Unpopular Opinions You Hold

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Except that shouldn't be a choice they ever have to make...

But you are making that choice. You're saying that the NHS is nearly as good, so therefore there are better health care systems. 

[Webbo]

2 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Record numbers leaving the profession suggests otherwise. 

Pretty sure he said at the weekend that we have 11,000 more nurses than in 2010.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Record numbers leaving the profession suggests otherwise. 

I thought that was brexits fault.

[leicsmac]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

But you are making that choice. You're saying that the NHS is nearly as good, so therefore there are better health care systems. 

Far be it from me to speak for him, but I think Al was advocating for a system where that choice never has to come up, nothing more.

[Webbo]

Just now, leicsmac said:

Far be it from me to speak for him, but I think Al was advocating for a system where that choice never has to come up, nothing more.

You're choosing a system that's not as good as others. Saying you don't have to worry about the cost is no good when you're dead.

[Chico1958]

On 27/09/2017 at 13:08, filbertway said:

One of mine is that despite Ian Watkins being an awful human - I still enjoy listening to lostprophets.

Awful................. is an understatement, but I do understand the music statement.

 

 

[The Doctor]

5 minutes ago, Webbo said:

But you are making that choice. . 

No, we're not. I don't know of anyone in this country that has ever had to choose between going bankrupt to fund essential medical care or dying.

 

4 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Pretty sure he said at the weekend that we have 11,000 more nurses than in 2010.

Pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at hand - facts are record numbers are leaving ://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/nhs-nursing-numbers-fall-as-more-leave-the-profession-than-join-8t386jb5w

[leicsmac]

Just now, Webbo said:

You're choosing a system that's not as good as others. Saying you don't have to worry about the cost is no good when you're dead.

The difference in outcomes is, again, negligible...so with that in mind the choice is not one that had to be offered or made in the UK.

 

However I would posit that this is also mostly also the case in most European and East Asian nations that offer combinations of private and single payer systems too. There is only one big exception in the OECD...which is the obvious one.

 

 

[Webbo]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

No, we're not. I don't know of anyone in this country that has ever had to choose between going bankrupt to fund essential medical care or dying.

 

 

There are cases every year where people raise money, re mortgage their house etc so they/their children can get treatment abroad that isn't provided here.

[Izzy]

2 hours ago, foxoffderby said:

I read somewhere Americans are charged around $500 to $700 to call out an ambulance. The number of times I've watched documentaries in this country when people are call out emergency services for trivial things is shocking. Some members of the public have cottoned on this and often say 'I'm having chest pains' and the people responding have no choice but to bump them up regardless. Our NHS system started out with good intentions but like the benefits system is now ****ed by people milking it for their own needs

I read recently that there were 12 million GP appointments missed last year, costing the NHS over £168m 

 

And 6 million hospital outpatient appointments were also missed, costing over £225m

 

The problem with the NHS being free, is that some people don't put a value on it. 

 

If people had to pay for missed appointments then they might think twice. There's no consequence which is why some people take the piss.

[The Doctor]

1 minute ago, Webbo said:

There are cases every year where people raise money, re mortgage their house etc so they/their children can get treatment abroad that isn't provided here.

The treatments not provided are typically incredibly experimental ones not yet proven to work (that the right would probably no doubt whine about if the NHS offered).

[Webbo]

Just now, The Doctor said:

The treatments not provided are typically incredibly experimental ones not yet proven to work (that the right would probably no doubt whine about if the NHS offered).

Why? 

 

BTW that proton therapy seemed quite common across the rest of the world before we got it.

[The Doctor]

3 minutes ago, Webbo said:

Why? 

 

BTW that proton therapy seemed quite common across the rest of the world before we got it.

Because they'd see it as wasting taxpayer money on stuff that 'might work'. 

 

Interesting you'd pick that, given the first hospital based proton therapy centre was opened in the UK...

[Webbo]

14 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Because they'd see it as wasting taxpayer money on stuff that 'might work'. 

 

Interesting you'd pick that, given the first hospital based proton therapy centre was opened in the UK...

The first bit you're just making up. The second bit I said that because I remember a case a few years ago where a family were stopped from travelling to The Czech Republic (I think) to get proton therapy treatment for their child that they couldn't get here.

[The Doctor]

26 minutes ago, Webbo said:

The first bit you're just making up. The second bit I said that because I remember a case a few years ago where a family were stopped from travelling to The Czech Republic (I think) to get proton therapy treatment for their child that they couldn't get here.

You say making up, I would say an educated guess.

 

as for proton therapy - the difference is the number of clinics offering it, not least because until a couple of years ago at least there wasn't anything showing it lead to better patient outcomes than the established treatments. We therefore had just the basics for it (and the resultant waiting list), while the continent was more available for experimental and unproven treatments.

[Wymsey]

Leicester city centre isn't that bad, compared to other similar cities such as Derby and Birmingham.

Edited 2 November 2017 by Wymeswold fox

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

3 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Leicester city centre isn't that too bad, compared to other similar cities such as Derby and Birmingham.

