The problem is that our players are quitters.

[vanity]

They quit on Claudio. They quit on Shakey. Now they've quit on Puel. They would quit on f'ing Pep if he was delusional enough to come here. 

 

We have been watching our players not make the effort for the last two seasons. Now their attitude is contaminating Ndidi and Maguire. The only solution that makes any sense is to send the older players who dominate the locker room packing. We need to clear a good 75% of the old guard, players like Morgan, Mahrez, Simpson, Huth, Albrighton, Shinji, Fuchs, Benny, etc.. Players don't need to be seeing time on the pitch to be toxic in the locker room. I am sure there are some good apples in this group, but the squad is stale. It needs fresh blood. It is no surprise that the only players going hard were the young players. The veterans were simply going through the motions.

 

The only hope for this team being a top-half Prem team again is for there to be a firesale. We f'd up keeping Mahrez, and in retrospect, Puel f'd up by letting him right back in the team. Our record against the bottom 13 teams in the league is a f'ing joke since Mahrez walked. The players do not give the effort and lose points to inferior sides just about every week now. Fine, Puel can go, but he is not the main problem. It is time to set the nostalgia aside and put the players from 2015-2016 where they belong -- in the past. 

 

Alternatively, I'll see you guys here in December, when the players have quit yet again and we are in the bottom-3 screaming for our new manager to go bc he's incompetent, whinging about how we need to go back to hoofball despite the fact that good teams don't play that way in 2018 and it wholly stopped working for us, and lamenting how Vardy can't get any service when the reality is Vardy is a limited striker who is unable to drift back to facilitate the attack when he is neutralized by a deep line. BUT THEY WON THE LEAGUE!!! people will shout, clinging to the past until their hands are scored and bloody, and the players will nod along, "we did win the league, we aren't the problem" they'll say, when the fact is they are everything wrong with the f'ing club at this point.

[l444ry]

A rather quaint analysis. An opinion without much substance when all is said and done. Think there is more to it than players just downing tools.

[The Doctor]

Just now, l444ry said:

A rather quaint analysis. An opinion without much substance when all is said and done. Think there is more to it than players just downing tools.

Once and maybe you're right. Claudio, maybe he lost it when Kante left and his replacement plan of Mendy got crocked after 55 minutes, and trying everything to find another solution resulted in disjointed tactics making the players look lost. Shakespeare, maybe he lost his bottle after getting thumped by Spurs and couldn't work out how to set up well in defence without neutering us going forward. Puel, maybe his vision isn't viable with the players we have and lacks a plan B to break down sides. But, we're looking incredibly likely for a third sacking in 14 months, and each one will have been preceded by numerous players playing at 70% intensity at best. Buck has to start resting with them 

[l444ry]

5 minutes ago, The Doctor said:

Once and maybe you're right. Claudio, maybe he lost it when Kante left and his replacement plan of Mendy got crocked after 55 minutes, and trying everything to find another solution resulted in disjointed tactics making the players look lost. Shakespeare, maybe he lost his bottle after getting thumped by Spurs and couldn't work out how to set up well in defence without neutering us going forward. Puel, maybe his vision isn't viable with the players we have and lacks a plan B to break down sides. But, we're looking incredibly likely for a third sacking in 14 months, and each one will have been preceded by numerous players playing at 70% intensity at best. Buck has to start resting with them 

Don't buy into that simplistic argument myself. Claudio was let down for sure, maybe Shakespeare undermined him, who knows? As for Shakespeare and Puel, they simply are/were not up to the mark. We have enough pros on the books. They ain't all quitters.

[Stephen Wood]

without Fuchs we have lacked somebody with real bottle

[Kendal Fox]

20 hours ago, vanity said:

They quit on Claudio. They quit on Shakey. Now they've quit on Puel. They would quit on f'ing Pep if he was delusional enough to come here. 

 

We have been watching our players not make the effort for the last two seasons. Now their attitude is contaminating Ndidi and Maguire. The only solution that makes any sense is to send the older players who dominate the locker room packing. We need to clear a good 75% of the old guard, players like Morgan, Mahrez, Simpson, Huth, Albrighton, Shinji, Fuchs, Benny, etc.. Players don't need to be seeing time on the pitch to be toxic in the locker room. I am sure there are some good apples in this group, but the squad is stale. It needs fresh blood. It is no surprise that the only players going hard were the young players. The veterans were simply going through the motions.

 

The only hope for this team being a top-half Prem team again is for there to be a firesale. We f'd up keeping Mahrez, and in retrospect, Puel f'd up by letting him right back in the team. Our record against the bottom 13 teams in the league is a f'ing joke since Mahrez walked. The players do not give the effort and lose points to inferior sides just about every week now. Fine, Puel can go, but he is not the main problem. It is time to set the nostalgia aside and put the players from 2015-2016 where they belong -- in the past. 

