Salisbury, Skripal, Poison and Russia.

[Guest MattP]

State of Russian intelligence now....

 

[Finnegan]

28 minutes ago, MattP said:

State of Russian intelligence now....

 

 

[Innovindil]

3 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

 

The Hague has a great cathedral in the Gothic style, with a steeple 957m high.

I'd get straight over there, mate. A Russian friend told me all about it....

Russia is yet to comment officially. However, its foreign ministry said one would follow shortly after it dismissed the allegations as "Western spy mania.... picking up pace".

 

Can we get the next round of "pick the Russian excuse" please? 

[James.]

Am I giving them too much credit by suggesting that this may have been intentionally shit so as to distract from the real stuff they are doing which we are all completely unaware of?

 

They did the consecutive passport numbers in the Salisbury case as well. It genuinely feels like they are just taking the piss.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, James. said:

Am I giving them too much credit by suggesting that this may have been intentionally shit so as to distract from the real stuff they are doing which we are all completely unaware of?

 

They did the consecutive passport numbers in the Salisbury case as well. It genuinely feels like they are just taking the piss.

Yeah it’s almost too obvious to be true. Something seems a miss. Surely they can’t be genuinely that crap at covering tracks?

It’s either a deliberate trail or a set up.

[Countryfox]

8 minutes ago, James. said:

Am I giving them too much credit by suggesting that this may have been intentionally shit so as to distract from the real stuff they are doing which we are all completely unaware of?

 

They did the consecutive passport numbers in the Salisbury case as well. It genuinely feels like they are just taking the piss.

 

1 minute ago, Strokes said:

Yeah it’s almost too obvious to be true. Something seems a miss. Surely they can’t be genuinely that crap at covering tracks?

It’s either a deliberate trail or a set up.

 

Donald Trump is an Android controlled my Russia but it will take ages before we all work it out ...    I guessed straight away when I saw his hair ...

[Alf Bentley]

1 minute ago, Innovindil said:

Russia is yet to comment officially. However, its foreign ministry said one would follow shortly after it dismissed the allegations as "Western spy mania.... picking up pace".

 

Can we get the next round of "pick the Russian excuse" please? 

 

1) The 4 men identified are innocent tourists who flew to Holland to buy tulips. They chanced to park near the chemical weapons inspectorate to consult florists' web sites on their laptops/mobiles.

2) The 4 men are undercover MI6 double agents who hacked into the chemical weapons inspectorate to discredit Russia.

3) The 4 men are English nationalists sent by Porton Down to poison Dutch cheese supplies as revenge for EU intransigence over Brexit

4) The 4 men are Russian but they are traitors and scumbags seeking to ruin President Putin's good name.

5) The incident was staged and the pictures faked by the West. It is fake news. Does anyone believe Russian secret services are this amateurish?

6) Putin holds the West in contempt, believing there is nothing it can do to hurt him, so it doesn't matter if spies are amateurish and caught in the act (can't see that one being announced, though)

 

[Innovindil]

3 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

1) The 4 men identified are innocent tourists who flew to Holland to buy tulips. They chanced to park near the chemical weapons inspectorate to consult florists' web sites on their laptops/mobiles.

2) The 4 men are undercover MI6 double agents who hacked into the chemical weapons inspectorate to discredit Russia.

3) The 4 men are English nationalists sent by Porton Down to poison Dutch cheese supplies as revenge for EU intransigence over Brexit

4) The 4 men are Russian but they are traitors and scumbags seeking to ruin President Putin's good name.

5) The incident was staged and the pictures faked by the West. It is fake news. Does anyone believe Russian secret services are this amateurish?

6) Putin holds the West in contempt, believing there is nothing it can do to hurt him, so it doesn't matter if spies are amateurish and caught in the act (can't see that one being announced, though)

 

I so hope it's #1. 

[Wymsey]

Think it's best to put Russia on 'ignore'.

They've come out with a lot of rubbish, particularly recently, and continue to deny the facts that they were behind this and the Ukraine plane blast.

Not surprised, and it's quite normal to expect now, as they have come to play the game of chess and throwing their toys out of the pram when other countries etc suspect them of foul play.

