Helicopter has landed

[daddylonglegs]

7 minutes ago, Ted Maul said:

Oh yeah, absolutely. I'm still pissed off about it, but it's down to our own failings- we just have to say fair play to Burnley for taking their chance.

Yep completely agree.

 

You've just described it perfectly. We had every chance to get it done but didn't. 

[ZeGuy]

13 minutes ago, STUHILL said:

It shows our ambition if nothing else. We have very rich owners and want to be the top of 'best of the rest in 6th/7th' and potentially even challenging the bigger boys eventually!

 

I think with what happened with Puel at Southampton, we are seeing exactly why they made what many thought was a strange decision. The writing was on the wall then and I know you could argue look at Saints now, but I can't help think that he is partly responsible for their downfall and I am now concerned that he is having a damaging, negative impact on this team and it may take a while to correct if we leave it too long to make a change.

 

I am not demanding we finish 6th every season and we should sack every manager who doesn't get us that, but I do want to have a manager in charge where things look to be improving or we can at least see sense in most of his decisions, whether or not they always work or not.  

 

 

We might have the money and the "ambition" but we certainly don't have the players to be the best of the rest at the moment. Let's be realistic here bar Vardy, Maguire and Ndidi the rest is bang average. Mahrez is gone and we're seeing since the last 4-5 games how it looks like without him. We have no playmaker, no good fullbacks, soon no manager and the midfield is hit and miss. So how are you going to challenge the big boys or even be the best of the rest?

 

Should we fail to attract some good players this summer transfer, next season is relegation battle. Too much people are seeing the actual team much bigger than it really is.

Edited 1 May 2018 by ZeGuy

[STUHILL]

4 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

We might have the money and the "ambition" but we certainly don't have the players to be the best of the rest at the moment. Let's be realistic here bar Vardy, Maguire and Ndidi the rest is bang average. Mahrez is gone and we're seeing since the last 4-5 games how it looks like without him. We have no playmaker, no good fullbacks, soon no manager and the midfield is hit and miss. So how are you going to challenge the big boys or even be the best of the rest?

 

Should we fail to attract some good players this summer transfer, next season is relegation battle. Too much people are seeing the actual team much bigger than it really is.

Well the current best of the rest are Burnley, and look at the squad they have done it with!

 

Yes, we need a higher calibre of player to  try cement our place as a regular "best of the rest" and (maybe!!) challenge the bigger boys but right now, we really should be the best of the rest and should have been comfortably, if our form in the last 18 games hadn't been so woeful. 

 

There is nothing wrong with having ambitions, whether you are currently able to deliver them or not. The idea is to build towards reaching those ambitions and I don't feel confident in Puel to deliver them in the medium or long-term. He is stubborn, uninspiring and is making decisions that go against common sense.

 

[oadby.fox]

33 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

We might have the money and the "ambition" but we certainly don't have the players to be the best of the rest at the moment. Let's be realistic here bar Vardy, Maguire and Ndidi the rest is bang average. Mahrez is gone and we're seeing since the last 4-5 games how it looks like without him. We have no playmaker, no good fullbacks, soon no manager and the midfield is hit and miss. So how are you going to challenge the big boys or even be the best of the rest?

 

Should we fail to attract some good players this summer transfer, next season is relegation battle. Too much people are seeing the actual team much bigger than it really is.

I agree that improvements are needed, and have been needed in a number of key areas since the title win (RB, quality CB, quality midfielder and perhaps another keeper to challenge Kasper or reliable second striker) but we've also seen that this team is capable of putting in decent performances. The question for me is then, what was the difference between our better performances this season and the utterly atrocious ones? Do you not think the tactical approaches or team selection (players in wrong positions, or including Mahrez too quickly after the strop, dropping Dragovic) had any effect on the results, or was it purely because the players just decided not to turn up? We know that if they are capable of putting in decent performances against Chelsea, Spurs, Southampton etc and even Arsenal/Liverpool (which I think were undeserved losses) then they must also have the "quality" to play better than they did against Newcastle, Burnley or Southampton in the reverse fixture. 

 

If you believe that we don't currently have the players at our disposal to, for instance, not lose 3-0 to Palace at home whilst chasing Europa, or that because of the dire quality within the squad we are only able to play dull, boring, turgid and predictably ineffective football, then by your lights, you should reason that the manager is actually overachieving with the squad he has available. 

