Ninth

[HoustonFox]

1 minute ago, MC Prussian said:

Read my first sentence regarding Choudhury again. 

My point was Hamza was good when he came in this season, not today! I was summarising the season... 

 

Onto today... Being expected to play RB was tough. It was a weird game and so open. All that Wembley space and the fact he came in during the madness meant he didn’t really have a chance. I’ll let him off  for that, and based on Iborra’s performances recently, he gets in ahead of the Spaniard 

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, HoustonFox said:

My point was Hamza was good when he came in this season, not today! I was summarising the season... 

 

Onto today... Being expected to play RB was tough. It was a weird game and so open. All that Wembley space and the fact he came in during the madness meant he didn’t really have a chance. I’ll let him off  for that, and based on Iborra’s performances recently, he gets in ahead of the Spaniard 

Like I said, overall a fair assessment of the season.

 

Tough call with regards to Hamza, though.

Iborra clearly wasn't fully match fit himself - remember he had to come off against West Ham after 45 minutes. Choudhury should've come on as a central midfielder for either Silva or Iborra in the second half today instead. Would've been much more effective. Strange substitution.

 

One aspect to attend to next season: Our training regime. We've had so many injuries in such a short amount of time in 2018, with several players also injured at the same time and particularly the hamstrings affected. That can't be coincidence.

[Gary Eatfood]

9th. Season of missed opportunities in both league and cup.

[NewEnglandFox]

9th place sounds better than it is. It's 47 points, 3 points better than last seasons 12th place 44 point performance. This season we played 47 competitive games including 2 domestic quarter-finals. Last season we played 53 competitive games not including the community shield but including a European quarter final. We played 6 fewer competitive games and only managed 3 more points in the league. We made £73.2m from the Champions League last season. Our higher league positions and domestic cup revenues probably isn't worth 1/3 of that.

 

I say we regressed.

[VLC86]

We have the 7th best team in the league on paper and the 7th highest wage bill. Finishing 9th is slightly below where we should be but for me finishing miles off 7th is what makes it a season of disappointment.

 

Like others have said, Burnley didn’t win for months and Everton were dreadful for most of the season yet in the end we finished a fair way away from Burnley.

 

I don’t buy the this season the league is worse theory. Generally from 7th down the league is actually pretty poor most seasons now and if you look at next season you have all three promoted teams from last season still here, plus this years promoted teams then the likes of Bournemouth, Palace and West Ham with us Burnley and Southampton that could be in the mix depending on how the recruitment goes.

[RowlattsFox]

It's been a strange season all around, lots of average teams taking points off each other and winless runs matched with the odd spurt of wins to shoot someone up the table.

 

Take our 9th position and move on. Be good to resurrect a thread from before the season to see where most thought we'd finish, I think most would have said 7-10, yes its been dull at times and lots of frustration but we're not the only club that think  that.

[Grebfromgrebland]

Winning the league seems to have given far too many on here delusions of grandeur.

 

Ninth isn't too bad, yes we could've done better but we didn't but there's thought green shoots there to think we'll be better next season.

 

If you can't see that I feel sorry for you as you probably can't see the good in anything and spend a lot of your time angry and moaning.

 

This is the most exciting squad we've had in a couple of generations let's see what happens.

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, Grebfromgrebland said:

Winning the league seems to have given far too many on here delusions of grandeur.

 

Ninth isn't too bad, yes we could've done better but we didn't but there's thought green shoots there to think we'll be better next season.

 

If you can't see that I feel sorry for you as you probably can't see the good in anything and spend a lot of your time angry and moaning.

 

This is the most exciting squad we've had in a couple of generations let's see what happens.

Eh?

I still don't see why a portion of our fans disappointed with our style of play, performances and results under Puel in 2018 can be labelled as having "delusions of grandeur".

That's a very superficial brush you're using.

One can acknowledge that we're a mid-table Premier League team, arguably in a very good position financially to aspire to a spot in the Top Seven/Eight, and a team that has blown a big chance of reaching 7th this season.

 

There are parts of that squad that are indeed exciting prospects (Vardy still, Maguire, Chilwell potentially, Iheanacho, Gray & Diabaté hopefully, Silva as a Portugal international, Iborra has shown some class, Albrighton a reliable constant in our play, plus Amartey and youngsters such as Choudhury or Barnes).

What you can't deny is that we've also got a chunk of players that are/have been rapidly declining or are reaching the end of their respective career (Huth gone in the summer, Morgan, Fuchs, Jakupovic, Benalouane, Okazaki, Ulloa) and uncertainties still over the Mahrez situation. And I also wonder what's going to happen with regards to Slimani and Musa.

 

This summer will be crucial, trying to set things straight - and demanding, because of the World Cup complicating things.

[Golden Fox]

I think the big issue here is that 9th place is a flattering position, and the 47 points is the better indicator of the season:

 

Just looked at the last 10 years & what 47th points would get you:

08/09 - 11th
09/10 - 11th
10/11 - 10th/11th
11/12 - 10th-12th
12/13 - 9th
13/14 - 11th
14/15 - 11th/12th
15/16 - 11th/12th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 9th

 

Apart from 16/17 (where the main beneficiary was a certain Mr Puel), 9th place is flattering, and more often than not, this would be a bottom half finish... if the yardstick is what money have we spent, what resources do we have and what is the quality of our squad, then I can't see 47 points as anything other than a disappointment.

