Huge fire London building

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Well it does if you want to put meaningful action into place to help those effected. Forget tribal political alliances here, this is about leadership and she is showing none here.

 

But if we do turn this politcial, given her dire personal situation she almost had nothing to lose by going and meeting these people, spending time with them, hearing their stories and anger - and perhaps with that making them feel that someone in power is now listening to them and that action, albeit too late to avert this tradegy, will be taken promptly so that these people can grieve and rebuild their lives - and others in similar situations don't have to live in fear they may suffer the same fate.

 

Ultimately, she's taken the easy cop out option here, akin to what Bush did with New Orleans - and rightly deserves criticism. There is no defence!

Why does it matter when she does it? Do you think she will wave her magic wand and hey presto it will be alright? Do you know that any of them wanted to see her? It's nonsense, it's just an excuse. Nobody is buying it.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Why does it matter when she does it? Do you think she will wave her magic wand and hey presto it will be alright? Do you know that any of them wanted to see her? It's nonsense, it's just an excuse. Nobody is buying it.

 

Unbelievable!

 

Look back at your words and consider what your saying because there appears to be no regard for fellow humans in desperate need of help from people in power.

[Izzy]

50 minutes ago, ScouseFox said:

big fan of having a prime minister who hates people and being in the public eye. she's the prime minister ffs. 

She's a politician not a pop star ffs.

 

Has she ever stated she hates people? - no.

 

Has she ever stated she hates being in the public eye? - no

 

Does she struggle interacting with the common man on the street? - probably, yes. She's not an extroverted 'touch/feely' type of person as stated earlier.

 

Personally I don't give a flying fvck if she's not the most popular, empathetic, engaging PM we've ever had.

 

Her job is to run our country and I still maintain she's the best of a bad bunch to do it.

 

[lgfualol]

This story just keeps getting worse. 

[Strokes]

4 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

Unbelievable!

 

Look back at your words and consider what your saying because there appears to be no regard for fellow humans in desperate need of help from people in power.

What's unbelievable is people using this event, when it's not even 48hrs gone and not even everyone accounted for, using faux outrage that a politician hasn't met them yet! We get it, you don't like the tories. Tell me something I didn't know.

[Buce]

27 minutes ago, Izzy Muzzett said:

 

Which part of what I said is BS?

 

 

Every word. 

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

Every word. 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

Just now, Strokes said:

What's unbelievable is people using this event, when it's not even 48hrs gone and not even everyone accounted for, using faux outrage that a politician hasn't met them yet! We get it, you don't like the tories. Tell me something I didn't know.

 

I would have criticised any leader of any political party for the lack of compassion and meaningful action shown here. 

 

So it might have been an uncomfortable 20-30 minutes for her, maybe an hour if she was that inclined - but what's that compared to what these people have gone through? Given this is major incident, do they not deserve the leader of their country to come to them promptly and reassure them that they will get assistance? Is that asking too much? 

 

And the anger is there, because it feels this was all so preventable - and that 'political' decisions may have contributed. It's not faux outrage - it's just and understandable outrage and a leader shirking responsibility only adds to that sense of outrage.

 

Ultimately May as our elected leader represents all of us... so whilst she's in this position, I'm expecting her to show that. In this instance, I'm sure the vast majority would agree put in this horrible situation we would appreciate (maybe not at the time, but later down the line) a prompt visit from the Prime Minister AND a number of follow up visits.  

 

Sometimes in forum dates there are grey areas... but in this instance, there isn't, put simply your views are misguided and wrong and you'd do yourself a favour by not picking at the thread any further.

 

 

 

[Guesty]

Met Police Commander Stuart Cundy says, "the Grenfell Tower search may take months & says he hopes death toll will not be in "triple figures"

 

When you start seeing them saying things like that, I fear they're starting to realise how many people are missing.

 

 

[TheMightySystem]

Edit: Decided against going political, just feel sorry for the man and those like him that have been through a traumatic experience. Hope the survivors are given the support they need .

 

Edited 15 June 2017 by TheMightySystem

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

I would have criticised any leader of any political party for the lack of compassion and meaningful action shown here. 

 

So it might have been an uncomfortable 20-30 minutes for her, maybe an hour if she was that inclined - but what's that compared to what these people have gone through? Given this is major incident, do they not deserve the leader of their country to come to them promptly and reassure them that they will get assistance? Is that asking too much? 

 

And the anger is there, because it feels this was all so preventable - and that 'political' decisions may have contributed. It's not faux outrage - it's just and understandable outrage and a leader shirking responsibility only adds to that sense of outrage.