[Webbo]

3 minutes ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Think it's best to put Russia on 'ignore'.

They've come out with a lot of rubbish, particularly recently, and continue to deny the facts that they were behind this and the Ukraine plane blast.

Not surprised, and it's quite normal to expect now, as they have come to play the game of chess and throwing their toys out of the pram when other countries etc suspect them of foul play.

It's a bit hard to ignore cyber hacking and nerve agent.

[Strokes]

5 hours ago, Webbo said:

It's a bit hard to ignore cyber hacking and nerve agent.

I haven’t noticed it mate 

[leicsmac]

11 hours ago, James. said:

Am I giving them too much credit by suggesting that this may have been intentionally shit so as to distract from the real stuff they are doing which we are all completely unaware of?

 

They did the consecutive passport numbers in the Salisbury case as well. It genuinely feels like they are just taking the piss.

 

11 hours ago, Strokes said:

Yeah it’s almost too obvious to be true. Something seems a miss. Surely they can’t be genuinely that crap at covering tracks?

It’s either a deliberate trail or a set up.

I thought this right from the start tbh. Just don't get why the Russians would be this incompetent unless there was something else going on.

[breadandcheese]

4 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

I thought this right from the start tbh. Just don't get why the Russians would be this incompetent unless there was something else going on.

I think all intelligence services have their incompetent moments as they're doing some high risk stuff, so some are going to backfire.

 

Do you remember years back with MI6's rock in Moscow? We looked pretty daft that day and just as incompetent as Russia does now.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16614209

[surrifox]

5 hours ago, leicsmac said:

 

I thought this right from the start tbh. Just don't get why the Russians would be this incompetent unless there was something else going on.

I think the Russians do stupid as well , if not better , than anyone 

[Innovindil]

31 minutes ago, breadandcheese said:

I think all intelligence services have their incompetent moments as they're doing some high risk stuff, so some are going to backfire.

 

Do you remember years back with MI6's rock in Moscow? We looked pretty daft that day and just as incompetent as Russia does now.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16614209

The top comment on that story could actually be Alf. 

 

Comment number27. Posted byU14797313

on19 Jan 2012 09:14

What kind of rock is this? Holmes: Sedimentary, my dear Watson.

MI6 shouldn't have been so secretive? They should have been a little boulder? Oh, hang on they were!

What did the rock in Moscow say to the geologist? Don’t take me for granite.

Take no heed of this story, after all igneous is bliss.

Perhaps a femme fatale instead of a rock? Then subduction could lead to orogeny!

[Guest MattP]

[Countryfox]

 

I think we are letting them know too much about how they were caught ...   for example the alarm going off when they tried to hack in ...  surely best to keep shtum ...

 

Unless !!!  ...   it’s a smokescreen and we are catching them by another still secret method  ...      

 

I’m confusing myself here ....   

[ithuriel]

They are not what they used to be are they?

A successful assassination with a jab with an umbrella on a bridge to this mess with Novichok.

Though it could be that surveillance is easier these days and it is harder to spy successfully? 

 

[Guest MattP]

On 04/10/2018 at 14:52, James. said:

Am I giving them too much credit by suggesting that this may have been intentionally shit so as to distract from the real stuff they are doing which we are all completely unaware of?

 

They did the consecutive passport numbers in the Salisbury case as well. It genuinely feels like they are just taking the piss.

 

13 hours ago, leicsmac said:

I thought this right from the start tbh. Just don't get why the Russians would be this incompetent unless there was something else going on.

If they are then it must be something big because the World is laughing at them at the minute.

 

This case is more unbelievable the more you read of it. The guy stomping on his phone as the police found him to try and destroy the evidence

 

I think it's more likely the West is having some pretty successful incursions into their intelligence and they are getting desperate. 

[leicsmac]

6 hours ago, breadandcheese said:

I think all intelligence services have their incompetent moments as they're doing some high risk stuff, so some are going to backfire.

