fuchsntf Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 1 hour ago, surrifox said: Absolutely shameful that Britain doesn't do the right thing and offer this family safe passage and asylum . We now allow a bunch of nutters to dictate to us . If Pakistan cannot guarantee the safety of our embassy and consular staff we should close it and withdraw from the country . All the useless political 300yr rhetoric that molded the commonwealth,and now modern colonial attitudes,,that Britain should be leading the way in appropriating some straightforward agreement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 9 minutes ago, fuchsntf said: The politicians and Panels,are now putting it out,how difficult the process has been. Sorry hard yes,not difficult..the electorate wanted out,so negotiations should of been at a minimum.. #How much will we still owe... #No customs union. #What have you had the EU got to offer. #Irish border question. #Movement of goods, through Europe...in / out of Britain. #Farm goods #Fishing rights #Long and short time immigrant ruling,mainly of a question 1st on British approach,EU would just recipricate,or individual country would act According how Britain treat their citizens.t # British passport holders agreements, if any!!! #Security handshaking.. #Military zones #British Airlines and shipping companies in Europe. that seemed the mainstay of Brexit needs,from within the Brexit electorate...So what was difficult to negotiate!! For Brexit. I actually believe the politicians who chose the Brexit side,were not forefront Brexiteers,including the Johnson Bros and even Grove. They just wanted a platform... I am an expat,my stance was remain..Because from my angle,I saw the difficulties that some would still find ignorantly suprising, Because of the lack of homework done by the electorate and their poor chosen/elected politicians.And feared what actually did happen, the downright lies from both sides,for their own benifits,and not Britains!! No cross-party involvement ruined it for me!! Yes it was going to be diificult..but the British government has not listened at all to the UK electorates concerns,they have just took their own options.Plus I still see organised,controlled immigration will not be on the table, not complete Sovereignty,if any!!! No choice on Movement in goods or Business...!!! Not just Europe but WWide!! Plus no one in their lifetime,will see any improvement on desperately needed infrastructure or in the NHS....Not what they tell you they have Spent,but what people see,and can be extra newly proud of.!!! It's seems the UK spun the wheel,and lost!!! No I am not happy,it's the country of my Birth,It hurts......but now honestly I have my own life, my own worries,and presently ( maybe not in the future) I am happy with what I get from within the society I live in.. The country was in my youth still rebuilding....that stopped,I welcomed immigration,then to no blame to our new citizens,I seen home politicians and businesses abusing and misusing it.To keep wages low...Failing to invest in THE nursing and doctors,the engineering industries. Roads and rail...Money was in the UK,but it never,never filtered down or through!!! Then many seemed it the right modus,to be all Dell-boys. Office work though has important got bogged down in admin,like hospitals OTT,and Citizens general council needs. I don't think there wasn't one brit friend or relation,that wasnt upset by some business/trade cowboy...Pride of oneself and what one offered seemed to of Left the British street,and Govt-offices. Though fair dues,when I have business with the Passport,and National-insurance office >pensions < they were and still are excellent concientious helpfully workers... I don't know!!but I still wonder if the British political hierchy,still has the old British gentry/land owner approach!!! Course they do, the common man was only given a vote to avoid a russian revolution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kopfkino Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 39 minutes ago, Charl91 said: It was said all along that we wouldn't get this amazing deal that was promised. It was said all along that the EU would barely budge; as was foretold, this has proven to be the case. Rather than accept this, it's the EU's/The Governments/Someone elses fault, and Brexiteers would definitely be able to negotiate another, better deal,while simultaneously being unable to say what this new deal would entail. You say that but the CU backstop that has them all overcome with faux outrage and their supporters blindly following was essentially a UK win which required a not insignificant EU budge. The possibility of extending the transition period that I'm sure would have them overcome with faux outrage if they'd bothered to read the WA was similar. Though of course they couldn't negotiate anything else, and tbh Im yet to understand why they'd want to. They have no idea what to do about the backstop, the WA is the WA and there's still so much left to sort in the future relationship agreement that I can't for the life of me understand why they're wasting energy on it. Particularly as they are set up to get an extensive trade agreement in future trade negotiations where the UK will have a stronger hand than it does now, ironically as a result of the backstop. And they can't even organise 48 letters of no confidence. Just today it was 48+a dozen, then it was about 48, now it's not 48, so how the **** they could negotiate international treaties who knows. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post stripeyfox Posted 16 November 2018 Popular Post Share Posted 16 November 2018 The whole thing is a farce. Cameron gambled on getting a Remain vote but it backfired. Fvck knows why they ever gave us the choice in the first place. We elect governments to make decisions like this for us. This is what happens when you let the idiots (on both sides) make decisions! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Kopfkino said: You say that but the CU backstop that has them all overcome with faux outrage and their supporters blindly following was essentially a UK win which required a not insignificant EU budge. The possibility of extending the transition period that I'm sure would have them overcome with faux outrage if they'd bothered to read the WA was similar. Though of course they couldn't negotiate anything else, and tbh Im yet to understand why they'd want to. They have no idea what to do about the backstop, the WA is the WA and there's still so much left to sort in the future relationship agreement that I can't for the life of me understand why they're wasting energy on it. Particularly as they are set up to get an extensive trade agreement in future trade negotiations where the UK will have a stronger hand than it does now, ironically as a result of the backstop. And they can't even organise 48 letters of no confidence. Just today it was 48+a dozen, then it was about 48, now it's not 48, so how the **** they could negotiate international treaties who knows. Leave is ..leave,even has a remainer..what was to negotiate,what was to deal... It seems there has been some deliberate holding off,and pontificating,onwards and outwards,and along all the cocky reverberating scales!! When Britain needed 3-4 people to stand up,the closet was empty..!! Edited 16 November 2018 by fuchsntf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yorkie1999 Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 1 minute ago, fuchsntf said: Leave is ..leave,even has a remainer..what was to negotiate,what was to deal... It seems there has been some deliberate holding off,and pontificating,onwards and outwards,and along all the cocky reverberating scales!! When Britain needed 3-4 people to stand up,the closest was empty..!! Which is why the electorate needs to show their disaproval of the current political regime by not voting for anyone. Time to start again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuchsntf Posted 16 November 2018 Share Posted 16 November 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, yorkie1999 said: Which is why the electorate needs to show their disaproval of the current political regime by not voting for anyone. Time to start again. UK went to the referendum dum dum...The honourable horribles didn't honour their given and obvious electorate mandate!!!I So why now go to the voting booth...There must be a change and recognition,old UK is dead,it needs to up its knowledge and realise the modern voters don't need,don't want the political clans,UK has to move on,the man on the street,whether in English terms, Wclass..Mclass..Higher echelons, are just a different animal,and deserve more political and social respect. Majority has seen how our Northern and Southern European neighbours lives... Along way from perfect,but more working platforms,and infrastructure seen on the streets...!! Edited 16 November 2018 by fuchsntf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 11 hours ago, Kopfkino said: And they can't even organise 48 letters of no confidence. Just today it was 48+a dozen, then it was about 48, now it's not 48, so how the **** they could negotiate international treaties who knows. This has been a complete shambles and they have clearly misjudged it bigtime - I don't really see how the hard-Brexiteers can really vote against this now - they either back the PM if they can't oust her and they'll do potentially irreconcilable damage to the party. How trustworthy is Graham Brady? Clearly nothing being leaked by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Loyal Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: This has been a complete shambles and they have clearly misjudged it bigtime - I don't really see how the hard-Brexiteers can really vote against this now - they either back the PM if they can't oust her and they'll do potentially irreconcilable damage to the party. How trustworthy is Graham Brady? Clearly nothing being leaked by him. We're ****e essentially Matt. This deal is genuinely worse than remaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 7 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said: We're ****e essentially Matt. This deal is genuinely worse than remaining. Can you explain why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leicester_Loyal Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 Just now, Dr The Singh said: Can you explain why? It's long to go into. But essentially, we're paying £39 billion for the EU to have the final say on stuff, for them to continue fishing in our waters and we will require them to give us permission if we want to leave the EU in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Guvnor Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, MattP said: This has been a complete shambles and they have clearly misjudged it bigtime - I don't really see how the hard-Brexiteers can really vote against this now - they either back the PM if they can't oust her and they'll do potentially irreconcilable damage to the party. How trustworthy is Graham Brady? Clearly nothing being leaked by him. In fairness Matt, Steve Baker sort of explained the current situation, you can phone like minded colleagues who tell you they have written their letters but have decided not to submit them, so it is a bit of a guessing game atm. There are rumour's (I know) that there will be sufficient letters submitted to Graham Brady on Monday to trigger the vote of NC. It then goes to a secret ballot that's when it will become interesting. Edited 17 November 2018 by The Guvnor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m4DD0gg Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 18 hours ago, surrifox said: Absolutely shameful that Britain doesn't do the right thing and offer this family safe passage and asylum . We now allow a bunch of nutters to dictate to us . If Pakistan cannot guarantee the safety of our embassy and consular staff we should close it and withdraw from the country . Why is it shameful? The problem is pakistan society and their barbaric, inhumane and ridiculous persecution of women. They need to resolve those horrendous ideologies not us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 25 minutes ago, m4DD0gg said: Why is it shameful? The problem is pakistan society and their barbaric, inhumane and ridiculous persecution of women. They need to resolve those horrendous ideologies not us. It’s nothing to do with her gender at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 Well done Theresa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr The Singh Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 8 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said: It's long But essentially, we're paying £39 billion for the EU to have the final say on stuff, for them to continue fishing in our waters and we will require them to give us permission if we want to leave the EU in the future. So is my penis, but that's no reason to explain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 1 hour ago, MattP said: Well done Theresa. Not really Mays fault tbh, it was always going to damage whatever party was in charge because the vision the leave campaign sold was never achievable. The actual terms of the deal are near irrelevant in the criticism of it, it was never going to satisfy the Eurosceptics. Only brexit strategy that might have worked for her was to throw last year's election and leave Corbyn holding the time bomb. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buce Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 5 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Not really Mays fault tbh, it was always going to damage whatever party was in charge because the vision the leave campaign sold was never achievable. The actual terms of the deal are near irrelevant in the criticism of it, it was never going to satisfy the Eurosceptics. Only brexit strategy that might have worked for her was to throw last year's election and leave Corbyn holding the time bomb. 3 She tried her best but even managed to fvck that up. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 30 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Not really Mays fault tbh, it was always going to damage whatever party was in charge because the vision the leave campaign sold was never achievable. The actual terms of the deal are near irrelevant in the criticism of it, it was never going to satisfy the Eurosceptics. Only brexit strategy that might have worked for her was to throw last year's election and leave Corbyn holding the time bomb. Donald Tusk openly said a Canada+ deal (or Norway) was on the table - you might not agree or want that but it would have studied the Eurosceptics. This deal is her and Robbins choice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Doctor Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 57 minutes ago, MattP said: Donald Tusk openly said a Canada+ deal (or Norway) was on the table - you might not agree or want that but it would have studied the Eurosceptics. This deal is her and Robbins choice. Would it? The Norway option basically means paying in, taking regulations but without any voice in the European parliament, for most who whined about taking diktats from Brussels that would be even less acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest MattP Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 57 minutes ago, The Doctor said: Would it? The Norway option basically means paying in, taking regulations but without any voice in the European parliament, for most who whined about taking diktats from Brussels that would be even less acceptable. Canada I mean would satisfy Brexiteers, I referenced Norway as Tusk said both. That obviously wouldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simFox Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 Don't know if this haa been posted, but pretty much sums it up for me.. https://www.spectator.co.uk/2018/10/tony-abbott-how-to-save-brexit/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoxNotFox Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 Abbott makes it all sound straight forward and simple. I wonder why no one else has thought of it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strokes Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 11 minutes ago, FoxNotFox said: Abbott makes it all sound straight forward and simple. I wonder why no one else has thought of it? Because that doesn’t get them what they want......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wymsey Posted 17 November 2018 Share Posted 17 November 2018 (edited) I didn't agree with Tony Blairs' stance for people to have more "Education, education, education", but this Brexit fiasco makes me think the leavers should've analysed the pros and cons of their argument before actually voting without just doing it on gut instinct.. Edited 17 November 2018 by Wymeswold fox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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