Ninth

[turtmcfly]

On 15/05/2018 at 10:08, NotTheMarketLeader said:

Making up your mind when the bloke has had over 35 games, isn’t an issue for me! 

 

Im not sitting here scared to have an opinion; it’s only an Internet forum ffs.

 

I said in January he wasn’t up to much and we’d do well to win a game here or there after his handling of Mahrez.

 

If, perish the thought, we do keep him and turns out to be a world beater I will say I was wrong. 

 

I’ll say again before beating a side with 10 men his record was worse than Shakes? Not sure exactly but come on...

 

My assessment is that these last two games he chucked out his bullshit one shot on target a game possession style and just said ‘go and play’. 

 

‘Philosophy’ totally out of the window.

 

It was shit or bust for him, and it may have worked for him but will he really change his persona and football style at his age? 

 

Even if he does, it just shows what  a useless **** he’s been. We’ve know for years we are better with a pacey, high tempo game with the players we have.

 

I fear the hierarchy have no idea what they are doing as evidenced by the last two appointments, so they will probably keep him, and we will lose our best players because they know he’s not got what it takes.

 

?

 

 

Christ.

 

Did you notice about the way the opposition approached the last two games,versus the previous dozen? 

 

Have you noticed that other teams have spotted the way we prefer to play, and many of them set up to specifically negate it (especially at the KP)?

 

Have you noticed three managers on the trot have found it very difficult to get this squad to look anything better than workmanlike when faced with a team who refuse to let us play the way we want to?

[filbertway]

1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Christ.

 

Did you notice about the way the opposition approached the last two games,versus the previous dozen? 

 

Have you noticed that other teams have spotted the way we prefer to play, and many of them set up to specifically negate it (especially at the KP)?

 

Have you noticed three managers on the trot have found it very difficult to get this squad to look anything better than workmanlike when faced with a team who refuse to let us play the way we want to?

 

It astounds me how many people can't see this. I think a lot of people forget there are actually two teams taking part in our games.

[Grebfromgrebland]

Every year we survive in the premier league we should be grateful! 

 

Sure if we have the 7th highest wage bill and we finish 7th that means nothing has gone wrong that season. To expect a 7th place finish on the 7th highest wage bills implies you no nothing about sport and what makes any sport so great. 

 

It's the uncertainty that's makes being a supporter so great. It's the over achieving like winning the league or the top ten finishes under O'Neil and the disappointment of the below par finishes like we have experienced.

 

If you want to go on about 'oh we should be finishing here or there because we've spent x amount of money' just piss off it's boring and repetitive.

[norwichfox]

28 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Every year we survive in the premier league we should be grateful! 

 

Sure if we have the 7th highest wage bill and we finish 7th that means nothing has gone wrong that season. To expect a 7th place finish on the 7th highest wage bills implies you no nothing about sport and what makes any sport so great. 

 

It's the uncertainty that's makes being a supporter so great. It's the over achieving like winning the league or the top ten finishes under O'Neil and the disappointment of the below par finishes like we have experienced.

 

If you want to go on about 'oh we should be finishing here or there because we've spent x amount of money' just piss off it's boring and repetitive. 

[coolhandfox]

8 minutes ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Every year we survive in the premier league we should be grateful! 

 

Sure if we have the 7th highest wage bill and we finish 7th that means nothing has gone wrong that season. To expect a 7th place finish on the 7th highest wage bills implies you no nothing about sport and what makes any sport so great. 

 

It's the uncertainty that's makes being a supporter so great. It's the over achieving like winning the league or the top ten finishes under O'Neil and the disappointment of the below par finishes like we have experienced.

 

If you want to go on about 'oh we should be finishing here or there because we've spent x amount of money' just piss off it's boring and repetitive.

Be grateful for the crumbs that slip from the top table, come on what about ambition.

 

Whether you like it or not money talks, even in sport, look at Man City, there top because of one thing and one thing only, money!

