What do people expect?

[Koke]

Cast your minds back to Shakespeare this season. Parked the bus at Bournemouth and Huddersfield and fluked 2 draws. Produced the most abysmal anti football displays @ home v WBA. I dont need to renind you of the diabolical end to Ranieri's tenure here. Manager and players deserve criticism. Lord knows I've been critical of Okazaki and King and Fuchs but in the contect of understanding where we are as a team and understanding our limitations. 

[l444ry]

37 minutes ago, davieG said:

I'm not one to get over excited or suicidal over football I've been watching LCFC too long to get wound up but I do think we get so many fundamentals wrong,

 

Kasper's kicks and our throw in so often end up with the opposition in possession.

 

Clearance headers, even if one doubts they should be headed and often under no pressure are headed as far as possible with no thought to where they are going rather than trying to find a team mate.

 

There's way to much panicking and just hoofing the ball anywhere again even under very little pressure, even Mahrez was doing it yesterday when he of all people is capable of controlling the ball and doing something constructive with it. The ball is not a hot potato, we've seen that they are capable of playing a simple passing game in a controlled way but they panic so much.

 

For a team that aspires to be wanting to play a more passing game our passing is horrendous and that includes the likes of Iborra with him it's being too casual with others it's panicking and with some they just seem incapable of doing it in pressure environment. I'm not talking speculative long balls either this is to players nearby.

 

This doesn't just happen against the better teams in fact recently all of the above seems worse against teams around and below us.

 

Confidence obviously plays a part but it's not all about that as  there's no way we could have gone in against Palace for instance and not feel confident.

 

I can't say I know what the answer is perhaps so many of the team are so ingrained into our hit on the break football that they can't change or at least not quickly enough.

 

I think our current mid table position reflects the quality of the team quite accurately so maybe we're stuck here for the foreseeable future which is better than being in the bottom six or the Championship where we've spent so much of our recent history.

 

 

Most level headed people would agree with this. The main thing is that Puel is trying to change the playing style with the same old players and it will all look clunky from time to time until new blood can be added. I'm pretty sure we'd be in a more desperate position if Shakespeare were still at the helm. Puel needs a couple of transfer windows or one decent window to really push us on before we can judge him properly. We've only seen it in fits and starts but there is are definite signs of improvement in playing style from what I can see.

[MC Prussian]

From what I gather in this thread, there's an equal amount of positive and negative points being made.

Call it transitional period, but blaming it on the manager (who's only been here for a few months) isn't helping anyone.

 

There's light and shadow in our current style of play and this up and down kills it for me.

 

I know it can be a tough ask at times given the opposition, but why can't we get the basics right?

Liverpool are a massive force going forward and yesterday showed once more why they should be feared. The amount of attacking talent they've got is staggering. Having an on song Salah in the squad makes such a difference, plus Coutinho and Firmino, plus Milner working his ass off in the middle.

 

It's difficult to break through with that setup, they were near-suffocating us in our own half, forcing us to defend our own penalty box with nine men in front of Schmeichel, but we gave them so many more opportunities that weren't necessary. We just gave the ball away, kicked it into the stands, granted them corners by the minute it seemed. And that's not just the case with Liverpool. After Watford scored the equalizer, they were all over us and we stopped playing. A fatal development. I can live with defeats, but it is the manner by which we lose which grates me. There's just not that quality in the squad to see things out, we too often lack that winning mentality.

 

We're missing that cleverness and/or are rarely able to score a second when taking the lead. We're so inconsistent, it hurts. Our central midfield unfortunately has little to no influence on the game (Iborra is still hit and miss, King without any input going forward and Ndidi prone to costly mistakes), we concede free-kicks for silly fouls (regardless of the referee) and we tend to succumb to pressure when it's on us.