 

Ultimately May as our elected leader represents all of us... so whilst she's in this position, I'm expecting her to show that. In this instance, I'm sure the vast majority would agree put in this horrible situation we would appreciate (maybe not at the time, but later down the line) a prompt visit from the Prime Minister AND a number of follow up visits.  

 

Sometimes in forum dates there are grey areas... but in this instance, there isn't, put simply your views are misguided and wrong and you'd do yourself a favour by not picking at the thread any further.

 

 

 

This wouldn't even be a thing if it wasn't a Tory, we all know it.

 

Im not talking about blame, the faux outrage is over her not sticking around for survivor selphys ffs, get a grip. If there is blame to dish out then fill your boots, anyone culpable should be dealt with in the firmest way possible. 

What assurances could she give that Sadiq Kahn hasn't already? I think you are being ridiculous, along with many others. I don't believe for one moment any of you really think it's outrageous.

[Mark 'expert' Lawrenson]

Always reactive instead of proactive, another enquiry after a terrible incident it's pathetic.

[Innovindil]

24 minutes ago, DJ Barry Hammond said:

 

I would have criticised any leader of any political party for the lack of compassion and meaningful action shown here. 

 

So it might have been an uncomfortable 20-30 minutes for her, maybe an hour if she was that inclined - but what's that compared to what these people have gone through? Given this is major incident, do they not deserve the leader of their country to come to them promptly and reassure them that they will get assistance? Is that asking too much? 

 

And the anger is there, because it feels this was all so preventable - and that 'political' decisions may have contributed. It's not faux outrage - it's just and understandable outrage and a leader shirking responsibility only adds to that sense of outrage.

 

Ultimately May as our elected leader represents all of us... so whilst she's in this position, I'm expecting her to show that. In this instance, I'm sure the vast majority would agree put in this horrible situation we would appreciate (maybe not at the time, but later down the line) a prompt visit from the Prime Minister AND a number of follow up visits.  

 

Sometimes in forum dates there are grey areas... but in this instance, there isn't, put simply your views are misguided and wrong and you'd do yourself a favour by not picking at the thread any further.

 

 

 

Have a sodding word. Are you really expecting the PM to just travel up and down the UK going from pillar to post spending time with everyone who is suffering? 

 

Does she have to go sing a lullaby to every sick kid? Shake hands with every cancer patient? Go grieve with the parents of every teenager that gets stabbed to death in London? 

 

Who are you to say that this instance deserves a weepy PM and others don't. 

 

If she spent her time doing this nonsense she would have little time for anything else. What an absolute load of oversensitive tosh. 

[sphericalfox]

History repeating itself?

 

[Finnegan]

Anyone on any side of the political spectrum using this for petty point scoring is a ****ing cvnt tbh.

 

 

[DJ Barry Hammond]

12 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Anyone on any side of the political spectrum using this for petty point scoring is a ****ing cvnt tbh.

 

 

 

The problem with this view is that there are glaring class and political points to make, given the previous inquiry and recommendations made after the Lakanal House fire that have received little action, the clear evidence of the residents own previous concerns made to both the tenant association and council and to lesser an extent but still pertinent, the period of austerity the countries gone through which feels like it's been conducted by simplistic bean counters looking to cut across the board, rather than looking in more depth of how to get value out of each pound the public sector spends.

 

These are not the only reasons why this is a very political edged tradedgy. One of the primacies of government is to keep its citizens safe and the early evidence suggests there are failings and that this was entirely preventable. 

 

That is why there is so much anger, one of the natural emotions of grief for those directly affected and I think the rest of us feeling that way have just taken in all the horrible pictures and footage in disbelief and can feel and resonate with these people's anger. 

 

Now personally, I'm not suggesting anyone should vote one way or another because of this instance... but I'm certainly suggesting our elected officials and those in positions of control should have done better here.

 

You could say its always easier to be wise after the incident and point to the fact that the inquiry hasn't even started yet... but in mind there is enough evidence here to already be disgusted.

[sphericalfox]

37 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

Anyone on any side of the political spectrum using this for petty point scoring is a ****ing cvnt tbh.

 

 

From someone who deals with social housing (or has done), and knows full well how shite it is, to say this is isn't a political conversation is a little odd. Or maybe you aren't, but so this doesn't drift into pettytown, what's the rules so we don't break Finner's laws of engagement.

[DJ Barry Hammond]

1 hour ago, Innovindil said:

Have a sodding word. Are you really expecting the PM to just travel up and down the UK going from pillar to post spending time with everyone who is suffering? 

 

Does she have to go sing a lullaby to every sick kid? Shake hands with every cancer patient? Go grieve with the parents of every teenager that gets stabbed to death in London? 

