So, 5 games in...

[yks]

1 minute ago, fuchsntf said:

 

1....Chelsea
2		Liverpool	5	9	15
3		Man City	5	11	13
4		Watford	5	5	12
5		Bournemouth	5	3	10
6		Tottenham	5	4	9
7		Arsenal	5	1	9
8		Man Utd	5	0	9
9		Wolves	5	0	8
10		Everton	5	-1	6
11		Leicester	5	-1	6
12		Crystal Palace	5	-2	6
13		Southampton	5	0	5
14		Brighton	5	-2	5
15		Fulham	5	-5	4
16		West Ham	5	-6	3
17		Cardiff	5	-6	2
18		Huddersfield	5	-9	2
19		Newcastle	5	-4	1
20		Burnley	5	-7

if this was EOS...would you be happy,or disapointed

Maybe the key point is we are not even close to EOS...

[UniFox21]

2 minutes ago, yks said:

Maybe the key point is we are not even close to EOS...

I don't even know why this is having to be said. It's like taking the table after we'd played United with us bottom, "would you be happy with this come the end of the season" 

 

We're 5 games in, everyone take a breath and chill

[Strokes]

37 minutes ago, fuchsntf said:

 

1....Chelsea
2		Liverpool	5	9	15
3		Man City	5	11	13
4		Watford	5	5	12
5		Bournemouth	5	3	10
6		Tottenham	5	4	9
7		Arsenal	5	1	9
8		Man Utd	5	0	9
9		Wolves	5	0	8
10		Everton	5	-1	6
11		Leicester	5	-1	6
12		Crystal Palace	5	-2	6
13		Southampton	5	0	5
14		Brighton	5	-2	5
15		Fulham	5	-5	4
16		West Ham	5	-6	3
17		Cardiff	5	-6	2
18		Huddersfield	5	-9	2
19		Newcastle	5	-4	1
20		Burnley	5	-7

if this was EOS...would you be happy,or disapointed

Mate, I’d be fuming if we ended the season on 6 points.

[STUHILL]

2 hours ago, UniFox21 said:

I don't even know why this is having to be said. It's like taking the table after we'd played United with us bottom, "would you be happy with this come the end of the season" 

 

We're 5 games in, everyone take a breath and chill

I think most people are still pretty chilled. It's just the usual extremists and then a lot of posters, myself included, that see a few warning signs. 

 

He needs more time though and will no doubt get it from the owners. Earliest I expect them to make a move, would be December but I think Puel will have enough with this squad to keep us away from danger and keep the owners from pulling the trigger. Summer may be a different outcome though, if we finish much below 10th

[Fox92]

10 hours ago, l444ry said:

Just as well Maguire sneaked that winner in added time at Southampton or we'd be 2 points off the relegation places. I genuinely admire some peoples positive slant on things.  

You could say this about every game.

 

If we wouldn't have conceded a penalty at Old Trafford we'd have taken a point.

 

[sacreblueits442]

19 hours ago, Fox92 said:

Tbh 6 points from our 5 games isn't bad anywhere when you consider we've played two top four sides (one of which is a genuine title contender), a dangerous attacking side in Bournemouth and a decent side in Wolves on the back of high levels of confidence from promotion.

 

We should win on Saturday. Huddersfield won't be set up like Bournemouth, they'll come from a point. It'll be interesting to see if we can break them down but I think we will.

... do you not think that Bournemouth has provided the rest of the league with the definitive way to beat our team! 

 Playing away, why not sit back and hit us on the break. 

 

Like Arsene, Puel has a set way of playing and will not change in any circumstances. The reason why Arsenal stagnated was due to Arsene's stubbornness and don't forget they are kindred spirits. 

  I suspect the owners would take mid table finishes for the next 2-3 years while using the revenue from the league to finance the building extention and training ground. This was Arsenal's policy and no doubt what our owners, probably sees as viable. 

  Do not expect to see any changes in formation or playing style, this has been fixed in Puel's mind for some time. 

[Ric Flair]

8 hours ago, STUHILL said:

I think most people are still pretty chilled. It's just the usual extremists and then a lot of posters, myself included, that see a few warning signs. 

 

He needs more time though and will no doubt get it from the owners. Earliest I expect them to make a move, would be December but I think Puel will have enough with this squad to keep us away from danger and keep the owners from pulling the trigger. Summer may be a different outcome though, if we finish much below 10th

Earliest they'll make a move would be 3-4 losses on the spin this autumn/winter.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, sacreblueits442 said:

... do you not think that Bournemouth has provided the rest of the league with the definitive way to beat our team! 