 

[ZeGuy]

6 minutes ago, oadby.fox said:

I agree that improvements are needed, and have been needed in a number of key areas since the title win (RB, quality CB, quality midfielder and perhaps another keeper to challenge Kasper or reliable second striker) but we've also seen that this team is capable of putting in decent performances. The question for me is then, what was the difference between our better performances this season and the utterly atrocious ones? Do you not think the tactical approaches or team selection (players in wrong positions, or including Mahrez too quickly after the strop, dropping Dragovic) had any effect on the results, or was it purely because the players just decided not to turn up? We know that if they are capable of putting in decent performances against Chelsea, Spurs, Southampton etc and even Arsenal/Liverpool (which I think were undeserved losses) then they must also have the "quality" to play better than they did against Newcastle, Burnley or Southampton in the reverse fixture. 

 

If you believe that we don't currently have the players at our disposal to, for instance, not lose 3-0 to Palace at home whilst chasing Europa, or that because of the dire quality within the squad we are only able to play dull, boring, turgid and predictably ineffective football, then by your lights, you should reason that the manager is actually overachieving with the squad he has available. 

 

Yesm Puel made mistakes, persisting with James and dropping Dragovic being some of the biggest. And in all probability, he's not going to get away with it. But we still don't have players who consistently deliver so we were bound to have good games followed by shit ones. Add to that the fact that we're trying to evolve to a new style of play and it was inevitable that we'd throw away games.

 

Chelsea, Spurs, Southampton performance etc were largely due to the fact that Mahrez was flying. It is no coincidence that our poor run began after the former's tantrum in january. He and Vardy were carrying this team and that prevents people to see how actually average this team is. To be completely fair Iborra's game sinked more and less at the same, he was then replaced by James and our midfield misfired since then.

 

Really boring, turgid football I saw under Shakespeare and Ranieri II. I consider the one dimensional counter-attacking style some here are still craving for as dead and buried. We don't have the midfield for it and all the other teams know the drill. For all its short-comings, what I appreciated under Puel is to see the team actually trying to string more than two passes together and to play football. 

 

People are saying we should go back to the basics, the famous direct football with which we won the league (read: lump it to Vardy as soon as possible) ,forgetting that most of the players suited for this style won't be there next season. We'll see then what happens.

[ZeGuy]

1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

Well the current best of the rest are Burnley, and look at the squad they have done it with!

 

Yes, we need a higher calibre of player to  try cement our place as a regular "best of the rest" and (maybe!!) challenge the bigger boys but right now, we really should be the best of the rest and should have been comfortably, if our form in the last 18 games hadn't been so woeful. 

 

There is nothing wrong with having ambitions, whether you are currently able to deliver them or not. The idea is to build towards reaching those ambitions and I don't feel confident in Puel to deliver them in the medium or long-term. He is stubborn, uninspiring and is making decisions that go against common sense.

 

Burnley are overachieving and they'll soon get back to their natural place next season. Their footbal is frankly not really great to watch too.

 

The 7th place goes to Everton next season if they can get a decent manager, they have enough quality in their squad. I'm waiting for the summer to see if the club actually has a plan or we're going to follow the same path until we find ourselves in the Championship.

[lancyclaret]

Well, one of your heroes Christian Fuchs today is urging you to STICK with Puel and give him time (The Sun).

[Kitchandro]

2 minutes ago, lancyclaret said:

Well, one of your heroes Christian Fuchs today is urging you to STICK with Puel and give him time (The Sun).

Yeh he isn’t paying to watch us so I think we’ll ignore what he says.

 

Cheers though.

[Kitchandro]

1 hour ago, ZeGuy said:

We might have the money and the "ambition" but we certainly don't have the players to be the best of the rest at the moment. Let's be realistic here bar Vardy, Maguire and Ndidi the rest is bang average. Mahrez is gone and we're seeing since the last 4-5 games how it looks like without him. We have no playmaker, no good fullbacks, soon no manager and the midfield is hit and miss. So how are you going to challenge the big boys or even be the best of the rest?

 

Should we fail to attract some good players this summer transfer, next season is relegation battle. Too much people are seeing the actual team much bigger than it really is.

Compared to the rest of the league our playing staff is above average and well capable of pushing Arsenal for 6th the way they have been playing.

 

That’s besides the point of course, the reason for having ambition is ambition itself. I don’t care where we finish, but I want to watch a team that looks like it’s trying to go places.

 

Under Puel we look like we are trying (and failing) to keep clean sheets and as a result he is telling the players not to believe that they can be better than that.

[ZeGuy]

2 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Compared to the rest of the league our playing staff is above average and well capable of pushing Arsenal for 6th the way they have been playing.

 

That’s besides the point of course, the reason for having ambition is ambition itself. I don’t care where we finish, but I want to watch a team that looks like it’s trying to go places.

