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bovril

Unpopular Opinions You Hold

By bovril, in General Chat

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foxoffderby

foxoffderby

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, TiffToff88 said:

I actually agree with this. The American healthcare system is messed up in so many ways BUT when they're run as businesses, they want your business. They want you to come to their hos[ital rather than a rival one, so they strive to provide the highest quality healthcare they possibly can.

 

I'm not saying we should model our healthcare exactly in the same way as the yanks, but in many ways it makes a hell of a lot of sense

I read somewhere Americans are charged around $500 to $700 to call out an ambulance. The number of times I've watched documentaries in this country when people are call out emergency services for trivial things is shocking. Some members of the public have cottoned on this and often say 'I'm having chest pains' and the people responding have no choice but to bump them up regardless. Our NHS system started out with good intentions but like the benefits system is now ****ed by people milking it for their own needs

Edited by foxoffderby
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Voll Blau

Voll Blau

Posted
Posted
36 minutes ago, foxoffderby said:

I read somewhere Americans are charged around $500 to $700 to call out an ambulance. The number of times I've watched documentaries in this country when people are call out emergency services for trivial things is shocking. Some members of the public have cottoned on this and often say 'I'm having chest pains' and the people responding have no choice but to bump them up regardless. Our NHS system started out with good intentions but like the benefits system is now ****ed by people milking it for their own needs

What does that even mean? "People milking it for their own needs".

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foxoffderby

foxoffderby

Posted
Posted
56 minutes ago, Voll Blau said:

What does that even mean? "People milking it for their own needs".

My wife works for the NHS and tells me about  the number of people who she has to help who have never contributed to the system or are using it without the right to be using it. I'm afraid it does go on in very large scale. 

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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

In as much as we pay to live in civilised society... Seems pretty obvious I was talking about having to find money to pay for your own healthcare though :dunno:

Most other countries have a health insurance scheme, it doesn't have to be run by the govt.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted

I guess this comes down to whether you believe that everyone should be covered in terms of health care in return for a higher than desirable amount of financial wastage, or you think that the service should be more efficient, but with the possibility of people slipping between the cracks.

 

Pretty similar to the arguments about legal stuff re; guilty people going free rather than innocent people being convicted, and there is possibly some ideological overlap there.

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bovril

bovril

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, foxoffderby said:

My wife works for the NHS and tells me about  the number of people who she has to help who have never contributed to the system or are using it without the right to be using it. I'm afraid it does go on in very large scale. 

Just out of interest how do you know or quantify how much someone has "contributed to the system" and to what extent is it relevant to the healthcare they receive?

Edited by bovril
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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

I guess this comes down to whether you believe that everyone should be covered in terms of health care in return for a higher than desirable amount of financial wastage, or you think that the service should be more efficient, but with the possibility of people slipping between the cracks.

 

Pretty similar to the arguments about legal stuff re; guilty people going free rather than innocent people being convicted, and there is possibly some ideological overlap there.

For me it should be about firstly, best outcomes and after that best use of taxpayers money. Whether it's govt or private doesn't really matter but allowing private sources to provide services where they offer better value for money is a no brainer for me.

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The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Strokes said:

We still do though and for other peoples.

Don't know about you but I have never once had to go fishing through my wallet and cutting my life to the bare bones to pay for healthcare for myself or any of my family... Not something most living in uncivilised countries like the US can say.

 

17 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Most other countries have a health insurance scheme, it doesn't have to be run by the govt.

Eh, I'd ask what the point of a government is if it's not acting to ensure the wellbeing of it's citizens tbh.

Edited by The Doctor
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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
Just now, The Doctor said:

Don't know about you but I have never once had to go fishing through my wallet and cutting my life to the bare bones to pay for healthcare for myself or any of my family...

 

Eh, I'd ask what the point of a government is if it's not acting to ensure the wellbeing of it's citizens tbh.

Don't other countries have better outcomes for their patients with out the NHS? 

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The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
10 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Don't other countries have better outcomes for their patients with out the NHS? 

If you're judging by deaths normalised for population then some do, but the NHS isn't far behind them (mostly on cancer care tbh), and in terms of the entire service, it's pretty damn good: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

 

Socialised healthcare is probably this countries greatest achievement, and is recognised as such throughout the world - and yet some still want to bash it. Baffling.

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The Doctor

The Doctor

Posted
Posted
7 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Thats only true if the point of the day is to slate the sitting government, not if we are talking about change. :nono:

 

One and the same to an extent - the change that needs to be made is maybe not having a complete tosspot in charge of it starting a war with junior doctors and doing his best to undermine the service.

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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

If you're judging by deaths normalised for population then some do, but the NHS isn't far behind them (mostly on cancer care tbh), and in terms of the entire service, it's pretty damn good: http://www.commonwealthfund.org/interactives/2017/july/mirror-mirror/

 

Socialised healthcare is probably this countries greatest achievement, and is recognised as such throughout the world - and yet some still want to bash it. Baffling.

Nobody seems to want to copy us though?

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
25 minutes ago, Webbo said:

For me it should be about firstly, best outcomes and after that best use of taxpayers money. Whether it's govt or private doesn't really matter but allowing private sources to provide services where they offer better value for money is a no brainer for me.

As far as I'm concerned the difference in outcomes between the UK and other leading nations is so negligible (the Docs stats seem to hear this out) that the bigger factor becomes ensuring accessibility to those outcomes isn't financially crippling to whoever pays for then and so are accessible in the strictest sense. And on that I would say the UK does better than the majority of nations.

 

Like I said, when someone in the UK goes bankrupt due to medical costs (either theirs or someone else's), let me know.

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Webbo

Webbo

Posted
Posted
Just now, leicsmac said:

As far as I'm concerned the difference in outcomes between the UK and other leading nations is so negligible (the Docs stats seem to hear this out) that the bigger factor becomes ensuring accessibility to those outcomes isn't financially crippling to whoever pays for then and so are accessible in the strictest sense. And on that I would say the UK does better than the majority of nations.

 

Like I said, when someone in the UK goes bankrupt due to medical costs (either theirs or someone else's), let me know.

I think most people would rather go bankrupt than go dead.

 

I'm not anti NHS, I've used it all my life. It's just that it's not a religion to me. I don't care if somebody makes money providing a service that's necessary.

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Strokes

Strokes

Posted
Posted
21 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

One and the same to an extent - the change that needs to be made is maybe not having a complete tosspot in charge of it starting a war with junior doctors and doing his best to undermine the service.

Jeremy Hunts doing a cracking job imo.

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leicsmac

leicsmac

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

I think most people would rather go bankrupt than go dead.

 

I'm not anti NHS, I've used it all my life. It's just that it's not a religion to me. I don't care if somebody makes money providing a service that's necessary.

Fair enough. Though you might make the argument that in a truly civilised country you really shouldn't have to choose between the two.

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