 Playing away, why not sit back and hit us on the break. 

 

Like Arsene, Puel has a set way of playing and will not change in any circumstances. The reason why Arsenal stagnated was due to Arsene's stubbornness and don't forget they are kindred spirits. 

  I suspect the owners would take mid table finishes for the next 2-3 years while using the revenue from the league to finance the building extention and training ground. This was Arsenal's policy and no doubt what our owners, probably sees as viable. 

  Do not expect to see any changes in formation or playing style, this has been fixed in Puel's mind for some time. 

I honestly don't understand the summer recruitment if Puel has no intentions of changing to a back three, it makes no sense. It'll be his downfall as I don't see how we shore up the back four without dropping Ricardo and Chilwell.

[Woodsey1727]

We are doing well it's just the bad game against Bournemouth at the weekend that have got everyone worried, we should have got something again man utd and Liverpool, yes we didn't play very well against wolves and Southampton but we played well enough to win those games and as the season goes on the team will get better and more consistent the more games they play, discuss how well the team is doing after 20 games not 5

[Babylon]

20 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I honestly don't understand the summer recruitment if Puel has no intentions of changing to a back three, it makes no sense. It'll be his downfall as I don't see how we shore up the back four without dropping Ricardo and Chilwell.

The midfield two do what they are supposed to do and a bit more pace in the CB pairing and the problem isn't as prevalent IMO. Ricardo is going to have to learn that you get punished here like perhaps you don't in Portugal as well.

 

We thought we might lose Maguire so we signed two CB's, what Benkovic said when he went to Celtic made that pretty clear.

[Finnaldo]

This forum honestly baffles me.

 

In the years since the title win everyone's said we can't keep playing as we were, that we were being found out, that we were being neutralised. 

 

The manager has totally revamped the team. New formation and tactics, a radical shift in service upfront from Mahrez to a younger and inexperienced (yet extremely talented) Maddison and the team as a whole has had a few years shaved off it.

 

He's given the fans what they want and after 5 games they want him out. 

 

Soyuncu clearly isn't fit/ready yet. Evans was clearly unfit at the start of the season and Benkovic is clearly a long term project. Perreira needs to adapt his game and Maddison needs to make the full step up although his door his halfway through the door already. It's clearly going to take time to get this team at 100% and there's tactical issues to iron out, but what did we expect.

 

You can say we were 'lucky against Wolves (despite winning 2-0 with ten men??) or lucky to get a winner at Southampton, but if you want to play that game then by the same token we were dead unlucky got to get points if not wins from Liverpool and Man U when we bossed them for large portions of the match.

 

People wanted young, people wanted new, and they've got it. Shockingly, it's gonna take time for the team to gel and become an effective unit, ask Pep and Klopp about that. In all honestly it may never work out, but you can't know that 5 games in and if by the end of Match Day 10 we're still struggling to get the basics right the fair enough send Puel packing. But I'm sick of every. fvcking. year. the same moaning that we've not changed, not adapted and when someone comes along and puts their head on the block to risk giving what we've asked for, its the same people swinging the axe the fastest.

Edited 18 September 2018 by Finnaldo

[Ric Flair]

30 minutes ago, Babylon said:

The midfield two do what they are supposed to do and a bit more pace in the CB pairing and the problem isn't as prevalent IMO. Ricardo is going to have to learn that you get punished here like perhaps you don't in Portugal as well.

 

We thought we might lose Maguire so we signed two CB's, what Benkovic said when he went to Celtic made that pretty clear.

I still don't understand the summer recruitment regardless of Benkovic. You don't buy Evans and someone like Soyuncu for the bench, not when there's also Amartey, Johnson, Knight, Hughes, Benalouane and even Fuchs. It's grossly over resourced compared with out wide and up front. Puel doesn't chop and change his back line as much as the rest of the team either so it's not as if he's a heavy rotator at the back. 3-4-1-2 is obvious and if you need to change it, there's 2 wingers and an attacker on the bench where as at the minute he's got little alternative in the XI he picks and the bench he's bizarrely selecting.

[Ric Flair]

2 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

This forum honestly baffles me.

 

In the years since the title win everyone's said we can't keep playing as we were, that we were being found out, that we were being neutralised. 