 

Money that allowed them to employ the best manager and buy the best players, Real Madrid are on the verge of winning 3 Champions Leagues in a row, which again is generally down to money.......

 

Take a look at the Deloitte money league, ever  major league winner this year is in there, or that last 7 or 8 in the Champions Leagues this year are in the top 20, to imply that supporters exceptions aren't going to raise when you sit 14th in the worlds money league and have Billionaire owners is just silly.  

https://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/pages/sports-business-group/articles/deloitte-football-money-league.html

 

Supporters expectations are bound to raise, that's just life. 

 

We are no longer plucky Leicester City who had nothing, like the O'Neill days, supporters are bound to expected more.

 

I with you on the front that it mean more to win, when you aren't expected to, but for the time being that's changed a little. 

 

1 hour ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Christ.

 

Did you notice about the way the opposition approached the last two games,versus the previous dozen? 

 

Have you noticed that other teams have spotted the way we prefer to play, and many of them set up to specifically negate it (especially at the KP)?

 

Have you noticed three managers on the trot have found it very difficult to get this squad to look anything better than workmanlike when faced with a team who refuse to let us play the way we want to?

 

That's also one of the reasons they were both sacked, the job of the manager is to find a way to breakdown team that are setup in such a way. CP didn't help himself by shipping out both of his target men, Slim and Ulloa. In some of those games we put in cross after cross, corner after corner, maybe having a target man as a plan B would have helped his cause and improved results. 

 

 

 

 

[turtmcfly]

4 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

That's also one of the reasons they were both sacked, the job of the manager is to find a way to breakdown team that are setup in such a way. CP didn't help himself by shipping out both of his target men, Slim and Ulloa. In some of those games we put in cross after cross, corner after corner, maybe having a target man as a plan B would have helped his cause and improved results. 

Maybe if you're looking at sacking a third manager for failing to solve the same problem you might ponder whether the root cause lies elsewhere.

 

As for this Slim/Ulloa guff (and ignoring the fact that you have absolutely no idea how much say Puel had in them being loaned out)... it's bollocks isn't it? I mean, really 'I want to give Puel a kicking so I'll just start plucking shit from anywhere' bollocks. We have two pieces of evidence as a guide to Sim/Ulloa's potential impact vis-a-vis the latter half of our season. Firstly, what they did pre-January when playing for us and secondly what happened after they went out on loan. I do hope they put those trees back...

 

[sacreblueits442]

On 13/05/2018 at 20:25, fazzyfox said:

I believe being "best of the rest" ie 7th is very realistic year on year. Traditionally Everton wedge their dull ass into that spot, this year with their poor start it was there for the taking. What Burnley have done was unexpected but I would still have liked to finish above Everton to lay down a marker on them and repeat it next time beginning to establish ourselves as a consistent top 7/8 finisher with the respect that comes with that from attracting potential managers and signings.

 

We dare not stand still, if they sort their s**t out West Ham and Newcastle could be joining us in that ambition, Villa could come up and grow quickly too. 

 

The season was a wasted opportunity because a) Everton started slowly, b) Burnley were the team to beat for 7th and c) our squad contained Mahrez, Ndidi, Maguire, Schmeichel and Vardy which may not be the case in coming years. 

The last few days apart we also sacrificed the entertainment level.

 

To be positive, we still have the great owners, a stadium expansion to come and several good young players.

....I have always thought what is the point of Everton!!!

Year on year Moyes had them in the top eight and everyone saying how good it was that he could keep them there on a shoestring. They rarely had cup runs and did not have Europe as a distraction to disrupt there League form. 

  I can understand the calls for stability and a willingness to be top eight for a few seasons but I am not too sold on that. Unless we are progressing then we are standing still and I would rather have the excitement of pushing for fourth or  the striving to avoid the drop than the comfort and banality of mid table. I never looked at Everton with envy whether in League 1 or the Championship. I always felt if we were in the same League we would be finishing above them year on year.

  Maybe it is how this season has panned out, as I know, there are other teams out there, who would bite our hands off to be in this position but it all feels underwhelming flat.

