Salisbury, Skripal, Poison and Russia.

[Wymsey]

Russia's constant dismissal of allegations against them (even with strong valid evidence, with this and other events such as the shooting down of a plane in Ukraine a few years ago) reminds me much of what Donald Trump does moreorless every day - lie and trying to play the victim card.

 

Just glad that bigger countries are supporting the UK's version of views on this.

 

This ongoing matter could be the start of something more serious.

[Nick]

On 05/09/2018 at 11:54, Kopfkino said:

Great memories of Corbyn asking us to send a sample to Russia to check if it was theirs. Jesus ****ing Christ that man.

Not one to defend particularly this guy but the only reason he said that was because the Russians asked for a sample. He simply wanted to comply, to open dialogue and see what they came up with... He wanted to appear impartial as it suited his stance both politically and as the opposition leader.

[Strokes]

10 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Russia's constant dismissal of allegations against them (even with strong valid evidence, with this and other events such as the shooting down of a plane in Ukraine a few years ago) reminds me much of what Donald Trump does moreorless every day - lie and trying to play the victim card.

 

Just glad that bigger countries are supporting the UK's version of views on this.

 

This ongoing matter could be the start of something more serious.

It was nice knowing you wymes.

[Salisbury Fox]

6 hours ago, Swan Lesta said:

Not one to defend particularly this guy but the only reason he said that was because the Russians asked for a sample. He simply wanted to comply, to open dialogue and see what they came up with... He wanted to appear impartial as it suited his stance both politically and as the opposition leader.

And what good would have come of it. If your assertion is true It shows monumental niaivity which he is rightfully getting some stick for.  Personnaly I believe that he just distrusts our own intelligence services, just as his handler Seamus Milne does.

[leicsmac]

1 hour ago, Salisbury Fox said:

And what good would have come of it. If your assertion is true It shows monumental niaivity which he is rightfully getting some stick for.  Personnaly I believe that he just distrusts our own intelligence services, just as his handler Seamus Milne does.

As much as this was indeed the Russians in the field with the bottle of whatever-it-was (evidence is pretty conclusive), I'm not sure it's a good thing to knock idealism, no matter how naive it might appear.

 

Every day international relations runs on cynical realpolitik is another wasted day.

[Salisbury Fox]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

As much as this was indeed the Russians in the field with the bottle of whatever-it-was (evidence is pretty conclusive), I'm not sure it's a good thing to knock idealism, no matter how naive it might appear.

 

Every day international relations runs on cynical realpolitik is another wasted day.

But it is distrust in our intelligence services being dressed up as being idealism.  Corbyn is helping to bring credibility to Russian propaganda.  The fact that he is still suggesting that they should be given a sample actually goes beyond niavity in my opinion.

[leicsmac]

40 minutes ago, Salisbury Fox said:

But it is distrust in our intelligence services being dressed up as being idealism.  Corbyn is helping to bring credibility to Russian propaganda.  The fact that he is still suggesting that they should be given a sample actually goes beyond niavity in my opinion.

In this case, yes, I think it's pretty ridiculous for the insistence that a sample be given seeing as the case is pretty cut and dried.

 

Just to be sure about my point here, I'm not doubting the work the intelligence services do here, I'm bemoaning the attitude that means they have to exist at all, in any capacity, in any place. Ditto for anything that falls under the umbrella of "national defence" (defence is such a ludicrous term for what it really is.)

[Guest MattP]

2 hours ago, leicsmac said:

As much as this was indeed the Russians in the field with the bottle of whatever-it-was (evidence is pretty conclusive), I'm not sure it's a good thing to knock idealism, no matter how naive it might appear.

 

Every day international relations runs on cynical realpolitik is another wasted day.

You didn't seem to take this point of view when it was Trump trusting the Russians over his own security services.

[Nick]

8 minutes ago, MattP said:

You didn't seem to take this point of view when it was Trump trusting the Russians over his own security services.

I think Trump and JC may have similar relationships with their respective domestic security services... Both in terms of relationship and information disclosure!

[leicsmac]

39 minutes ago, MattP said:

You didn't seem to take this point of view when it was Trump trusting the Russians over his own security services.

Perhaps I wasn't clear when I said that I wasn't knocking the intelligence services but rather the way the world is that means there's a need for them?

[The Guvnor]

So Putin has identified the 2 Russians who visited Salisbury and they are both civilians............................

Well they are now.

 

 

[Guest MattP]

7 minutes ago, The Guvnor said:

So Putin has identified the 2 Russians who visited Salisbury and they are both civilians............................

Well they are now.

That's not the smartest thing to say really.

 

That means either his regime is involved with murder on British soil or it means ordinary Russians can wander around with chemical weapons on them and get them out of Moscow airport.

[Alf Bentley]

So what is the next piss-taking from Putin?