 

The manager has totally revamped the team. New formation and tactics, a radical shift in service upfront from Mahrez to a younger and inexperienced (yet extremely talented) Maddison and the team as a whole has had a few years shaved off it.

 

He's given the fans what they want and after 5 games they want him out. 

 

Soyuncu clearly isn't fit/ready yet. Evans was clearly unfit at the start of the season and Benkovic is clearly a long term project. Perreira needs to adapt his game and Maddison needs to make the full step up although his door his halfway through the door already. It's clearly going to take time to get this team at 100% and there's tactical issues to iron out, but what did we expect.

 

You can say we were 'lucky against Wolves (despite winning 2-0 with ten men??) or lucky to get a winner at Southampton, but if you want to play that game then by the same token we were dead unlucky got to get points if not wins from Liverpool and Man U when we bossed them for large portions of the match.

 

People wanted young, people wanted new, and they've got it. Shockingly, it's gonna take time for the team to gel and become an effective unit, ask Pep and Klopp about that. In all honestly it may never work out, but you can't know that 5 games in and if by the end of Match Day 10 we're still struggling to get the basics right the fair enough send Puel packing. But I'm sick of every. fvcking. year. the same moaning that we've not changed, not adapted and when someone comes along and puts their head on the block to risk giving what we've asked for, its the same people swinging the axe the fastest.

All of this would be spot on, except 7-8 of this team have been here a long while and have had best part of a year to adapt to Puel's tactics. Yet defensively we are looking as bad as anything I've seen in a Leicester shirt in the Premier League. We've let go pretty much every other option up front bar Iheanacho, who Puel has put very little faith in compared to the faith he's placed on Chilwell and Gray with chance, after chance to make an impact. We started the Liverpool game without a fcukin striker and were anonymous for best part of an hour, gifted them a 2 goal lead when they'd barely got out of 1st gear and only really started playing when Iheanacho came on and him, Ghezzal and Maddison really went at them. It was an opportunity missed, not unlucky at all we started the game with one arm tied behind our backs.

[ARM1968]

Bournemouth was a debacle, no doubt, but it wasn’t quite as the score suggested. 

 

Should have got something at Utd. Should probably have drawn against or beaten Liverpool. 

 

The team is young and needing to gel. Obviously if things drag on and results don’t come, serious questions will be asked. 

 

However i I think we have a lot to be positive about. That being said old Claude comes across as motivational as a damp kipper. 

 

Personally I’ll assess things after 10 games. My assessment will mean feck all, but that’s where I am. 

[Guest]

33 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

This forum honestly baffles me.

 

In the years since the title win everyone's said we can't keep playing as we were, that we were being found out, that we were being neutralised. 

 

The manager has totally revamped the team. New formation and tactics, a radical shift in service upfront from Mahrez to a younger and inexperienced (yet extremely talented) Maddison and the team as a whole has had a few years shaved off it.

 

He's given the fans what they want and after 5 games they want him out. 

 

Soyuncu clearly isn't fit/ready yet. Evans was clearly unfit at the start of the season and Benkovic is clearly a long term project. Perreira needs to adapt his game and Maddison needs to make the full step up although his door his halfway through the door already. It's clearly going to take time to get this team at 100% and there's tactical issues to iron out, but what did we expect.

 

You can say we were 'lucky against Wolves (despite winning 2-0 with ten men??) or lucky to get a winner at Southampton, but if you want to play that game then by the same token we were dead unlucky got to get points if not wins from Liverpool and Man U when we bossed them for large portions of the match.

 

People wanted young, people wanted new, and they've got it. Shockingly, it's gonna take time for the team to gel and become an effective unit, ask Pep and Klopp about that. In all honestly it may never work out, but you can't know that 5 games in and if by the end of Match Day 10 we're still struggling to get the basics right the fair enough send Puel packing. But I'm sick of every. fvcking. year. the same moaning that we've not changed, not adapted and when someone comes along and puts their head on the block to risk giving what we've asked for, its the same people swinging the axe the fastest.

Great post and worth using up the last of my allotted few to say it.