Not too sure how many people feel this way, so could just be me!!!!! 

[coolhandfox]

1 minute ago, turtmcfly said:

Maybe if you're looking at sacking a third manager for failing to solve the same problem you might ponder whether the root cause lies elsewhere.

 

I'm sacking no-one, as that's not in my power, however having a opinion is, the root cause for me has been poor recruitment, at player and managerial level. The clubs activity in the transfer market has been poor for two summer transfer windows. They also appointed the wrong man in Craig Shakespeare, and compound it with the appointment of Puel in my view. 

 

As for this Slim/Ulloa guff (and ignoring the fact that you have absolutely no idea how much say Puel had in them being loaned out)... it's bollocks isn't it? 

 

Does using the word bollocks add weight to your agreement?

 

No-one knows for sure, however, if he want to keep them and the club went over his head, then I would be disappointed that he wasn't strong enough to clarify this in the media, a managerial yes man is no good to anyone. If he was in agreement, I find odd that he would deprive himself of a option.

 

I mean, really 'I want to give Puel a kicking so I'll just start plucking shit from anywhere' bollocks. We have two pieces of evidence as a guide to Sim/Ulloa's potential impact vis-a-vis the latter half of our season. Firstly, what they did pre-January when playing for us and secondly what happened after they went out on loan. I do hope they put those trees back...

 

Yawn, I'm not overly anti or pro Puel, but with a run of games last year Slimani achieved 7 goals and 4 assists in 1280 minutes (PL), divide those minutes by 90 and that's 7 goals, 4 assists in 14 games, this year 1 goal  and 1 assist in 241 minutes ( 2.5 games), not too shabby when you considering we were struggling for goals 

 

 

 

 

[turtmcfly]

3 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

however, if he want to keep them and the club went over his head, then I would be disappointed that he wasn't strong enough to clarify this in the media

 

Yes, always a positive outcome when a manager kicks off in the media about 'the club' (aka his bosses) going over his head.

 

 

5 minutes ago, coolhandfox said:

Yawn, I'm not overly anti or pro Puel, but with a run of games last year Slimani achieved 7 goals and 4 assists in 1280 minutes (PL), divide those minutes by 90

You almost lost me at 'Yawn' but I persevered. Then I saw 'divide those minutes by 90' and I found myself yawning too. Bottom line - it's conjecture; conjecture based on a potentially false premise, and a completely different sample set. I could equally argue it's a good job we shipped them out otherwise one of them would probably have been on the pitch instead of whoever scored the paltry number of goals we did get. 

 

[coolhandfox]

29 minutes ago, turtmcfly said:

Yes, always a positive outcome when a manager kicks off in the media about 'the club' (aka his bosses) going over his head.

He doesn't have to kick off, simple state that its wasn't a purely a football decision.

  

Quote

 

 

You almost lost me at 'Yawn' but I persevered. Then I saw 'divide those minutes by 90' and I found myself yawning too. Bottom line - it's conjecture; conjecture based on a potentially false premise, and a completely different sample set. I could equally argue it's a good job we shipped them out otherwise one of them would probably have been on the pitch instead of whoever scored the paltry number of goals we did get. 

 

Isn't all the opinions about keeping or replacing Puel conjecture as well?  

Edited 17 May 2018 by coolhandfox

[fuchsntf]

3 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Every year we survive in the premier league we should be grateful! 

 

Sure if we have the 7th highest wage bill and we finish 7th that means nothing has gone wrong that season. To expect a 7th place finish on the 7th highest wage bills implies you no nothing about sport and what makes any sport so great. 

 

It's the uncertainty that's makes being a supporter so great. It's the over achieving like winning the league or the top ten finishes under O'Neil and the disappointment of the below par finishes like we have experienced.

 

If you want to go on about 'oh we should be finishing here or there because we've spent x amount of money' just piss off it's boring and repetitive.

