put a blow torch to it,can't remember the exact time but has to withstand extreme heat for about 40 minutes without smouldering.wont ever ignite.its not cheap but my customer insists on it and we are forever giving specifications and certificates.Tested and tested again.

we don't make it,only supply,but it's when something as horrific as this occurs you realise why this is done and my customer doesn't do things on the cheap,although I'm sure he has regulations that he must adhere to.why are they not the same in this block of flats.

[RODNEY FERNIO]

Just watched ITN news and the fire seems to be gaining strength again ... surely people must get out of the immediate  area in case the whole building comes down .. as awful as this already is we don't want any more people getting hurt

[DJ Barry Hammond]

 

Newsnight had quite a long interview with George Clark (of amazing spaces on channel 4) who just happen to live close by and saw it all unfold.

 

Given his area of expertise his comments about the cladding carry that bit more weight if that was needed. 

 

What is even worse... this whole thing was predicted! 

[Guest ttfn]

I could see the smoke from 3 miles away this morning. Terrible situation, as others have said we can only hope as few people as possible have perished. Can't even begin to imagine what those people have been through. 

[katieakita]

Just horrible and your heart goes out to all those poor souls affected by the tragedy. Sadly the way social media rules our lives means we have to have all the answers now and somebody or something to blame. Hopefully lessons will be learned and a full investigation carried out to see exactly what went wrong to such a catastrophic extent. 

[The Guvnor]

10 hours ago, stripeyfox said:

Evening mate. As someone who clearly has a lot of experience in fire fighting (massive respect for that - you must have seen some terrible things in your career), what's your take on it (nearly 24 hours later) ? Something has badly failed here hasn't it?

 

 

As I said early yesterday morning and also reiterated by the London Fire Commissioner Dany Cotton a tower block fire of this magnitude is unprecedented in the UK.  Firstly It would be an extremely challenging if not almost impossible fire to manage and rescue residents due to the exponentially rapid fire growth. Looking at the media coverage and the various 'experts' interviews sadly it looks increasingly like the suggestion is the recent refurb cladding may have been largely responsible for the rapid fire growth but obviously that has not yet been substantiated.

The individual flats are designed to withstand fire ingress for a minimum of one hour from adjacent flats each side above and below but of course that is from any fires inside the building where this fires main development appears to have been externally.

 

Typically in these buildings you have a protected staircase, in this building it looks like one in the centre of the building this means a concrete stairwell within a concrete core with a Fire door on each landing corridor that has a self closer to prevent products of combustion, smoke & heat from entering that space, the idea being once you enter that stairwell you should be protected until you leave the exit which would be fresh air outside. The protected staircase in a conventional compartment fire in this type of building should offer protection for the Fire Fighters to direct their fire fighting and search and rescue procedures typically a 'Bridge head'  is set up 2 floors below the seat of fire in the staircase to do this, but as I have said' normal procedures' would very quickly have become virtually impossible.

Just to clarify the 'Stay put' policy is widely used in these types of buildings and 99.9% of the time would be relevant, but this only applies to residents in flats which are unaffected by the fire ie no smoke or fire is entering your flat. It maybe that many residents did try to make their way to the protected staircase to self evacuate but in a fire of this magnitude who knows what they may have faced if they opened their doors into the corridor I would suspect it would have been pitch black, intense unbearable heat and thick acrid smoke which is laden with Hydrogen Cyanide and Carbon Monoxide,where you literally cannot see your hand in front of your face, two or three breaths and that's your lot. 

This really would have been a nightmare for everyone involved, we can only hope measures are now taken Nationally to prevent a similar disaster.

 

[Beliall]

I didn't want to out this is phunny photos because even though it made me laugh, there is a serious undertone. Still wanted to share it though

[Strokes]

22 minutes ago, Beliall said:

I didn't want to out this is phunny photos because even though it made me laugh, there is a serious undertone. Still wanted to share it though

What's the betting they use it anyway? Wànkers

[stripeyfox]

23 minutes ago, Beliall said:

I didn't want to out this is phunny photos because even though it made me laugh, there is a serious undertone. Still wanted to share it though

As if he wasn't enough of a hero to start with.... brilliant. Well played sir!
 

[stripeyfox]

• Number of persons confirmed dead is now 17, but expected to continue to rise
• Prime Minister announces Public Inquiry into the fire

Edited 15 June 2017 by stripeyfox

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, stripeyfox said:

• Number of persons confirmed dead is now 17, but expected to continue to rise
• Prime Minister announces Public Inquiry into the fire

Shame she couldn't be bothered to offer her sympathies to those affected in person...

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606502/May-visits-Grenfell-Tower-vows-learn-lessons.html

[lifted*fox]

May showing again what a heartless **** she is. 

[stripeyfox]

37 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

Shame she couldn't be bothered to offer her sympathies to those affected in person...

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4606502/May-visits-Grenfell-Tower-vows-learn-lessons.html

Stopped reading at Daily Mail...

 

[Voll Blau]

1 hour ago, stripeyfox said:

Stopped reading at Daily Mail...

 

Ha. Thought I'd use that as the source so I couldn't be accused of linking to a paper biased against her.

[Strokes]

I'm no Theresa May fan but if I was involved in this tragedy I really doubt I would want her or Corbyn round for hugs and photos. Some of you are pathetic.

[stripeyfox]

She's damned if she does and damned if she doesn't.

 

 

[Innovindil]

****ing hell, she's said she was there for a briefing so she can get the investigation underway. You've already got celebrities down there crying with the locals for their brownie points, why on earth would you want May wasting time too. 

 

I've not been down there to offer my personal condolences either. How ****ing awful of me. 

 

If I was involved in a tragedy like this, you better believe I'd rather have answers than more "omg I'm so sorry for your loss #prayers#hugs" 

[stripeyfox]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

****ing hell, she's said she was there for a briefing so she can get the investigation underway. You've already got celebrities down there crying with the locals for their brownie points, why on earth would you want May wasting time too. 

 

I've not been down there to offer my personal condolences either. How ****ing awful of me. 

 

If I was involved in a tragedy like this, you better believe I'd rather have answers than more "omg I'm so sorry for your loss #prayers#hugs" 

Indeed. If I'd lost my house and family and just when I thought my day couldn't get any worse..... ****ing Adele shows up!

 

[stripeyfox]

36 minutes ago, daz*dsb said:

May showing again what a heartless **** she is. 

Yawn!
 

[Innovindil]

1 minute ago, stripeyfox said:

Indeed. If I'd lost my house and family and just when I thought my day couldn't get any worse..... ****ing Adele shows up!

 

Think I'd probably run back inside the burning building tbf.