Edited 18 September 2018 by Guest

[Finnaldo]

18 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

All of this would be spot on, except 7-8 of this team have been here a long while and have had best part of a year to adapt to Puel's tactics. Yet defensively we are looking as bad as anything I've seen in a Leicester shirt in the Premier League. We've let go pretty much every other option up front bar Iheanacho, who Puel has put very little faith in compared to the faith he's placed on Chilwell and Gray with chance, after chance to make an impact. We started the Liverpool game without a fcukin striker and were anonymous for best part of an hour, gifted them a 2 goal lead when they'd barely got out of 1st gear and only really started playing when Iheanacho came on and him, Ghezzal and Maddison really went at them. It was an opportunity missed, not unlucky at all we started the game with one arm tied behind our backs.

 

Very true. I'm not an Puel apologist by any stretch and some of his decisions have been puzzling to say the least, but so were Pearson's at times. You're right some in the team have been longer, but this is a new system and a lot of those in  the squad have been used to playing one way for the last four years.

 

To be frank my position isn't one of defending Puel. I understand the criticism of him and I believe some of it myself, however I generally like to give it ten games unless we start losing games 3 or 4-0 week after week and we're in real crisis. Hes the manager and this is his first full season in charge. I find your criticism fully legitimate and agree myself but my position is that we should be using that to assess the next five games before we make big judgments on his future, like someone here are already keen on doing.

[Babylon]

36 minutes ago, Ric Flair said:

I still don't understand the summer recruitment regardless of Benkovic. You don't buy Evans and someone like Soyuncu for the bench, not when there's also Amartey, Johnson, Knight, Hughes, Benalouane and even Fuchs. It's grossly over resourced compared with out wide and up front. Puel doesn't chop and change his back line as much as the rest of the team either so it's not as if he's a heavy rotator at the back. 3-4-1-2 is obvious and if you need to change it, there's 2 wingers and an attacker on the bench where as at the minute he's got little alternative in the XI he picks and the bench he's bizarrely selecting.

He probably took one look at Evans and has decided he's not what he wanted. Amartey has never played at CB for us, Johnson, not ready, Knight, not ready, Benny, Shit, Fuchs, barely capable at left back now, Wes gone in the summer. We needed CB's for now and the long term.

[Ric Flair]

10 minutes ago, Babylon said:

He probably took one look at Evans and has decided he's not what he wanted. Amartey has never played at CB for us, Johnson, not ready, Knight, not ready, Benny, Shit, Fuchs, barely capable at left back now, Wes gone in the summer. We needed CB's for now and the long term.

Maybe so, I'm sure he's explained it to the board but compared to the distinct lack of options in other areas I find it baffling. It's all about picking a side with balance, this squad would suggest 3-4-1-2 or a variation of that is the way to go. Currently, we are suspect at the back and have two very attacking full backs that are error prone in their positional play and general defending. Yes, there's ways of counteracting that by getting one of your central midfielders to drop in but I think we've got problems in central midfield as it is. The only players that are possibly going to be under used if we changed to this system would be our wingers but Gray seems primed to be the English Thierry Henry in Puel's eyes so would most likely take the role up with Vardy over Iheanacho and Ghezzal may have to make do with a role from the bench to start with but we've simply got to tighten up at the back and be more clinical going forward. The key stats so far don't bode well for us.

 

We are shipping goals and tending to score consolations which skew the for and against figures on paper. We are in the bottom 6 sides for chances created so this myth we are an attacking side who have to take conceding goals as a consequence of that is utter bollocks, I nearly nutted the train window when I read that muck in The Mercury yesterday. I believe this side has the potential for goals scored to not be an issue but we need some serious improvement on that. Defensively, I don't think we've been that solid for over 2 seasons now and that's nothing to do with the nature of our attacking philosophy. We have a soft underbelly and it's got to be dealt with.

[Guest Col city fan]

59 minutes ago, Finnaldo said:

 

Very true. I'm not an Puel apologist by any stretch and some of his decisions have been puzzling to say the least, but so were Pearson's at times. You're right some in the team have been longer, but this is a new system and a lot of those in  the squad have been used to playing one way for the last four years.

 

To be frank my position isn't one of defending Puel. I understand the criticism of him and I believe some of it myself, however I generally like to give it ten games unless we start losing games 3 or 4-0 week after week and we're in real crisis. Hes the manager and this is his first full season in charge. I find your criticism fully legitimate and agree myself but my position is that we should be using that to assess the next five games before we make big judgments on his future, like someone here are already keen on doing.

I generally thought with Pearson that I agreed with most of his team selections.

The first season in the Prem was really tough but I felt that was more lack of experience, some average players more than lack of tactical  nouse.