Nail on the head'..Post!!  So there are still wise clever, quiet dickHeads, Like myself,

Wandering and lost in the dark areas ,among our rolling Hills of our mystic, beautifull  shire.

 

Grebland..new Capital of Leicester,somewhere decent to Put my feet under the Table,

on those days I occasionally Return..  All is Not lost..      King Dick spirit is Alive

and well.

 

 

[NotTheMarketLeader]

8 hours ago, turtmcfly said:

 

Christ.

 

Did you notice about the way the opposition approached the last two games,versus the previous dozen? 

 

Have you noticed that other teams have spotted the way we prefer to play, and many of them set up to specifically negate it (especially at the KP)?

 

Have you noticed three managers on the trot have found it very difficult to get this squad to look anything better than workmanlike when faced with a team who refuse to let us play the way we want to?

What do you mean the way we want to play?

 

Puel has spent the whole season getting us to play a possession based game,

NOT the way ‘we want to play’.

Its been desperately poor, slow and ineffective. 

 

He’s the one who has chosen that style. Other teams haven’t needed to stop us on the counter attack, we don’t do that anymore, even when there are possibilities to do so prior to the last two games.

 

Puel ‘threw the baby out with the bathwater’ playing it out from the back playing one up front, even at home.

 

No tempo, no quick passing no urgency no attempt to impose ourselves on the opposing;

no pressing is another example. Teams defending the edge of their box against a pressing side do so at their peril.

 

But Puel hasn’t bothered with this very effective tactic.

 

He has done the opposing managers job for them before we’ve kicked off for the last 5 months.

 

My point is I understand we can’t hit on the break in some games, but we have not imposed ourselves and been positive proactive in ANY style with this cretin over the last 5 months with the exception of these 2 games.

 

That is his failing with a team with great attacking potential and talent.

 

His tactics have nullified our strengths.

 

I pity you if you can’t see that.

Edited 17 May 2018 by NotTheMarketLeader

[turtmcfly]

17 hours ago, NotTheMarketLeader said:

I pity you if you can’t see that

You nugget

Edited 18 May 2018 by turtmcfly

[Bayfox]

I'm going to ignore the last 2 games, as I'm firmly of the believe as are some others, that we played 2 teams, who came to play football as such, let us have space in behind, didn't sit in 2 banks of 4 and try to stop us playing. I'm sure Newcastle fans this season are delighted at staying up, but if they still have this sort of squad in 3 or 4 years will be well and truly pissed off, and won't be overly happy at still having to set up this way against the likes of us, all because expectation, a bit like our own, will increase.

 

But on the initial point, I guess a realist says, that yes, bar 1 season this is our best finish Since MON was around and it would seem pretty reasonable, have say finished, 17th, 14th and 10th over the previous seasons, getting into the top 10 would be seen as progress, then maybe like MON we had turned 1 of those cup runs into a trip to Wembley.

 

As I would suggest.

 

Man City

Man Utd

Arsenal

Spurs

Chelsea 

Liverpool

would all start the season with ambitions to finish above us.

 

Meaning 7th is about the level we can expect to aim for, although Everton may feel that they are in a position to expect to fill that spot.

 

Where I think any frustration lies this season in isolation is, Everton have been poor, Burnley have finished above us, despite not winning for about 11 games, and we just never got close to them in that period, and there has probably never been a better chance ( apart from the obvious 1) to finish above them, plus it feels like we chucked 2 shots at a cup semi final away, 1 via odd team selection and 1 via well kasper just chucking it away.

 

All in all I guess we are probably about were we would maybe expect to be, i'm sure West Ham and Newcastle etc would hope to get to a point where they challenge the top 10 on a regular basis as well, but we had one hell of a season, and maybe for some it's taking a while to come back to earth.  

 

 

[CosbehFox]

On 17/05/2018 at 09:42, turtmcfly said:

 

Christ.

 

Did you notice about the way the opposition approached the last two games,versus the previous dozen? 

 

Have you noticed that other teams have spotted the way we prefer to play, and many of them set up to specifically negate it (especially at the KP)?