 

Under Puel we look like we are trying (and failing) to keep clean sheets and as a result he is telling the players not to believe that they can be better than that.

We're currently nowhere near the top 6, even with a limping Arsenal and with or without Puel. 7th could have been a realistic target this season if Mahrez didn't throw his toys but anything else is wishful thinking. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.

 

I have nothing against ambition. To the contrary. I do however take time as an essential factor and try to put some perspective between what we currently have and what is objectively achievable.

 

Under Puel we're learning to do something with ball other than treat it like a grenade and lump it as far as possible. That makes the players a bit better at their job, I think.

[AjcW]

25 minutes ago, Kitchandro said:

Compared to the rest of the league our playing staff is above average and well capable of pushing Arsenal for 6th the way they have been playing.

 

That’s besides the point of course, the reason for having ambition is ambition itself. I don’t care where we finish, but I want to watch a team that looks like it’s trying to go places.

 

Under Puel we look like we are trying (and failing) to keep clean sheets and as a result he is telling the players not to believe that they can be better than that.

I'd debate this a little

 

Of our 'stars' Mahrez packed in weeks ago and Vardy is trying not to get injured.

 

We have a goalkeeper who has an opinion of himself that is far higher than it should be, i'd put him in the bottom ten of Premier League keepers currently

We have a right back who can't attack, a centre back and captain who needs to be told to leave and a left back who can't defend

 

Without Iborra we've looked spineless in Midfield as Wilf has had to try and do about three jobs. In Silva we have someone who is essentially recovering from half a season off, so we can't rely on him.

 

Gray who I've tried to defend a million times is driving me crazy at the minute and I can't help but think he might be best somewhere else.

 

Honestly, where is the above average? We've recruited horrendously and now we're suffering for it. 

As much as Burnley might not be the best example, why did we suddenly become too snobby to sign top quality championship players? It's working fine for them. 

I think as beautiful as the league win was it's damaged the fans, media, recruitment team and players perception of what we really are and what we will be for the next few seasons, a capable mid table Premier League side who have a cup run or two. 

Edited 1 May 2018 by AjcW

[STUHILL]

3 minutes ago, ZeGuy said:

We're currently nowhere near the top 6, even with a limping Arsenal and with or without Puel. 7th could have been a realistic target this season if Mahrez didn't throw his toys but anything else is wishful thinking. Anyone who thinks otherwise needs a reality check.

 

I have nothing against ambition. To the contrary. I do however take time as an essential factor and try to put some perspective between what we currently have and what is objectively achievable.

 

Under Puel we're learning to do something with ball other than treat it like a grenade and lump it as far as possible. That makes the players a bit better at their job, I think.

I think the argument people are suggesting is that we should be near the top 6 this season, and the manager has a lot to answer to why we are not! You can say we don't have the players, and that's totally accurate when considering a consistent push for top 6 season on season, but right now, this season, we have better players than Burnley and arguable any other team below Arsenal, so we should be doing better. 

 

I would understand your point more if we didn't have the squad capable of pushing Arsenal this season, but we do! Therefore, I look at the Manager to why that is not happening. Yes there are other factors to consider and I do think that a number of players have one eye on the World Cup and so intensity may have dropped, but we are currently going backwards under Puel and I am not see any signs of that stopping! 5-0 to Palace!! Awful. 

 

I am all for patience and building for the future where we have a squad and style where sustained top 7-8 finishes hopefully become the norm, and I'd even take a few 14th/15th place finishes as long as we could see clear progression in terms of our squad and style. We are seeing neither right now. No player has improved under Puel. Think about that for a minute - Not one player has improved since he has been here!

 

The style although different, is ineffective. It's too easy to suggest that because we keep the ball better now, that that is progression. Any team can hold the ball at the back and play a slow and safe style like we are seeing right now. Don't be fooled into thinking that is progression.

 

[TiffToff88]

46 minutes ago, lancyclaret said:

Well, one of your heroes Christian Fuchs today is urging you to STICK with Puel and give him time (The Sun).

Well he's hardly gonna bad mouth his own manager to a national newspaper is he

[Guest Foxin_mad]

I genuinely don't mind if we are getting beaten by better teams. Its the absolute crap that is being served up no effort, no skill, no attempt to win a match.

 

If we get beaten by a better side then fine but that Palace game we didn't even turn up. 

[jumbo747]

1 hour ago, lancyclaret said:

Well, one of your heroes Christian Fuchs today is urging you to STICK with Puel and give him time (The Sun).