Quite right, it's got good and bad bits, but just balances out to being an alright city centre. Derby is disgusting, as is most of (what I've seen of) Birmingham

[ozleicester]

The "umpopular opinions" thread has just become a troll thread

[foxoffderby]

4 hours ago, bovril said:

Just out of interest how do you know or quantify how much someone has "contributed to the system" and to what extent is it relevant to the healthcare they receive?

paying tax contributes to the system. If it was up to me I would like to pay less tax out of my salary every year and use the NHS on a pay as you go basis. Why should somebody who works all there life may only go to the doctors twice a year have to pay the same as somebody who gets drunk every weekend takes drugs smokes and gets into fights and ends up in A&E 10 times in a year? Probably a extreme example but do get my point?

[The Doctor]

5 hours ago, foxoffderby said:

paying tax contributes to the system. If it was up to me I would like to pay less tax out of my salary every year and use the NHS on a pay as you go basis. Why should somebody who works all there life may only go to the doctors twice a year have to pay the same as somebody who gets drunk every weekend takes drugs smokes and gets into fights and ends up in A&E 10 times in a year? Probably a extreme example but do get my point?

I get what you mean, but I can't understand anyone who thinks that way. I very rarely go to the doctors (haven't been since a testicular cancer scare - turned out to be a benign cyst - in April last year), but I'm happy to take home a few quid less each month if it means that a family on the breadline aren't having to choose between eating this week or seeing their doctor, frankly the fact people don't have to make that choice here should be a point of national pride.

[Captain...]

6 hours ago, foxoffderby said:

paying tax contributes to the system. If it was up to me I would like to pay less tax out of my salary every year and use the NHS on a pay as you go basis. Why should somebody who works all there life may only go to the doctors twice a year have to pay the same as somebody who gets drunk every weekend takes drugs smokes and gets into fights and ends up in A&E 10 times in a year? Probably a extreme example but do get my point?

It is more likely that the heavy drinkers and smokers are paying for your NHS care due to the huge amounts of tax on cigarettes and alcohol. 

 

You could live as a saint all your life and still get cancer or get hit by a car and require huge amounts of care. Or you could be a an absolute scoundrel and never need a day of health care and die suddenly. I just don't get this fear that someone else is benefiting more than you, I would dearly love to pay into the NHS all my life and never have to use it, in the same way I am happy to have car insurance but I hope I never have a car accident. But if I do need it, it brings me great comfort to know it is there and it won't create a financial burden on me or my family and I will never have to decide between care and financial security.

 

(of course it could be better but as a principle I think it is amazing)

[bovril]

9 hours ago, foxoffderby said:

paying tax contributes to the system. If it was up to me I would like to pay less tax out of my salary every year and use the NHS on a pay as you go basis. Why should somebody who works all there life may only go to the doctors twice a year have to pay the same as somebody who gets drunk every weekend takes drugs smokes and gets into fights and ends up in A&E 10 times in a year? Probably a extreme example but do get my point?

Paying tax doesn't equal contributing to society, unless you think an investment banker automatically contributes more to the UK than, for example, a librarian or swimming instructor and therefore deserves to use the NHS more.  

I get your point about the smoker and drinker, although it is an extreme example and that person could quite plausibly pay more tax than you or I do. 

Edited 3 November 2017 by bovril

[foxoffderby]

4 hours ago, Captain... said:

It is more likely that the heavy drinkers and smokers are paying for your NHS care due to the huge amounts of tax on cigarettes and alcohol. 

 

You could live as a saint all your life and still get cancer or get hit by a car and require huge amounts of care. Or you could be a an absolute scoundrel and never need a day of health care and die suddenly. I just don't get this fear that someone else is benefiting more than you, I would dearly love to pay into the NHS all my life and never have to use it, in the same way I am happy to have car insurance but I hope I never have a car accident. But if I do need it, it brings me great comfort to know it is there and it won't create a financial burden on me or my family and I will never have to decide between care and financial security.

 

(of course it could be better but as a principle I think it is amazing)

Who said I was talking about myself? I drink smoke and still get into tangles from time to time. You might want to avoid me at the match on a Saturday. I stand by what I said the thread is called unpopular opinions you hold. Not start judging people by your own standards. I'll leave it that.

[Sampson]

I'm in a similar position to Webbo I think. The NHS isn't god or infallable and if privitising parts of it makes it better then - even if it is "negligible" that's surely worth it in this field as that's the difference between lives being saved and lives not being? - I'm all for it. Have to admit ignorance on how healthcare works in mainland Europe though, I've never really looked into it.

[RonnieTodger]

14 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Leicester city centre isn't that bad, compared to other similar cities such as Derby and Birmingham.

I think Leicester city centre is at its worst during the day, especially Saturday afternoon. Anything within a 5 minute walkable radius of the clock tower is a circus of freaks.

 

Every time I go out at night, I always think "oh it's alright actually", but then if I go to the bank or shopping, I remember how shit it can be.