 

The other that has been made is how this stacks up against MON's teams:

Over his 4 years, points tallies were: 

47 (+ league cup), 53, 49 (+ league cup final), 55 (+ league cup)

...all of which outperform this season.

 

I don't think that classes as having delusions of grandeur.

Edited 14 May 2018 by Golden Fox
type

[lancyclaret]

Burnley faded badly - the 60-point barrier should have been broken.

[CosbehFox]

I had us down as 10th before the season started and I vividly remember people saying we’d struggle to stay up. 

 

Due to the nature of the PL currently, they can only be one winner in the best of the rest. So there’s going to be a lot of ‘disappointing seasons’ between here and now. 

[VLC86]

2 minutes ago, Cardiff_Fox said:

I had us down as 10th before the season started and I vividly remember people saying we’d struggle to stay up. 

 

Due to the nature of the PL currently, they can only be one winner in the best of the rest. So there’s going to be a lot of ‘disappointing seasons’ between here and now. 

I’m bitterly shocked that only one team can finish 7th at any one time. 

[lifted*fox]

we could and should have gone on to do better after our PL title win but unfortunately after some of the worst player recruitment I've ever seen followed by Ranieri messing it up when putting his own stamp on things, Shakespeare being out of his depth and Puel unfortunately coming in to try and overhaul this tangled mess - we've missed out.

 

BUT - given what a state we've been for the last couple of years; ninth really isn't anything to be sniffed at. 

 

I really, REALLY hope this summer is the summer where we ship out some of the hangers-on from the title win and bring in some new exciting players who can push us forward steadily. 

[Koke]

2 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

I think the big issue here is that 9th place is a flattering position, and the 47 points is the better indicator of the season:

 

Just looked at the last 10 years & what 47th points would get you:

08/09 - 11th
09/10 - 11th
10/11 - 10th/11th
11/12 - 10th-12th
12/13 - 9th
13/14 - 11th
14/15 - 11th/12th
15/16 - 11th/12th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 9th

 

Apart from 16/17 (where the main beneficiary was a certain Mr Puel), 9th place is flattering, and more often than not, this would be a bottom half finish... if the yardstick is what money have we spent, what resources do we have and what is the quality of our squad, then I can't see 47 points as anything other than a disappointment.

 

The other that has been made is how this stacks up against MON's teams:

Over his 4 years, points tallies were: 

47 (+ league cup), 53, 49 (+ league cup final), 55 (+ league cup)

...all of which outperform this season.

 

I don't think that classes as having delusions of grandeur.

 

 

Fajr post but you have to take into account that Puel arrived mid season whilst we were 17th.

[lifted*fox]

2 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

if the yardstick is what money have we spent, what resources do we have and what is the quality of our squad, then I can't see 47 points as anything other than a disappointment.

 

 

we spent lots of money on rubbish - most of which has been shipped out.

the quality of our squad is overrated. defensively (and in the midfield somewhat) it's actually very poor.

add to that an ever-growing list of injuries and general incompetence around the club. 

 

our ascendancy - or opportunity to ascend further as a club died the moment we absolutely ****ed up the recruitment following the title win.

no vision, no plan, no footballing philosophy since we won the league.

 

you could actually argue that Puel is the only manager since the title win who's even remotely tried to change our playing style with some form of future vision for the club. 

it's not been an easy ride - with some of the players we've got it's like pissing in the wind but maybe with a little patience and time it might work. 

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, lifted*fox said:

 

we spent lots of money on rubbish - most of which has been shipped out.

the quality of our squad is overrated. defensively (and in the midfield somewhat) it's actually very poor.

add to that an ever-growing list of injuries and general incompetence around the club. 

 

our ascendancy - or opportunity to ascend further as a club died the moment we absolutely ****ed up the recruitment following the title win.

no vision, no plan, no footballing philosophy since we won the league.

 

you could actually argue that Puel is the only manager since the title win who's even remotely tried to change our playing style with some form of future vision for the club. 

it's not been an easy ride - with some of the players we've got it's like pissing in the wind but maybe with a little patience and time it might work. 

Ranieri tried last season, it ended in tears, five wins in twenty and five straight defeats.

[AlloverthefloorYesNdidi]

13 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Ranieri tried last season, it ended in tears, five wins in twenty and five straight defeats.

Exactly. Puel did it to varied success, without changing the squad.

This was incredible to witness whilst it worked, up until the down turn

[Golden Fox]

54 minutes ago, Koke said:

Fajr post but you have to take into account that Puel arrived mid season whilst we were 17th.

My post wasn't a comment direct on Puel, but the season as a whole. However, given how tough our start was, and given what the last half a season has been like (the last 2 "training sessions" aside), I'm not convinced we'd have had more than 47 points had he been here for the whole season!