 

To the people saying we're eight in the table: Where could we be with two more wins out of our last four matches? We'd still be in the same position potentially, but closer to the Top Five. Our present run is negative, with three losses and one draw from four PL matches, plus the League Cup exit. We'd be looking at four straight league losses, if it had't been for that late and lucky Maguire equalizer against Manchester United. Lucky that our away win at Newcastle was down to an own goal, lucky we scraped by Burnley at home. Some of these December results are good. But all in all, I'd say it is a rather appalling form.

 

I do hope we can find our true shape and form from now on, start the new year with a win against Huddersfield and can rely on a new central midfield pairing with Silva and Iborra to light things up. We also need to get some transfers underway, our squad is so unbalanced with that amount of attackers (that we hardly ever use). Vardy, Okazaki, Iheanacho, Slimani, Musa, Ulloa... Six strikers for one and a half attacking positions... 

On the other hand, a quality right-back and maybe another younger centre-back are desperately required.

Edited 31 December 2017 by MC Prussian

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

The table says otherwise (we are 8th) and we are past halfway through. We have Mahrez back in great form and Vardy nearly in double figures. 

 

But you didnt answer my question what do you expect Leicester City to achieve this season? 

After the money, they spent pre-season a hell of a lot better.

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

Palace played well. Perfect away performance by them, fair play. We knocked the ball around relatively well, their keeper made a great save at 1-0. 

Is there no end to your straw clutching? We were third best all over the pitch, it was embarrassing to watch.

[Babylon]

9 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

From what I gather in this thread, there's an equal amount of positive and negative points being made.

Call it transitional period, but blaming it on the manager (who's only been here for a few months) isn't helping anyone.

 

There's light and shadow in our current style of play and this up and down kills it for me.

 

I know it can be a tough ask at times given the opposition, but why can't we get the basics right?

Liverpool are a massive force going forward and yesterday showed once more why they should be feared. The amount of attacking talent they've got is staggering. Having an on song Salah in the squad makes such a difference, plus Coutinho and Firmino, plus Milner working his ass off in the middle.

 

It's difficult to break through with that setup, they were near-suffocating us in our own half, forcing us to defend our own penalty box with nine men in front of Schmeichel, but we gave them so many more opportunities that weren't necessary. We just gave the ball away, kicked it into the stands, granted them corners by the minute it seemed. And that's not just the case with Liverpool. After Watford scored the equalizer, they were all over us and we stopped playing. A fatal development. I can live with defeats, but it is the manner by which we lose which grates me. There's just not that quality in the squad to see things out, we too often lack that winning mentality.

 

We're missing that cleverness and/or are rarely able to score a second when taking the lead. We're so inconsistent, it hurts. Our central midfield unfortunately has little to no influence on the game (Iborra is still hit and miss, King without any input going forward and Ndidi prone to costly mistakes), we concede free-kicks for silly fouls (regardless of the referee) and we tend to succumb to pressure when it's on us.

 

To the people saying we're eight in the table: Where could we be with two more wins out of our last four matches? We'd still be in the same position potentially, but closer to the Top Five. Our present run is negative, with three losses and one draw from four PL matches, plus the League Cup exit. We'd be looking at four straight league losses, if it had't been for that late and lucky Maguire equalizer against Manchester United. Lucky that our away win at Newcastle was down to an own goal, lucky we scraped by Burnley at home. Some of these December results are good. But all in all, I'd say it is a rather appalling form.

 

I do hope we can find our true shape and form from now on, start the new year with a win against Huddersfield and can rely on a new central midfield pairing with Silva and Iborra to light things up. We also need to get some transfers underway, our squad is so unbalanced with that amount of attackers (that we hardly ever use). Vardy, Okazaki, Iheanacho, Slimani, Musa, Ulloa... Six strikers for one and a half attacking positions... 

On the other hand, a quality right-back and maybe another younger centre-back are desperately required.

As per usual some people set their stall out early with regards the manager and even in the face of a great run and some great results were putting him down, it's about them being right and nothing else. I expected nothing more than ridiculous over the top stuff during a bad run.

 

Just laugh and ignore them is how I handle it now.