 

Do you remember years back with MI6's rock in Moscow? We looked pretty daft that day and just as incompetent as Russia does now.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16614209

 

5 hours ago, surrifox said:

I think the Russians do stupid as well , if not better , than anyone 

 

Just now, MattP said:

 

If they are then it must be something big because the World is laughing at them at the minute.

 

This case is more unbelievable the more you read of it. The guy stomping on his phone as the police found him to try and destroy the evidence

 

I think it's more likely the West is having some pretty successful incursions into their intelligence and they are getting desperate. 

Fair arguments - perhaps I'm expecting too much from them.

 

However, if these have been as incompetent as all that, it rather begs the question why Putin is backing them publicly rather than simply "disappearing" them - he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who would broker failure or incompetence of this kind well.

[ithuriel]

1 minute ago, leicsmac said:

 

 

Fair arguments - perhaps I'm expecting too much from them.

 

However, if these have been as incompetent as all that, it rather begs the question why Putin is backing them publicly rather than simply "disappearing" them - he doesn't seem to be the kind of guy who would broker failure or incompetence of this kind well.

Not wise to start disappearing your own spies rather than backing them, you might disappear yourself 

[Wymsey]

The second suspect is named by an investigative website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378

[davieG]

Best read here if your interested - https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/45655589

 

Salisbury FC: The non-league club offering a city relief from poisoning crisis
By Neil Johnston

BBC Sport

2 hours ago From the sectionFootball
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 Masked officials investigate a nerve agent attack in Salisbury
Salisbury is trying to move on after being at the centre of a nerve agent attack
As the main football club in a city at the centre of a nerve agent attack earlier this year, it has been a challenging time for Salisbury FC.

Nearly seven months have passed since a former Russian spy and his daughter were found seriously ill on a bench outside Zizzi's restaurant. They had been poisoned by Novichok.

Police have since linked the attack to another poisoning in June, in which a couple were exposed to Novichok in nearby Amesbury after handling a contaminated perfume dispenser. One person later died in hospital in July.

Salisbury relies on thousands of tourists visiting the cathedral with a medieval spire every year. But this year, hotel bookings are down and the restaurant trade has been hit badly.

It has had an impact on the city's football club too, with players thinking twice about going into Salisbury for shopping and food, the chairman's family reluctant to visit and a key sponsor conceding the "luxury" of being involved with them is threatened by the downturn in tourism and the subsequent financial consequences.

But amid all the turmoil, there is relief to be found at Salisbury FC, a club helping a city come to terms with finding itself at the centre of an international scandal.

'I'm always asked about Novichok'
Founded in 2015 after Salisbury City went into administration, 'The Whites' have gone on to win two promotions in three seasons and now play in the seventh-tier Southern League Premier Division South.

They are one of the best supported teams in the league, with average attendances of around 700, and are managed by former Portsmouth, Birmingham and Millwall striker Steve Claridge.

Away games in the first few weeks of the 2018-19 season have included trips to Beaconsfield Town, Harrow Borough and, in the FA Cup, Weston-super-Mare.

And according to Ian Hammond, a retired businessman and chairman of the club since June 2017, Novichok is a popular topic of conversation in opposition boardrooms whenever Salisbury FC visit.

"I'm asked: 'Is Novichok affecting you?' 'Is it reducing your support?'

"I just say: 'Let's talk about football.'

"Most people have got on with their lives. It's the businesses that have been caught by it. The tourist numbers have been down, shops have been closed.

"Salisbury is the type of place people come in coaches to go to the cathedral.

"My wife's cousin comes every year to a caravan site just outside Salisbury for a week in July and they decided not to come this year. I said they've got more likelihood of being killed in a car crash on the drive down than they have of being affected by Novichok."

A home game at Salisbury FC
Salisbury FC attract some of the biggest crowds in the seventh-tier Southern League Premier Division South
'This has brought the city together'
Manager Claridge is also a director and shareholder after ploughing tens of thousands of pounds of his own finances into the part-time club, which is based about three miles outside the city centre in Old Sarum.

And until last season, he played for the team too, at the age of 51. But he gave up that position in August 2017 when he broke two ribs and a bone in one hand during an FA Cup preliminary round win over Fareham Town.