 

48 minutes ago, lifted*fox said:

you could actually argue that Puel is the only manager since the title win who's even remotely tried to change our playing style with some form of future vision for the club. 

it's not been an easy ride - with some of the players we've got it's like pissing in the wind but maybe with a little patience and time it might work. 

I stand by what I said that this season is a disappointment.

 

However, I would fully accept that if Puel continues as manager and if he is able to turn his vision into more points, that we could retrospectively look back as 2017/18 as a transitional season, and that the 47 points and 9th place was part of the process, and be happy with it.

 

I follow a lot of NHL hockey & teams are quite happy to openly talk of transitional periods so the fans can buy into poorer seasons. However, that sport is a very different scenario with no threat of relegation so teams can go through longer term plans. I just have very little faith that if we have a poor start to next season that the owners won't hesitate to sack Puel & we'll start all over again with a different manager and a different philosophy. Against that background and the short-termism in the Premier League, I find it very difficult to take a long term view.

 

[MC Prussian]

1 hour ago, Koke said:

 

Fajr post but you have to take into account that Puel arrived mid season whilst we were 17th.

We were in 14th place.

And it wasn‘t exactly mid-season, either - one quarter of it more like it.

Edited 14 May 2018 by MC Prussian

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

A truly weird season, full of bumps- a- daisy! We were unpredictable.

 

[Julian Joachim Jr Shabadoo]

Let's not paper over the cracks, barring the first 7 or so games under Puel and another couple of good results here and there, this was a very mediocre season all things considered. Lost count of the amount of games we should have pissed and ended up scraping a draw, getting battered by Crystal fvcking Palace, a few former legends going off the boil for weeks on end (or altogether). We were only a result or two better off than last season, and the whole world knew we were shit then. We've got a lot of work to do to sort this squad and management out or we'll be in trouble next season

 

Ninth sounds ok, but the standard of tenth downwards is practically Championship material

[Tielemans63]

Could be worse. Could have just ****ed up a play off semi like our good friends at Derby County

 

 

[Phube]

8 hours ago, Golden Fox said:

I think the big issue here is that 9th place is a flattering position, and the 47 points is the better indicator of the season:

 

Just looked at the last 10 years & what 47th points would get you:

08/09 - 11th
09/10 - 11th
10/11 - 10th/11th
11/12 - 10th-12th
12/13 - 9th
13/14 - 11th
14/15 - 11th/12th
15/16 - 11th/12th
16/17 - 8th
17/18 - 9th

 

Apart from 16/17 (where the main beneficiary was a certain Mr Puel), 9th place is flattering, and more often than not, this would be a bottom half finish... if the yardstick is what money have we spent, what resources do we have and what is the quality of our squad, then I can't see 47 points as anything other than a disappointment.

 

The other that has been made is how this stacks up against MON's teams:

Over his 4 years, points tallies were: 

47 (+ league cup), 53, 49 (+ league cup final), 55 (+ league cup)

...all of which outperform this season.

 

I don't think that classes as having delusions of grandeur.

 

 

Well this analysis (comprehensive as it is) makes no sense. Points in individual seasons mean nothing... only position.

 

Or have Man U had a better season this year than their treble winning season (79 - 81 points)?

 

Or Tottenham had a better season last year than us in 2016 (86 - 81 points)?

[HighPeakFox]

I suspect that @MC Prussianis the exception that proves the rule - expectations are generally too high. A brief scan shows comments such as 'games we should have pissed', and at best that kind of comment is naive, simply because any football follower should expect the unexpected - it ranks alongside some Londoner dismissing our title charge with 'Leicester are nobodies - you do the maths', which was insulting, and hilariously wrong, as we all know. Similarly, comments about finishing below Burnley being 'embarrassing' are cheap, rude, and massively hypocritical, given how much so many of us resent how the super-rich teams' fans sneered and probably still sneer at our title win.

 

My thoughts on what happened this season are that, once we were (to all intents and purposes) safe, I think CP decided that, although results are always preferable, they weren't going to be the be-all and end-all, thus he fiddled with line-ups and tactics, whilst having to (it would appear) dance a fine political line with one or two old hands, to try and learn as much as possible. This was a risk, of course, given that fans only really see the matches and no context or background other than those rumours we get fed, accurate or otherwise.

 

We fans are, by and large, result merchants - we demand home wins in 75% of fixtures and expect a competitive effort against the other 25%, and anything less gets the bird. I'm not slating that or putting myself above it, either. I'm simply trying to point out that there may well be complex and hidden reasons for all sorts that goes on.

[Golden Fox]

5 minutes ago, Phube said:

 

Well this analysis (comprehensive as it is) makes no sense. Points in individual seasons mean nothing... only position.

 

Or have Man U had a better season this year than their treble winning season (79 - 81 points)?

 

Or Tottenham had a better season last year than us in 2016 (86 - 81 points)?

I agree at the extremes: if there is something at stake, such as winning the league or relegation, then the points become largely irrelevant (although Man City's quest for 100 points shows there is still more to it than just finishing position), but in the middle ground, I think looking at how many games you have won or lost (as well as finishing position) is a pretty good measure as to whether season has been successful or not. If we are looking back at how well we did this year, the fact we won 12 games and lost 15 doesn't sound that successful to me...