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

Pointless bringing up yesterday, the best any team like us has got there is a draw and in the process they still got hammered and were lucky to not concede half a dozen goals as Liverpool missed a string of chances and dominated the games.

 

Palace and Watford was a shit show, but it's clear we just don't have the quality in the squad to rotate as we need to in this period of a stupid number of games so close together. 

 

King shouldn't be on the bench let alone starting games. We rely on the same core to play almost every minute and it's failed.

 

The biggest worry for me was that we were attempting to implement a passing style, yes it wasn't perfect and looked at but clunky at times, as you'd expect. But for the last 4 or 5 games we seem to have totally abandoned that... why?

Yes, you are right yesterday it's about what we expected. and as you pointed out our strength in depth is appaling considering the money we have spent. Lose tomorrow? Hope we can really turn it on tomorrow and get to that 40 mark as soon as possible.

[Babylon]

3 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

Is there no end to your straw clutching? We were third best all over the pitch, it was embarrassing to watch.

We were, but credit to Hodgson, how he set them up was outstanding and totally nullified us more than any team I've seen in a while. 

[CosbehFox]

9 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

After the money, they spent pre-season a hell of a lot better.

Still haven’t answered with a position though, come on where do you expect us to finish ?

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, NewquayFox said:

Crikey this place is full of miserable so & so’s, we are 8th in one of the toughest Leagues in the world, admitted we are having a wobble but we will bounce back.

if someone posts make a constructive comment or say nothing, too many on here switch FT on after eating 2 bags of Haribo’s and the sugar rush takes over......

Comments either positive or negative should be welcomed on here, or else what is there to debate? If I post a negative reply and someone then does a positive one that destroys my argument then great, that's what makes the site so good surely?

[Bunyip]

1 hour ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

We were excellent knocking the ball around first half thirty minutes at Watford. It’s no surprise when you have 12 to 13 players at the very max are good enough to play at PL level that you tire given the schedule of this month

It's the same for all teams ?

[CosbehFox]

2 minutes ago, Bunyip said:

It's the same for all teams ?

No not really. Arsenal played on 22nd and then 28th for example. Play today and then the 3rd. 

 

Just to add it’s not Puel’s fault, he only has 12/13 players fit enough and capable of playing PL. 

Edited 31 December 2017 by Cardiff_Fox

[Raw Dykes]

15 hours ago, Col city fan said:

I was having a family dinner today whilst the match was on, so didn't get to read much of the match thread or contribute to it. But, as usual, what I was reading was really positive when we scored, to utter doom and gloom when we conceded and especially when they got the winner.

Now I'm reading in the post match thread that some people are wanting Puel out!

WHAT....DID...PEOPLE....REALISTICALLY....EXPECT.....TODAY?

Most of the pre match predictions were of us to get hammered, with score lines of 3-1,4-1 (I had that) and good old Scouse with his 9-0.

We were leading until the second half ffs! We kept out an on-form, free-flowing side, playing all four bloody strikers and went down to a late goal (surprise surprise) to win a very good game of football.

Did any of you really imagine that we would hold out after approx 50 mins when they equalized? With the back four we were playing, at Anfield, in front of a buoyant home crowd?

I think people need to get real. If you genuinely believe we were going to go on to win that match today, you're spectacles are ridiculously  blue tinted.

We need to get through this difficult run of games, beating Huddersfield at home next, get Silva into the equation, and give Puel the time he needs to shift some of the bloody rubbish in this squad, and start to properly rebuild it.

The level of animosity toward a team that was reduced in strength and playing away against a team bang in scoring form, is not proportionate to losing just 2-1

Get a sense of bloody perspective, give the new manager time to build HIS squad of players and then properly judge.

Personally, I don't envy him. The club has signed some stinking players in recent times.

I agree with much of this, but I think a lot of people were frustrated with just how poor we looked after we scored. We could easily have been 4 or 5-1 down by half time if we hadn't been so jammy. It's a bit concerning that we keep looking to shut up shop just after we've scored, no matter how early in the game it is.