 

Have you noticed three managers on the trot have found it very difficult to get this squad to look anything better than workmanlike when faced with a team who refuse to let us play the way we want to?

Well said. Our team is underrated by our fans (ie a lot don’t realise how complimentary other teams are to us) but at the same time expect us to defeat all before us. 

[Golden Fox]

 

On 17/05/2018 at 11:02, Grebfromgrebland said:

Every year we survive in the premier league we should be grateful! 

I can't believe the people on here settling for 47 points / 9th and saying we should be happy with that...

 

On the basis that after beating Watford 2-0 on 20th January we were 7th in the table with 34 points, (and having played 9/12 of our games due against the top 6), we had very valid expectations of an excellent season.

 

To break down the pre-20th Jan and post 20th Jan tables:

Non-top 6
	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Points
Pre-20th Jan	15	8	5	2	29
Post-20th Jan	11	2	4	5	10
Top 6
	Played	Won	Drawn	Lost	Points
Pre-20th Jan	9	1	2	6	5
Post-20th Jan	3	1	0	2	3

 

Before 20th Jan, we were rattling along at 2 points a game against non-top 6 teams. Had we carried on at that rate over the last 11 games, we would have collected 22 points: an extra 10 finishing on 59 points: not far off challenging Arsenal for 6th. That shows the ability of our squad this year and where our expectations were.

 

We may never know whether it was the Mahrez factor that happened at that point, the Puel factor, (or possibly management telling Puel to experiment, find out about his players and maybe not to push to hard for 7th with a view to gearing up for a big push in 18/19 without the Europa league - not that anyone would come out and admit to that) - but I think those stats show it was a wasted season.

[David Hankey]

9th position is better than the previous season which was a lot worse than the season before that. Should we be satisfied, no we should damn well not. For approximately half the season we were 8th, flirted with 7th and dropped back to 9th. We could and should easily been up at 6th, so no I for one will not accept mediocrity.

[Grebfromgrebland]

We're in the premier league that's not mediocre.

 

You need to get a grip! Mediocrity would be in the lower leagues. I wonder how long you've been a Leicester fan for these are good times!

 

If this is no good for you support someone else like man city or Barcelona but don't stink this place out.

[NewEnglandFox]

Beat Arsenal and now this? Ostriches.

[Golden Fox]

3 hours ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

We're in the premier league that's not mediocre.

 

You need to get a grip! Mediocrity would be in the lower leagues. I wonder how long you've been a Leicester fan for these are good times!

 

If this is no good for you support someone else like man city or Barcelona but don't stink this place out.

It says it all that in response to some well researched statistics, rather than trying to make counter-arguments you resort to put downs! Which is more likely to stink the place out?

 

Football is cyclical. You have good times and bad times: but you have to take each season as it comes. Each year can see you neck-a-neck with different clubs and them being the first results you look for: I remember seasons where that has been the case with the likes of Cambridge United, Tranmere, Millwall, Peterborough, MK Dons etc. but we are not in that place at the moment, so lets not pretend we are. When you have a good period, you need to make the best of it. The fact that this season we have only matched the worst MON Premier League points return doesn't seem like we are making the most of a good period.

 

This is the best platform we have ever had. The fact we are spending millions on a training ground intended to put us on a par with the very best shows where our current level of competition should be. I remember when we were about to go into administration that people were carrying buckets at the ground to try and get ever penny to save the club's very existence: for you to be quoting the past and comparing now to periods such as that as yardstick doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

 

One final point: if you view achievement through the prism of knowing where your club should finish (knowledge you can only gain from supporting a team for a long time apparently) then given that I can't remember Burnley finishing above us in over 30 years of supporting the team, surely our place in the pecking order is above Burnley, so by your measuring stick of success, does finishing below them count as good times?

[fuchsntf]

1 hour ago, Golden Fox said:

It says it all that in response to some well researched statistics, rather than trying to make counter-arguments you resort to put downs! Which is more likely to stink the place out?