But with Puel, he makes some decisions I just don’t get. Fundamentally.

We signed two young, up and coming CB’s in the summer, yet he continues to field Morgan.

We are losing a game and need to score..and he brings Amartey on.

I’d not play Mendy and Wilf together. This places the whole creative onus onto one player....Maddison... who is still finding his feet at this level.

This is by no means an exhaustive list. I always find it more difficult to warm to a manager when you look at what he’s done and think wtf?

I agree with you though. I think 10 games is a decent yardstick. There are no hiding places now, no excuses. This is HIS squad now and we need to start seeing where we are going.

Edited 18 September 2018 by Col city fan

[UpTheLeagueFox]

1 hour ago, Finnaldo said:

The manager has totally revamped the team. He's given the fans what they want and after 5 games they want him out. 

But it's not just five games. It's five games this season, yes.

After a great start - 17pts from first 8 games - it's been, for the large part, pretty poor.

Yes he's trying to change the way we play (with younger players) but he wants us to play one way and one way only.

I think his stubborn-ness may well lead to his downfall.

[l444ry]

3 hours ago, Fox92 said:

You could say this about every game.

 

If we wouldn't have conceded a penalty at Old Trafford we'd have taken a point.

 

Feel free to miss the point. Your example of that penalty at Man Utd was in the 3rd minute, giving us 87 mins to recover. Maguire scored well into added on time with no chance for Southampton to respond. Wolves aside, we don't get our heads in front that often this season (or last season if we're being brutally honest). That is the point I was making about Maguire's important strike and it's connection to relegation placings.

Edited 18 September 2018 by l444ry

[Strokes]

38 minutes ago, UpTheLeagueFox said:

But it's not just five games. It's five games this season, yes.

After a great start - 17pts from first 8 games - it's been, for the large part, pretty poor.

Yes he's trying to change the way we play (with younger players) but he wants us to play one way and one way only.

I think his stubborn-ness may well lead to his downfall.

Sadly that’s my view too. I’d really like it to click for him but he can’t carry on for long and not address our obvious flaws.

[STUHILL]

On 17/09/2018 at 11:33, WilmslowFox said:

Happy with Chilwell and Ricardo's attacking qualities, but they leave too much space behind for the opposition to exploit, and something needs to change to account for this.  After the Crystal Palace drubbing it seemed obvious that we needed to switch to three CBs to better cover the space left at the back by playing attacking wing backs.  With several new CBs arriving in the summer it looked as though we were heading down this route, but no, Puel's answer seems to be playing two (excellent) defensive midfielders instead, which almost paid off against Liverpool, but has evidently not worked playing a higher line against Bournemouth.  Personally I would start to phase in a back three of Maguire, Söyünçü and Johnson (so that there is a bit more pace than would be offered by Morgan or Evans) as soon as possible.

 

Also would rather see Albrighton (or Ndukwu) starting than Gray.

 

We are always being told that Puel is great at introducing young players, with Chilwell and Gray cited as evidence, but they both made their first team debuts several seasons (and managers) ago - where are the opportunities for the likes of Darnell Johnson and Leyton Ndukwu who impressed in pre-season, but have been confined to the development squad since?

Interesting point. Many afford him extra leniency on this basis alone.

[STUHILL]

Can people stop saying 'It's only 5 games' ! 

 

Puel has had 41 games. Over a season worth of games. Had two transfer windows and a full pre-season.

 

It is not just 5 games! 

 

He should, and no doubt will get more time, but there should be cut off point when people have to acknowledge that he is just not doing a good enough job with the players and resources he has available to him.

 

[Simoken]

1 minute ago, STUHILL said:

Can people stop saying 'It's only 5 games' ! 

 

Puel has had 41 games. Over a season worth of games. Had two transfer windows and a full pre-season.

 

It is not just 5 games! 

 

He should, and no doubt will get more time, but there should be cut off point when people have to acknowledge that he is just not doing a good enough job with the players and resources he has available to him.

41 games to prove all you twats wrong... no way near enough considering clear changes he has applied to the squad, which is the best way forward. He has taken us to a modern styled era of football and using our young talent unlike the previous.. managers who stuck with the old and figured out and didnt have the guts to make real change. (no offence to ranieri but we were lucky the top teams all had a bad season) I cant honestly think wed of won it otherwise in all honesty But yeah.. blame Puel for having the balls to try something new and trusting our youngsters sounds crazy right.