 

Who are you to say that this instance deserves a weepy PM and others don't. 

 

If she spent her time doing this nonsense she would have little time for anything else. What an absolute load of oversensitive tosh. 

 

This is a major incident.

 

There are precedents for this kind of thing. John Major for example went to Dunblane with Tony Blair (then opposition leader) and met with the school children/teachers/families. Thatcher went to meet Kings Cross Fire victims. David Cameron met Cumbria flood victims.

 

Additionally, the point in her meeting these people is that they need the states help more than most right now... and who better to help co-ordinate this than the elected leader of the country?

 

So it's not tosh is it? 

[Finnegan]

16 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

but so this doesn't drift into pettytown

 

59 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

History repeating itself?

 

 

Bit late.

[sphericalfox]

3 minutes ago, Finnegan said:

 

 

Bit late.

So pointing out the similarities of one PM and our current PM who have following a disaster shunned speaking to the victims of said disaster is petty...? Interesting. I think it's fairly relevant to comment on May's capacity to show any degree of humanity to these poor people. Had it been Tony Blair, I'd have posted a picture of him. It wasn't a Tory bash. History does repeat itself. Bit like you wading through a thread on your high horse telling people how to post or not to post. 

[stripeyfox]

tis a shame we've decended into point scoring over which politician is the most empathetic. The PM can't really win in this situation. She clearly doesn't have that "human" touch that Corbyn or Princess Di can bring to these situations and added to that people are angry, and rightly so. She would just be a lightning rod for this anger. Corbyn can go in there as "the good guy", May doesn't have that luxury. 

 

But it doesn't matter anyway, talk of triple figures dead is absolutely horrendous. What is important, and where the PM can make a difference is that we discover what has caused such catastrophic loss of life, and implement measures to prevent it happenning again.

 

My heart breaks for the people affected. Hearing how a five year old child slipped away from his mother in the smoke and hasn't been seen since, or entire families missing is crushingly sad. 

 

[Strokes]

16 minutes ago, sphericalfox said:

So pointing out the similarities of one PM and our current PM who have following a disaster shunned speaking to the victims of said disaster is petty...? Interesting. I think it's fairly relevant to comment on May's capacity to show any degree of humanity to these poor people. Had it been Tony Blair, I'd have posted a picture of him. It wasn't a Tory bash. History does repeat itself. Bit like you wading through a thread on your high horse telling people how to post or not to post. 

Perhaps if you didn't behave like a cùnt, people would refrain from pointing it out.

[sphericalfox]

Just now, Strokes said:

Perhaps if you didn't behave like a cùnt, people would refrain from pointing it out.

Lols says you.

 

I'll post what I like without being told by self-righteous Finners what I should think or do thanks. 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, sphericalfox said:

History repeating itself?

 

You really are a revolting piece of excrement aren't you? 

 

A vile person.

[Guesty]

I think there's a difference from having a political discussion and silly political point scoring. Both of which you can see in this thread. 

 

You can see from some of the news that experts knew this cladding was dangerous and it's been going on buildings for years and years. There have been fires on other buildings. Seems like it was only a matter of time, but the people who mattered were burying their head in the sand or never expected loss of life on this scale.

 

No doubt as it goes on we'll find mass incompetence everywhere. I know from working in local government the amount of incompetence in management is staggering in some places. People are promoted on time served or who they know and not ability. Those people then only promote people like them. Any subordinate who disagrees is forced out or leaves meaning incompetence spreads. All the best staff leave. This builds up until it reaches a catastrophic breaking point. 

 

I just hope this is an independent investigation with no political interference at all. As i imagine there will be buildings all over the country that have been refurbished in Labour and Tory constituents and there's blame on both sides. Local government tend to give all this work to the same companies. Just look in Scotland when all the exterior walls started falling down in high wind at the new schools and all new buildings had to be closed down as they were all structurally unsafe. It's riddled with bureaucratic bullshit.

 

For example, I worked in a school that was refurbished years ago and the contract was with a big company; everything that went in the school had to come through deals with this company. The year prior the school had spent thousands on new computers. All of these had to be chucked in a special skip (weren't allowed to be sold or donated) and the school had to buy new computers at twice the value and a worse spec. There were so many other problems because stuff was done on the cheap or not thought through properly. 

 

The local governments/organisations involved in this aren't doing interviews. I bet they're all in a room having a mass arse-covering, blame-game meeting. Along with a lot of other people. Because they've just ignored valid concerns.

 

It seems though unofficially, some police think there could be around 150 dead. There needs to be proper accountability no matter how many people it affects - not mass pay-offs when people just say sorry because they were incompetent.