 

I never for a minute expected us to win at Anfield, but I was a bit disappointed to see us struggle so much.

 

Anyway, I am optimistic at the mo. I think Silva could be a signing that makes a big difference for us, and we might be able to strengthen one or two other positions in January, as well.

[Babylon]

54 minutes ago, Babylon said:

We were, but credit to Hodgson, how he set them up was outstanding and totally nullified us more than any team I've seen in a while. 

I should add Hodgson is making a few people look very silly at the moment considering he was meant to be a clueless manager.

[Leeds Fox]

I tell toy what I don’t expect @Col city fan, to bring Mahrez and Vardy off when to everyone the obvious change was Gray for Okazaki. Sent a message to both teams while the game was in the balance. Utterly ridiculous. 

[inckley fox]

7 hours ago, Col city fan said:

Wow. Even for you that’s an exceptionally arrogant post. You must be a hoot to work with.

I say once more, given the two squads and the circumstances yesterday, just about nobody gave us much chance. Just read the prematch and the prematch score line, threads.

Therefore, ‘what do you expect’ is a perfectly fair question and has received some perfectly fair responses. Now, on Monday, I EXPECT us to beat Huddersfield.

I won’t get into any debate on Amartey, despite being baited, cos I didn’t watch the game.

There's some expression involving a kettle which is relevant here. It's a shame you're confusing the points I'm making, and my thoughts on the self-contradictory nature of your post, with the sort of person I am. For all you know I spend my afternoons cradling broken sparrows and knitting mittens for the needy.

 

You've underlined my point. You make very critical observations and are happy to scapegoat individuals when you do watch games - and I think you make some good points when you do so - but this time you didn't watch the game and were suddenly, uncharacteristically, full of patience and understanding, keen to tell everyone else that they should be too. I didn't think it was a particularly valid or enlightening contribution, regardless of whether other people enjoyed your seasonal charitability.

 

It was inconsistent of you to question people's disappointment at a single result against a top side, when you've had plenty to say in the past about us sweeping poor results against top sides under the carpet. You also confused people's critical observations about a game in its wider context (of a poor run of form), with them hating the side and changing their opinions at the drop of a hat.

 

I'm sure some people said one thing before the game and others said another after, I'm sure some were daft enough to lambast the manager, but I felt you were making no particular point yourself. As for expectations: Do we expect to beat Liverpool? No, as you rightly say. Do we expect not to come out of those four games with just a point? Yes. Do we expect to hold onto leads better than we are right now? Yes. Should we get something out of Liverpool, bearing in mind their home record, when we're a goal up at half-time? Contrary to what you said, without watching the game, yes, again.

 

So I couldn't agree with the over-simplification in your message, even though - as you point out - it was very well-received. When you publish something as sweepingly critical as that, I would have thought you'd expect people to question it. I'm sorry if that wasn't what you wanted to hear. Now I'll get back to demoralising my co-workers.

[Babylon]

32 minutes ago, Leeds Fox said:

I tell toy what I don’t expect @Col city fan, to bring Mahrez and Vardy off when to everyone the obvious change was Gray for Okazaki. Sent a message to both teams while the game was in the balance. Utterly ridiculous. 

Why was it ridiculous when Mahrez especially was playing total dog muck?

[Leeds Fox]

8 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Why was it ridiculous when Mahrez especially was playing total dog muck?

 

It gave them absolutely nothing to worry about and in my opinion, gave them the incentive to take the game.

 

Then when they did, we had no chance of taking anything home. 

[Phube]

So we lost to a useless Palace side, but they’ve just done what 18 teams have failed to do?

 

What does it mean?

Edited 31 December 2017 by Phube

[Babylon]

1 minute ago, Leeds Fox said:

 

It gave them absolutely nothing to worry about and in my opinion, gave them the incentive to take the game.

 

Then when they did, we had no chance of taking anything home. 

Considering we looked more dangerous after the changes I don't get your point.

