Murder rate in London higher than in New York for the first time

[Wymsey]

There appears to be stabbings etc every day in the city, despite the metropolitan police claiming it's overall a safe city..

Not entirely convinced that social media is to take a big blame for the situation imo.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/london-murder-rate-new-york-overtakes-stabbing-a8283866.html

[Guest]

A complicated issue with a number of factors that contribute to the current state of affairs.

 

Either way,

 

 

[Ronish Baxter]

Things are indeed getting out of hands in the capital and lives are being taken. A serious issue isn't it? But, what's the effort from the government in curbing these things? Anything being done seriously or there is no regard for human life loss?

[Fox92]

There'll be stabbings/attacks every day, the media don't report on everything, but does it make it an unsafe City? Over 8mill people live there....

[boots60]

Since NYC adopted zero tolerance the crime rate has plummeted. Would be a good stance for the met police to take but we are too far down the PC route to make that possible.

[Steven]

1 hour ago, boots60 said:

Since NYC adopted zero tolerance the crime rate has plummeted. Would be a good stance for the met police to take but we are too far down the PC route to make that possible.

Try telling that to the young black men targetted in London.

[yorkie1999]

Caught up with Boston.

[Buce]

4 hours ago, boots60 said:

Since NYC adopted zero tolerance the crime rate has plummeted. Would be a good stance for the met police to take but we are too far down the PC route to make that possible.

 

3 hours ago, Steven said:

Try telling that to the young black men targetted in London.

 

I think he has a point.

 

Knife crime in London is largely black-on-black, yet if the police use their 'stop and search' powers the pc brigade start bitching about racial profiling.

[Guest Kopfkino]

Won't change until Sadiq and the Met stop pointing at the government and the government stops pointing at Sadiq and the Met. 

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, Steven said:

Try telling that to the young black men targetted in London.

Do you think the tokenism is worth it as more and more black bodies pile up in the morgue?

 

Whether you like it if not the majority of victims and perpetrators in these cases over the recent years have been black, it can't be helping anyone now to be taking such a soft approach to something so serious so middle class white liberals can pat themselves on the back about how tolerant they are.

[Steven]

5 minutes ago, MattP said:

Do you think the tokenism is worth it as more and more black bodies pile up in the morgue?

 

Whether you like it if not the majority of victims and perpetrators in these cases over the recent years have been black, it can't be helping anyone now to be taking such a soft approach to something so serious so middle class white liberals can pat themselves on the back about how tolerant they are.

So stigmatising all young black men is the answer. Typical right wing answer. If I beat the dog harder then it will do what I want.

 

Why not tackle the reasons and circumstances under which these crimes are occuring rather than putting your faith in brutality.

[Buce]

8 minutes ago, Steven said:

So stigmatising all young black men is the answer. Typical right wing answer. If I beat the dog harder then it will do what I want.

 

Why not tackle the reasons and circumstances under which these crimes are occuring rather than putting your faith in brutality.

 

What do you think those reasons are? And how would you tackle them?

[Countryfox]

You just have to read a few of the previous posts here and you can see why we will never sort this out ...     

[Steven]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

What do you think those reasons are? And how would you tackle them?

Gang culture needs to be tackled and there needs to be a recognotion amongst and within the black community about the knife and gang culture. As long as there is a black on black issue then there needs to be a solution that they provide for themselves.

[Buce]

2 minutes ago, Steven said:

Gang culture needs to be tackled and there needs to be a recognotion amongst and within the black community about the knife and gang culture. As long as there is a black on black issue then there needs to be a solution that they provide for themselves.

2

 

What if that solution isn't forthcoming? Are you suggesting that we should then leave them to it?

[Steven]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

What if that solution isn't forthcoming? Are you suggesting that we should then leave them to it?

Then who is it a problem for?

[Buce]

5 minutes ago, Steven said:

Then who is it a problem for?

 

The victims (not all of whom are part of the gang culture); their families; other law-abiding citizens who live and work in London?

 

 

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, Steven said:

So stigmatising all young black men is the answer. Typical right wing answer. If I beat the dog harder then it will do what I want.

 

Why not tackle the reasons and circumstances under which these crimes are occuring rather than putting your faith in brutality.

Beat the dog harder? Brutality? Why do you always resort to this? Searching people for weapons isn't really beating someone, it's searching them. If it's disproportionate for a certain period of time on a certain ethnic group it's depressing but it's better than seeing more and dead people pile up. I can live myself on the former but certainly not the latter.

 

Do you think people in almost every country in the World haven't tried tackle gang culture? While you are even trying to do that are you still going to do nothing as you don't want to upset someone?

[Steven]

34 minutes ago, MattP said:

Beat the dog harder? Brutality? Why do you always resort to this? Searching people for weapons isn't really beating someone, it's searching them. If it's disproportionate for a certain period of time on a certain ethnic group it's depressing but it's better than seeing more and dead people pile up. I can live myself on the former but certainly not the latter.

 

Do you think people in almost every country in the World haven't tried tackle gang culture? While you are even trying to do that are you still going to do nothing as you don't want to upset someone?

That is a slippery slope which has not and will not work. No freedom to live in "a crime free world". When it does not work perhaps you suggest tracking devices or some such.

[Buce]

12 minutes ago, Steven said:

That is a slippery slope which has not and will not work. No freedom to live in "a crime free world". When it does not work perhaps you suggest tracking devices or some such.

 

No offence, mate, but you haven't offered any solution other than 'sort it out themselves' as if the black community is somehow responsible for policing itself.

 

That attitude is far more divisive than anything MattP has said.

[Guest MattP]

24 minutes ago, Steven said:

That is a slippery slope which has not and will not work. No freedom to live in "a crime free world". When it does not work perhaps you suggest tracking devices or some such.

Easy for you to say, I'd imagine the mothers of the dead men might regard the police stopping, searching and arresting the people with weapons doing it as "working".

[ealingfox]

Looks like crap data twisted to cause hysteria to me, it's a small timescale. If it's the same at the end of the year then maybe we've got something to talk about. It's in the article itself - more than twice as many murders in NYC in 2017. The story there is NYC's impressive reduction - 87% since the 90s is pretty incredible really.

 

Murder rates in London were as high as this under Johnson and even higher under Livingstone, and even then I'm not sure they ranked that highly on a world list.

 

[leicsmac]

2 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

Looks like crap data twisted to cause hysteria to me, it's a small timescale. If it's the same at the end of the year then maybe we've got something to talk about. It's in the article itself - more than twice as many murders in NYC in 2017. The story there is NYC's impressive reduction - 87% since the 90s is pretty incredible really.

 

Murder rates in London were as high as this under Johnson and even higher under Livingstone, and even then I'm not sure they ranked that highly on a world list.

 

This.

 

Baltimore had 343 officially recorded murders last year, and that's a city a tenth of the population of London. The real story is about how NYC have managed to reduce the rate in the way they have, really.

[Trav Le Bleu]

Where does Aleppo come on the list?

[Guest Kopfkino]

3 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

This.

 

Baltimore had 343 officially recorded murders last year, and that's a city a tenth of the population of London. The real story is about how NYC have managed to reduce the rate in the way they have, really.

 

No there is definitely still a story in that at the current rate its set to be the worst year in London for 13 years, one of the worst in 20 years, and is 40% higher than it was three years ago. Plus knife crime is up by a quarter. Maybe the comparisons to New York aren't so useful, but it's still a problem no matter how bad it is anywhere else.