 

Alternatively, I'll see you guys here in December, when the players have quit yet again and we are in the bottom-3 screaming for our new manager to go bc he's incompetent, whinging about how we need to go back to hoofball despite the fact that good teams don't play that way in 2018 and it wholly stopped working for us, and lamenting how Vardy can't get any service when the reality is Vardy is a limited striker who is unable to drift back to facilitate the attack when he is neutralized by a deep line. BUT THEY WON THE LEAGUE!!! people will shout, clinging to the past until their hands are scored and bloody, and the players will nod along, "we did win the league, we aren't the problem" they'll say, when the fact is they are everything wrong with the f'ing club at this point.

I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. But I'm still amazed at the way the Mahrez/Man City fiasco has largely been downplayed.

 

Removing himself from the squad, just before the away match vs Everton was nothing short of disgraceful and it's no surprise that our form took a massive downturn from that point on. He won the PL with us yet didn't have the honour or integrity to say "You know what, Man City have swooped in for me at the 11th hour but the right thing to do is honour my contract, at least until the Summer...". That's all he had to do, but no, the guy instead showed a very unlikeable, treacherous nature.

 

So for me, a big part of our abysmal form is rooted firmly in Mahrez's behaviour. Just look at where we were before the bid from Man City - a win at Everton and we would have been very close to Arsenal who went on and lost several matches around the same period... Who knows what might have happened for us then...Alas, it's no coincidence to me.

 

Have the players solely downed tools because of Puel? Or have some of them done it in protest of Mahrez? I'd say the latter is a big factor.

Edited 29 April 2018 by Kendal Fox

[brucey]

I don't believe they are quitters, but they certainly lack the motivation to start.

[The Doctor]

1 minute ago, l444ry said:

Don't buy into that simplistic argument myself. Claudio was let down for sure, maybe Shakespeare undermined him, who knows? As for Shakespeare and Puel, they simply are/were not up to the mark. We have enough pros on the books. They ain't all quitters.

They don't all need to be quitters, we won the title with everyone playing at the cliched 110%. But, all it takes is one or two to start easing off and it weakens the side. That said, the last couple of games how many players can honestly say they've left everything on the pitch? 

[cityfanlee23]

20 minutes ago, l444ry said:

A rather quaint analysis. An opinion without much substance when all is said and done. Think there is more to it than players just downing tools.

Definitely is down to much more than that, however it is not a coincidence is it? Our players seem to be a bunch of ****ing babies when it comes down to it.

[l444ry]

1 minute ago, The Doctor said:

They don't all need to be quitters, we won the title with everyone playing at the cliched 110%. But, all it takes is one or two to start easing off and it weakens the side. That said, the last couple of games how many players can honestly say they've left everything on the pitch? 

I accept that point. Confidence loss, lack of motivation along with our snails pace style of play a more likely the reasons for the current situation.

[sm1]

6 minutes ago, Kendal Fox said:

I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. But I'm still amazed at the way the Mahrez/Man City fiasco has largely been downplayed.

 

Removing himself from the squad, just before the away match vs Everton was nothing short of disgraceful and it's no surprise that our form took a massive downturn from that point on. He won the PL with us yet didn't have the honour or integrity to say "You know what, Man City have swooped in for me at the 11th hour but the right thing to do is honour my contract, at least until the Summer...". That's all he had to do, but no, the guy instead showed a very unlikeable, treacherous nature.

 

So for me, a big part of our abysmal form is rooted firmly in Mahrez's behaviour. Just look at where we were before the bid from Man City - a win at Everton and we would have been very close to Arsenal who went on and lost several matches around the same period... No coincidence to me. Have the players soley downed tools because of Puel? Or have some of them done it in protest of Mahrez? I'd say the latter is a big factor.

Interesting angle. Our form has definitely fell off a cliff after the Mahrez fiasco.

[vanity]

32 minutes ago, l444ry said:

A rather quaint analysis. An opinion without much substance when all is said and done. Think there is more to it than players just downing tools.

Bless your heart. Why don't you take a look at my past posts for analysis, I offer more than 99% of posters.

[Wasyls Pec Deck]

14 minutes ago, l444ry said:

Don't buy into that simplistic argument myself. Claudio was let down for sure, maybe Shakespeare undermined him, who knows? As for Shakespeare and Puel, they simply are/were not up to the mark. We have enough pros on the books. They ain't all quitters.

I heard Chris Powell in an interview after Ranieri was fired. He said Shakey told him that CR just wasn’t getting a reaction out of the players anymore, so it’s entirely possible Shakey dug the knife in. Fair play, there is no sentiment in getting relegated.

 

I’ve been watching the body language and communication between Puel and Appleton. I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems very distanced and stand-off ish compared to what it used to be. If there is an issue there, then there needs to be a change ASAP. 

[deep blue]

I agree that the Mahrez effect has been largely ignored, but it has been compounded by the manager's insistence on selecting him, over players such as Diabate, when he has been playing with no conviction or commitment for weeks.

[vanity]

19 minutes ago, Kendal Fox said:

I'm inclined to agree with much of what you say. But I'm still amazed at the way the Mahrez/Man City fiasco has largely been downplayed.

 

Removing himself from the squad, just before the away match vs Everton was nothing short of disgraceful and it's no surprise that our form took a massive downturn from that point on. He won the PL with us yet didn't have the honour or integrity to say "You know what, Man City have swooped in for me at the 11th hour but the right thing to do is honour my contract, at least until the Summer...". That's all he had to do, but no, the guy instead showed a very unlikeable, treacherous nature.