 

The changes had nothing to do with them "taking the game". Maguire ****ing up caused that.

[Babylon]

Just now, Phube said:

So we lost to a useless Palace side, but they’ve jus done what 18 teams have failed to do?

 

What does it mean?

It means they aren't useless. The Palace we played wasn't the Palace people faced at the start of the season.

[Guest]

8th.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

1 hour ago, Leeds Fox said:

I tell toy what I don’t expect @Col city fan, to bring Mahrez and Vardy off when to everyone the obvious change was Gray for Okazaki. Sent a message to both teams while the game was in the balance. Utterly ridiculous. 

I disagree with that because Gray was playing well. Vardy was isolated and perhaps he (Puel) had a mind to save his legs for tomorrow. Slim getting on the end of Albrighton's crosses could have worked.

And besides, Mahrez hadnt been doing much and his touch was uncharacteristically awful yesterday

Edited 31 December 2017 by AlloverthefloorYesNdidi

[inckley fox]

1 hour ago, Babylon said:

As per usual some people set their stall out early with regards the manager and even in the face of a great run and some great results were putting him down, it's about them being right and nothing else. I expected nothing more than ridiculous over the top stuff during a bad run.

 

Just laugh and ignore them is how I handle it now.

Not all of the criticism is unbalanced or premature. Puel needs time to bring his own people in and evolve the squad - early results, good and bad, will offer few clues as to how successful he will be in the long-term. On the other hand, you can question his decision-making and its effectiveness in the short-term - and I think it's fine to do this because the longer term success will, to an extent, depend on it. Blips can turn into something more than blips and, as we well know, they can cost managers their jobs.

 

I questioned one of your points yesterday, in good humour I thought, because I felt you were looking at the criticism as an isolated incident, rather than in its wider context. I can see here that you're not doing this, so I tend to agree that people need to be less erratic in their appraisals. But I also understand doubts about attacking full backs, or fielding three midfielders who don't chip in as much with the pressing game as others might, or squad rotation, or the timing and effectiveness of his substitutions.

 

If Puel - as I hope he will - recovers from this run of poor form and stays for a long time, then these gripes will seem irrelevant. As silly as people moaning about Pearson not playing Gelson Fernandes or Sol Bamba in 2011. But if we continue to leave our CBs as exposed as we are right now, and concede goals as frequently as we do right now, Puel might not get to stay for a long time.

 

That said, I suppose management is constantly about finding answers and dodging bullets. We shouldn't ignore that - even in defeat - there was progress yesterday. The full backs sat deeper, I thought, and Amartey redeemed himself a little. And they'd clearly worked on how Schmeichel attacks set piece deliveries.

 

Is that balanced? Or am I one of the bad guys too...?!

[inckley fox]

14 minutes ago, Babylon said:

Considering we looked more dangerous after the changes I don't get your point.

 

The changes had nothing to do with them "taking the game". Maguire ****ing up caused that.

Maybe the absence of changes did, though.

 

Gray and Mahrez were struggling on the ball and off it, I'm not sure you have to wait so late to address that. I thought three of our midfielders were failing to close their men down - the aforementioned and Iborra - so naturally that was inviting pressure. I was yelling for Gray to be switched, perhaps for James, in order to offer more protection and I'm not sure we needed to wait so long while we had players who weren't influencing the play.

 

That said, removing your top assist provider and scorer - and the guys who made our goal yesterday - then immediately chasing a game with attackers who hadn't yet adapted to its pace, is always going to place a question mark on your substitutions.

 

I know we concede a lot of pre-half time goals, but it feels to me like we're also blowing games in the 55-75 minute period, either by failing to claw our way back into them or by conceding the initiative. Against Palace, we were dormant during that period. Against Watford, Man U and Liverpool we conceded a number of goals without reply at that time. Considering 55-75 is a time when some managers choose to affect games with their subs, and Puel hasn't done that - or at least hasn't done that at that time - it makes sense that people are wondering whether he could be more proactive.