 

Football is cyclical. You have good times and bad times: but you have to take each season as it comes. Each year can see you neck-a-neck with different clubs and them being the first results you look for: I remember seasons where that has been the case with the likes of Cambridge United, Tranmere, Millwall, Peterborough, MK Dons etc. but we are not in that place at the moment, so lets not pretend we are. When you have a good period, you need to make the best of it. The fact that this season we have only matched the worst MON Premier League points return doesn't seem like we are making the most of a good period.

 

This is the best platform we have ever had. The fact we are spending millions on a training ground intended to put us on a par with the very best shows where our current level of competition should be. I remember when we were about to go into administration that people were carrying buckets at the ground to try and get ever penny to save the club's very existence: for you to be quoting the past and comparing now to periods such as that as yardstick doesn't seem to make a lot of sense to me.

 

One final point: if you view achievement through the prism of knowing where your club should finish (knowledge you can only gain from supporting a team for a long time apparently) then given that I can't remember Burnley finishing above us in over 30 years of supporting the team, surely our place in the pecking order is above Burnley, so by your measuring stick of success, does finishing below them count as good times?

Just using your Post...it aint aimed or pertains anything to you you Personally...

ITS for all...

Too much analysing..for the good..for the Bad...for the Sake of it.

fuch...stats!!!

B*gger who WE should be better than.Sod using other Teams as some,intellectuel,quality

Measuring Stick, p*ss on you all who are trying to prove you are far more clever than the Next Fan.

 

This is Football....in Football nothing...Proves nothing..so far No Manager has taken a bum Club

Like ours,and have given  them 6-20yrs,consistently top 4 european Football,or even

5 Times FA Cup in 6 seasons...

You are all arguing the Toss over something thats never been.

Thats why ITS crazy running  dumbnuts,over manager,Players,Team expectations,ideas of grandeur

and entitlement .

 

We Support to dream,to Hope,to realise,to See,to Imagine,that one day we will

Achieve,once or even once again.

NoTeam since the 60s,from "the also rans" have Ruled the roost,cossetted or owned

Any 5 year Period of single Trophy success.Not cloughie,with 2 Teams,Not anybody..

And you argue every Week,pruning Your Posts to Sound Like your given experts.

 

I laugh,I aim to amuse,I never aim to be right or knowledgable of the how,the whys,and

the various "what makes" . ITS Football,its Open Game season

I can Show my Football knowledgable of Things gone in the  past.  

but Prik me with a Tarts feather ,I have No Idea how to Show any inkling of true predictive wisdom.

 

Like all of you including that tiny %,of great successfull managers,and Coaches,I am totally clueless

Of finding a 'pitch'  that will Run true,and be the Substance and wisdom of all things Football...

It really is smoke and mirrors...only viable for a good banter,,and arguing the Toss,whos playing

Well on the day and kept Form for longer periods...we've all Seen predicted favours Fall,

and vented our humour,at names unknown,to See These predicted failures rise to stardom

 

Not forgetting  Deb n Suzie Interpret Form totally differently...

So Stop pretending...Your House,Your boat,Your wife,gives you better perspectives.

Even the 'told you so and n sos',Fall dramatically on their own swords.

 

Our Most Loved pastime, our Most fanatical groups following of any skngular subject ,and then Not one

of us have any knowledgable or Show wisdom,over/of one iota of how to guarrantee success,

Not even Money has dispersed the doubts,and regularly  Cocks ITS arogant head,to Claim the throne,

It self Claims...Yet we are determined to Rumble on ,

to prove our own loyalities to the Infinitive and perpetual Contradiction that is football.

 

Enjoy the summer break.. Jesus!! Whens kick Off!!!

 

 

 

 

 

[Golden Fox]

@fuchsntf - I'm new here, but I had been under the impression this was a football forum specifically for discussing our views on football? Have I got this wrong?

 

If you feel this strongly about people posting their views about football, this looks to be an odd place for you to spend a lot of time!