 

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear. They are civilians who were in Salisbury on business and to visit the cathedral. They took a wrong turn and walked down Skripal's street by chance, but never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear to confirm that they visited Salisbury for a surprise visit to their old mate Sergei Skripal, but unfortunately he was out having a pizza. They never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: 2 different men appear, officially identified as Petrov & Boshirov. They never left Russia. Two unknown criminals must have forged their passports. UK passport control really need to up their game.

- Press conference: Russian secret services have identified the 2 men as known criminals with no links to the state. They are on the run - and must have obtained the novichok from Porton Down, which really needs to up its game.

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have disappeared without trace"

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have chosen not come forward to the media. What can we do? Russia is a free country"

 

Tempting to compile a poll... 

[The Guvnor]

1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said:

So what is the next piss-taking from Putin?

 

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear. They are civilians who were in Salisbury on business and to visit the cathedral. They took a wrong turn and walked down Skripal's street by chance, but never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear to confirm that they visited Salisbury for a surprise visit to their old mate Sergei Skripal, but unfortunately he was out having a pizza. They never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: 2 different men appear, officially identified as Petrov & Boshirov. They never left Russia. Two unknown criminals must have forged their passports. UK passport control really need to up their game.

- Press conference: Russian secret services have identified the 2 men as known criminals with no links to the state. They are on the run - and must have obtained the novichok from Porton Down, which really needs to up its game.

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have disappeared without trace"

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have chosen not come forward to the media. What can we do? Russia is a free country"

 

Tempting to compile a poll... 

 

Did I see on the TV very recently that his popularity had taken a bit of a knock, down from 60 something to 40 something %, so it was off to the state run video library to regurgitate his masculine prowess shown on a video in March of his hunting skills in Kamchatka. 'Even the bears keep away' said the smiling news reporter...………………………..    Jeez

[ithuriel]

1 hour ago, The Guvnor said:

 

Did I see on the TV very recently that his popularity had taken a bit of a knock, down from 60 something to 40 something %, so it was off to the state run video library to regurgitate his masculine prowess shown on a video in March of his hunting skills in Kamchatka. 'Even the bears keep away' said the smiling news reporter...………………………..    Jeez

Didn't know his body odour was that bad  best be careful taking the piss out of Putin less some perfume salesmen turn up on my doorstep.

[Innovindil]

21 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

So what is the next piss-taking from Putin?

 

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear. They are civilians who were in Salisbury on business and to visit the cathedral. They took a wrong turn and walked down Skripal's street by chance, but never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: the 2 men in the CCTV footage appear to confirm that they visited Salisbury for a surprise visit to their old mate Sergei Skripal, but unfortunately he was out having a pizza. They never saw any novichok.

- Press conference: 2 different men appear, officially identified as Petrov & Boshirov. They never left Russia. Two unknown criminals must have forged their passports. UK passport control really need to up their game.

- Press conference: Russian secret services have identified the 2 men as known criminals with no links to the state. They are on the run - and must have obtained the novichok from Porton Down, which really needs to up its game.

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have disappeared without trace"

- Putin: "Regrettably, the 2 men identified have chosen not come forward to the media. What can we do? Russia is a free country"

 

Tempting to compile a poll... 

Looks like number 1. Although not business, visiting the cathedral because it's pretty big. 

 

[breadandcheese]

If you're going to lie, at least make it believable.  

 

Travelling to the UK for three days to see Salisbury Cathedral. 

 

 

[Alf Bentley]

4 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

If you're going to lie, at least make it believable.  

 

Travelling to the UK for three days to see Salisbury Cathedral. 

 

 

 

Putin's absolutely taking the piss - deliberately, as he's not stupid, whatever else he is.

 

Coming out with such a half-baked story is a deliberate expression of contempt for the UK/West, I'd say.

 

I know all this is deadly serious, someone has died, several other people nearly died and Putin is a dangerous man, but I have to admire his sense of humour. 

[Guest MattP]

"It has a spire that is 123 metres"

 

Incredible stuff, can see a bit more of this, going to be absolutely hilarious to see the response when Corbyn is in charge.

[breadandcheese]

59 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Putin's absolutely taking the piss - deliberately, as he's not stupid, whatever else he is.

 

Coming out with such a half-baked story is a deliberate expression of contempt for the UK/West, I'd say.

 

I know all this is deadly serious, someone has died, several other people nearly died and Putin is a dangerous man, but I have to admire his sense of humour. 

The biggest joke will be when the likes of Galloway parrot the official line as fact.

[Guest MattP]

Can't believe they went to Salisbury twice in two days, I know the Cathedral is good but surely you spend one at Stonehenge? 

[cambridgefox]

38 minutes ago, MattP said:

Can't believe they went to Salisbury twice in two days, I know the Cathedral is good but surely you spend one at Stonehenge? 

I live in Ely and I’ve been in it about 10 times in 47 years.

They could have wandered around looking in opticians,coffee shops and numerous charity shops in 20 minutes.

Wait while I look for some Cathedral facts on Wikipedia.

[Guest MattP]

 

[Guest MattP]

I want the opinion of @Sharpe's Fox on this subject.

[Guest MattP]

This is just turning completely mental....