 

So for me, a big part of our abysmal form is rooted firmly in Mahrez's behaviour. Just look at where we were before the bid from Man City - a win at Everton and we would have been very close to Arsenal who went on and lost several matches around the same period... No coincidence to me. Have the players soley downed tools because of Puel? Or have some of them done it in protest of Mahrez? I'd say the latter is a big factor.

Yes. Yes. Yes.

 

I'm going to wuote myself here: Riyad's walkabout was the turning point in our season. Before that, we had 35 points in 24 games, good for 1.45 points per fixture on average. That works out to 55.1 points in a season. However, in the ten games since Riyad went on strike, we've managed only 11 points in 10 games, which is 1.1 points per fixture on average. That works out to 41.8 points in a season. Enormous difference. 

 

If we look deeper, it is worth noting that our performance against sides outside the top-6 has declined drastically. Before Riyad's strike, we were averaging 1.93 points per match against the bottom-13 ("b-13"). (we had 8 wins, 5 draws, and 2 losses). But after the strike, we have 2 wins, 4 draws, and 3 losses against non-top-6 sides, which is 1.11 points per game. That is a difference of .82 points per game, which would leave us with 21 points fewer over the course of a season. We were chugging along great with Puel, then Riyad went AWOL, then the team never got right. 

 

Riyad's one of our best players, but we will have the money to sign an excellent set of replacements. We need players on the field who want to be here. 

•  

[ZeGuy]

9 minutes ago, sm1 said:

Interesting angle. Our form has definitely fell off a cliff after the Mahrez fiasco.

I always thought that keeping Mahrez in january would be a pyrrhic victory and that it would bite us back in the long term. He should have been sold.

[The Wizard]

Hey...noooo..Foxes Never Quit...!... Well unless the dressing room wanna... So don't say such things...! #Spineless

[Tuna]

Did our players give up on the managers? Do we have a toxic element in the dressing room? Do we have players who think they are bigger than the club?

 

Or is all it just a convenient narrative invented by Journalists who were unhappy that our owners ruined the fairy-tale by sacking Claudio? 

 

 

[l444ry]

4 minutes ago, bmouth_fox said:

I heard Chris Powell in an interview after Ranieri was fired. He said Shakey told him that CR just wasn’t getting a reaction out of the players anymore, so it’s entirely possible Shakey dug the knife in. Fair play, there is no sentiment in getting relegated.

 

I’ve been watching the body language and communication between Puel and Appleton. I don’t know if it’s just me, but it seems very distanced and stand-off ish compared to what it used to be. If there is an issue there, then there needs to be a change ASAP. 

This is a brilliant point. I sit behind the dugout area and watch the coaching staff closely. Agree 100% that something seems different.

[chicagofox]

The problem right now is the damn manager. His selections and tactics are why we are on a horrendous run. Some players are well beyond their best and others will never be as good as we hoped. But he is the twat who selects them, manages them, and decides how they should play. It’s a fallacy to think that these players are unmanageable. A good manager could do very well with this squad. And Puel is not even a good manager ( and I’m referencing now, not anything he may have achieved earlier in his career).

[Walshie is God]

My opinion is that they players are realists, they know they can't play puels style 

[vanity]

21 minutes ago, brucey said:

I don't believe they are quitters, but they certainly lack the motivation to start.

I don't want them to be, but there is no other explanation that makes sense. 

 

1 minute ago, Tuna said:

Did our players give up on the managers? Do we have a toxic element in the dressing room? Do we have players who think they are bigger than the club?

 

Or is all it just a convenient narrative invented by Journalists who were unhappy that our owners ruined the fairy-tale by sacking Claudio? 

 

 

How many times do we have to watch our players not play hard before we admit they aren't playing hard?

 

3 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

I always thought that keeping Mahrez in january would be a pyrrhic victory and that it would bite us back in the long term. He should have been sold.

Yes, and Puel putting him right back in the way he did... I understand he was in an awful spot, but the players who were at practice and battling, to see the guy who quit on them right back in as a starter, that certainly didn't win their respect. FFS, the numbers after that are astonishing.

[esoog]

Even id quit as a player under Claude,  last game he brings on two kids as subs when we were clearly trying to win the freaking game. 

[fleckneymike]

I don’t buy the players ‘quit’ line. They didn’t ‘quit’ on Pearson yet we were bottom of the league. They didn’t quit when Pearson was sacked. 

 

They look poor when they’re poorly lead. They look lethargic when told not to press. They look ponderous in possession when told to build from the back. 

 

This may not be the squad Puel wants but it’s the squad he’s got. If he’s not flexible/adaptable enough to adjust his style to suit the players he has then that doesn’t bode well for the future. 

[AyewJoking]

7 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

I always thought that keeping Mahrez in january would be a pyrrhic victory and that it would bite us back in the long term. He should have been sold.

Only bid was late late late from man city.

Our negotiation was reasonable but there just wasnt enough time left.