So I wonder if he's any time left on his contract, say about 12 months ? And I wonder who his current manager is ?

[MC Prussian]

It's all fine and dandy to claim we could've caught Arsenal and secured 6th spot in the end, but we haven't.

Burnley are still in a great position to overtake them, which would be their best top division result in decades.

 

Three main factors have come together:

Recruitment

-Lots of money thrown at players that haven't had the desired effect for various reasons (above all, Musa, Slimani, Iheanacho, Mendy, followed by Zieler, Jakupovic, Kapustka - that's £90m or more pretty much gone right there)

- The Silva debacle last summer (£22m, missing an entire half of a season, so that's now the better part of more than £101m down the drains)

- Not addressing a more organic transition from ditching our old Championship guard to more younger, hungrier, fresher players, as well as our needs on the flanks (midfield and defense) and in central midfield properly

- Plus a managerial history that is a bit laughable (three managers in two/three years)

 

I'd expect the owners asking our recruitment team (Rudkin, Macia, et al.) a couple of really interesting and necessary questions sooner than later.

 

Player identity

We also lack some more identifcation figures on the pitch. Apart from Vardy and Schmeichel, who tend to be on the vocal side, Morgan is not worth the captaincy any more and past it, and Albrighton just too quiet.

Coupled with the scattergun transfer approach mentioned above, we've seemingly amassed a plethora of foreign players fans can't identify with that much anymore. Since the link between Vardy and Okazaki has been broken, we've not managed to replace that and a lot of positive energy has been lost. I don't sense a team at work, it's a collection of talented individuals, all pulling in a slightly different direction.

 

The club philosophy

Fans and club operate on separate levels and instead of using the momentum after our title win, both sides have let it slide, with the enthusiasm pretty much gone. Results in the past five months have done the rest. Personally, I don't feel connected to the club as I used to be, there was a great bond and symbiosis in the period between the League One season, our last Championship season and 2015-16 (maybe stretching further to the Champions League matches). Our Social Media following has increased by a factor of fifteen in the last three years, and we don't seem to know how to handle it.

My hope here is that alongside the stadium expansion, the club also look at how to improve the matchday experience on the whole (there are already suggestions galore in the respective thread).

 

January transfer window

Would the real Riyad Mahrez please step up... Did his best to piss pretty much everyone off, and alongside an uninspiring manager with a dubious history in the PL one of the main reasons our second half of this season has been one massive letdown ever since. Puel unable to get the best out of him any longer and Mahrez simply couldn't be bothered anymore.

One of the best players ever to be at this club, but with motivational issues and completely ill-advised. I'll always respect him as a player, but I'm not sure whether I'll shed a tear when he's gone. The longer he stays, the more damage he's doing to this club.

 

We've had it all on a silver platter and look what we've made of it. I know, hindsight's 20/20, but it's rather embarrassing how we've failed in so many areas simultaneously in such a short period of time. The league title doesn't seem to have done us much of a favour ever since, the success came too quick, too early and we just can't cope with it.

 

I also know we're not the only "average" Premier League club, others face similar construction sites. But what do I care about them? LCFC is the best club in the world, and we better make sure we find back to the qualities that made this club so worthwhile following in the first place. Identity, trying to use the underdog tag in a modified way and relying on fighting spirit and togetherness.

 

We need unity - when right now, we're a bit like a broken porcelain vase. Where's the glue?

Edited 1 May 2018 by MC Prussian

[STUHILL]

The only reason I can see the owners are considering keeping Puel, is that they are impressed by his plans for the summer window. 

 

We were all a bit surprised when he got the job in the first place and it was leaked that the owners were somewhat wowed by the attention to detail and ideas on how he planned to improve us. 

 

Obviously they will now be suspicious that he is able to deliver that, but I do wonder whether he has big plans for this summer, i.e a clear out or plans to replace and demote players such as Wes, Simpson and Albrighton etc to the "bench". 

 

That is my one hope if we do persist with him. The lack of activity in the January window and his insistence on starting players like Wes over Dragovic, makes me doubt all this of course, but I'm trying to soften the blow in my mind, if he does indeed stay in charge! 

[WigstonWanderer]

1 hour ago, ZeGuy said:

Yesm Puel made mistakes, persisting with James and dropping Dragovic being some of the biggest. And in all probability, he's not going to get away with it. But we still don't have players who consistently deliver so we were bound to have good games followed by shit ones. Add to that the fact that we're trying to evolve to a new style of play and it was inevitable that we'd throw away games.