"What's happened in Salisbury this year, these sorts of things actually bring people together - they don't push people apart," said Claridge, who does not receive a wage for being a manager, a role he has held since the club was founded three years ago.

Steve Claridge, Salisbury FC manager
Steve Claridge has led Salisbury to two promotions in three seasons having started with no players in July 2015
Has he had any problems trying to persuade players to sign because of what has happened?

"People are wary but they're not stupid. I think they understand there's no risk anymore."

As is often the case in football, opponents have found a lighter side to such a serious issue. Claridge says other managers ask 'is it safe to shake your hand? Are you playing in big protective rubber suits or your normal kit?'"

But for the manager himself, the realities of such a major incident so close to home are ever-present.

"Your first thought is with the people who have been directly affected," he said.

"Then you think about the shopkeepers, the businesses in the city - these people have got to survive. It's tough times in normal circumstances without something like this happening.

"You've got to support the community, support the city. I've made trips into town just to eat."

'We're down tens of thousands of pounds'
The club's match programme, of which more than 200 copies are sold each home game, relies on local businesses for advertising.

Sponsorship and adverts are a key source of income for a club with a playing budget of around £3,300 a week.

Salisbury taxi company Value Cars Group ploughs £7,000-£10,000 annually into the club. In return they have adverts in the programme, get exposure on the club's website and have advertising boards around the ground.

However, the company has been hit hard by events this year.

"My industry relies on customers getting from hotels to restaurants, to pubs, to nearby Stonehenge," said Adrian Sainsbury, 49, a Salisbury FC fan and chief executive of Value Cars Group.

The sign that welcomes visitors to the medieval cathedral city of Salisbury
Salisbury is home to about 40,000 people
"All that disappeared in large periods of the spring and summer to the point we have drivers disgruntled and unhappy.

"Normally we're busy and our income is really good. This summer it's been in the doldrums. We're down tens of thousands of pounds - at least 30% down."

Will he reduce the amount of money he invests in Salisbury FC as a result of the downturn in trade?

"Football is a luxury and if people like myself cannot afford to give the team money, they're not going to be around much longer are they? It's going to have a massive impact on them," said Sainsbury.

Will Salisbury ever recover from the Skripal poisoning?
'It's just so quintessentially English'
'I'd think twice about going into Sailsbury'
Few of Claridge's squad live in Sailsbury.

At least one travels 50 miles from Bristol for home games. Others commute from the Isle of Wight and Portsmouth. The manager lives about 30 miles away, between Southampton and Portsmouth.

Midfielder Lewis Benson, who is in his third season at the club, commutes from Winchester.

So what's the feeling in Salisbury's dressing room about what has happened in the city this year?

"I probably go into Salisbury city centre once or twice a year just for a look around the shops," said Benson.

"Would I go there now with my family?

"From my point of view, it would definitely make me think twice. It gives you that slight worry that something could happen."

Sundrenched Salisbury Cathedral pictured from beneath a magnolia in bloom
Salisbury Cathedral - with original Magna Carta documents - is a major attraction
'We've made world news for the wrong reasons'
Salisbury FC have more than 180 season ticket holders, including Gary Nunn.

"You hear stuff like 'when are you going to turn green?' and 'is it safe to go out?' he said.

"Most opposition fans are actually sympathetic. It's been quite devastating for a city that is usually lively with people having fun eating and drinking. It's stopped quite a lot of that.

"Salisbury is on everyone's lips. We've made world news for the wrong reasons when we have lots of other things to offer."

Having won promotion from the Southern League West Division at the end of last season, the football club has at least provided some positive news in a year to forget for the city.

"The club just being there is a help in itself. It's an outlet for people," said programme editor and press officer Alec Hayter.

"If anything it's a means for people to take their minds off what's been going on."

[surrifox]

21 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

The second suspect is named by an investigative website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-45791378

The state of that . "Dr Petrov/ Mishkin is ready to perform your prostate examination now".....

[Wymsey]

Apparently the Bellingcat company is based in Leicester's New Walk area.