 

Chelsea, Spurs, Southampton performance etc were largely due to the fact that Mahrez was flying. It is no coincidence that our poor run began after the former's tantrum in january. He and Vardy were carrying this team and that prevents people to see how actually average this team is. To be completely fair Iborra's game sinked more and less at the same, he was then replaced by James and our midfield misfired since then.

 

Really boring, turgid football I saw under Shakespeare and Ranieri II. I consider the one dimensional counter-attacking style some here are still craving for as dead and buried. We don't have the midfield for it and all the other teams know the drill. For all its short-comings, what I appreciated under Puel is to see the team actually trying to string more than two passes together and to play football. 

 

People are saying we should go back to the basics, the famous direct football with which we won the league (read: lump it to Vardy as soon as possible) ,forgetting that most of the players suited for this style won't be there next season. We'll see then what happens.

Am I the only one who remembers the title winning season different to this? Perhaps my memory is not what it was, but I’m sure I remember some wonderful football, a thousand miles from from the “lump it forward” caricature it became later.

[notnow john]

6 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Am I the only one who remembers the title winning season different to this? Perhaps my memory is not what it was, but I’m sure I remember some wonderful football, a thousand miles from from the “lump it forward” caricature it became later.

No you're spot on.

Some clowns want to rewrite history to suit their narrative!

[Mike Oxlong]

17 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Am I the only one who remembers the title winning season different to this? Perhaps my memory is not what it was, but I’m sure I remember some wonderful football, a thousand miles from from the “lump it forward” caricature it became later.

 

Your’re right. It was far from hoofball 

 

Fast, direct, incisive football

 

We tan at teams and passed through teams before they had time to set up to defend and I remember there being many plaudits from opposition fans about how good we were to watch.

 

We didn’t just win the title, we won it with style and that made it even better. 

Edited 1 May 2018 by Mike Oxlong

[Mike Oxlong]

Double post 

Edited 1 May 2018 by Mike Oxlong

[ZeGuy]

29 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Am I the only one who remembers the title winning season different to this? Perhaps my memory is not what it was, but I’m sure I remember some wonderful football, a thousand miles from from the “lump it forward” caricature it became later.

Back then we had The Best DM in The World. Since then it has been lump it to Vardy or Mahrez from the back four.

[The_77]

16 minutes ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

Your’re right. It was far from hoofball 

 

Fast, direct, incisive football

 

We tan at teams and passed through teams before they had time to set up to defend and I remember there being many plaudits from opposition fans about how good we were to watch.

 

We didn’t just win the title, we won it with style and that made it even better. 

Don't get me wrong, we certainly hoofed the ball quite a bit and the stats show this; however, we were ruthless in converting turnovers into chances quickly, which is the most efficient way to score. It's a very expensive proposition to get into a possession battle with the big clubs-- until we're one of them (and will that ever really happen?), we have to understand the types of styles and investments that will give us the most bang for the buck. Atletico Madrid may never have the budget of a Barca or Real but they're always competing in La Liga (and Europe) because, on their day, they can defend and counter as good as anyone.

[lifted*fox]

moved. 

Edited 1 May 2018 by lifted*fox
moved.

[ge12]

2 hours ago, WigstonWanderer said:

Am I the only one who remembers the title winning season different to this? Perhaps my memory is not what it was, but I’m sure I remember some wonderful football, a thousand miles from from the “lump it forward” caricature it became later.

It is without doubt being exaggerated by some, as you say this is what it turned into the following season but it was not how we won the league, we may have played more long passes than most but a long pass does not equate to a ‘lump forward’.

 

2 hours ago, Mike Oxlong said:

 

Your’re right. It was far from hoofball 

 

Fast, direct, incisive football

 

We tan at teams and passed through teams before they had time to set up to defend and I remember there being many plaudits from opposition fans about how good we were to watch.

 

We didn’t just win the title, we won it with style and that made it even better. 

I remember us playing this way for 3 quarters of the season, by the time teams started to really respect us and change their game plan to counter ours we had so much momentum and belief in ourselves that we were always able to find a way to score.

 

Without Kante and that momentum/belief behind us we had to find a different way to play, it was the perfect game plan for that time but now we don’t have the luxury of teams letting us manage the game in this way as most teams aside from the top 6 will come to the King Power and happily leave with a point. I also don’t think that at the moment our defence is good enough for us to play this way as they couldn't withstand the pressure of conceding 65% possession without giving up a goal or 2.

 

I am not excusing recent performances as they have been dire, and as much as I hate to see us as one of those teams who will be changing manager every 6 months I think it needs to be time for Puel to go, but I do understand the notion of finding an alternative way of playing.