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- Politely brutal sacking letter from May

- Mordaunt appointed Defence Sec

- Williamson still denies leaking

- Cable calls for criminal investigation

 

........all kicking off. 

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6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

- Politely brutal sacking letter from May

- Mordaunt appointed Defence Sec

- Williamson still denies leaking

- Cable calls for criminal investigation

 

........all kicking off. 

 

What a farce of a government.

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6 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

- Politely brutal sacking letter from May

- Mordaunt appointed Defence Sec

- Williamson still denies leaking

- Cable calls for criminal investigation

 

........all kicking off. 

If he has he should be prosecuted - breach of the official secrets act. 

 

The defence secretary prosecuted for leaking issues of national security, you couldn't make it up.

 

Williamson out and Penny Mordaunt and Rory Stewart promoted would be a good day as well usually.

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3 minutes ago, Buce said:

What a farce of a government.

It's beyond shambolic now. Completely embarrassing.

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'Spectacular find': Denisovan jawbone discovered in Tibetan cave

Scientists extracted proteins from one of the molars to help uncover the fossil’s evolutionary origin.

This is brilliant and explains why Sherpas and Tibetans can live at altitude.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2019/may/01/denisovan-jawbone-discovered-in-tibetan-cave

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52 minutes ago, MattP said:

If he has he should be prosecuted - breach of the official secrets act. 

 

The defence secretary prosecuted for leaking issues of national security, you couldn't make it up.

 

Williamson out and Penny Mordaunt and Rory Stewart promoted would be a good day as well usually.

How did that useless thick **** get the job in the first place? Difficult to be the most useless amongst that shower of shite. 

 

Mordaunt is fit and Stewart probably my favourite properly principled Tory so definitely a positive. 

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20 minutes ago, bovril said:

Is that a pro EU jumper from our Tommy?

Or a 5 Stelle jumper from Italy?

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Superb to see Gavin Williamson up to his eyeballs in shit 

 

Utterly terrifying for Mordaunt to be Defence Secretary

Edited by Kopfkino
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1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

Apparently, the UK is to boost military support to Nigeria to help defeat Boko Haram.

 

I don't know where it all went wrong but I thought Whiter Shade of Pale was brilliant.

 

We're sending a special force of knights in white satin, I heard.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-48123355

 

"There is to be a by-election in Peterborough after 19,261 people signed a recall petition to remove the city's disgraced MP Fiona Onasanya. Ms Onasanya, 35, was jailed in January, and released the following month, after lying about a speeding offence. She was expelled by Labour after her conviction and had been representing Peterborough as an independent. A 10% threshold was required to remove Ms Onasanya, who will be allowed to stand in the by-election. According to a spokeswoman for Peterborough City Council, the number of people who signed the petition amounted to 27.6% of eligible residents".

 

Normally, I'd have expected the Tories to have won Peterborough back as a backlash seeing as Onasanya was originally elected as a Labour MP (surprised Tories lost it in the first place).

But in the current political environment? And now there's talk of the Brexit Party standing as the byelection will be held within 1-2 months - possibly even Farage standing.....so could go Con, Lab or Brexit Party? 

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27 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

We're sending a special force of knights in white satin, I heard.

On a plane, as they were feeling kind of seasick, apparently. 

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9 minutes ago, Buce said:

Williamson isn't going quietly - he 'swears on his kids' lives' that it wasn't him.

 

It's starting to look like a stitch up, tbh.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48129280

Quite possible - they must surely have strong evidence though to get rid?

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11 minutes ago, MattP said:

Quite possible - they must surely have strong evidence though to get rid?

 

From what I've read, the evidence is circumstantial - his phone records show he called the journo who broke the story on the day in question, which I suppose is quite compelling, tbf.

 

Nonetheless, he does seem to be a popular choice to blame and it's highly unusual for someone to protest their innocence as long and loud as he is doing.

 

A convenient scapegoat for someone more senior, perhaps?

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1 hour ago, Buce said:

 

From what I've read, the evidence is circumstantial - his phone records show he called the journo who broke the story on the day in question, which I suppose is quite compelling, tbf.

 

 

That seems to be the gist - known to have contacted relevant journalist on day of leak, but content of conversation unknown. But Tom Newton Dunn was just speculating that security services might have tapped a phone, but be unable to publicise that due to questionable legality. There's also the clear accusation in May's letter that Williamson didn't cooperate properly with the investigation.

 

In a way, it would be even worse if it was a stitch-up. What would that say about the state of govt if a minister was being sacked and having his career ruined as a vendetta or to protect someone else, over an issue involving national security? :blink:

Doing something like that the day before local elections is a bit strange, too.

 

Then again, there have been politicians and others who've sworn to be telling the truth and then been revealed to be lying. Boris comes to mind, but Jonathan Aitken was maybe the most blatant of all....

 

"If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today. Thank you and good afternoon"......said the bloke who subsequently pleaded guilty to perjury and perverting the course of justice, for which he was sent to prison! lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Aitken#Perjury_conviction_and_imprisonment

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15 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

That seems to be the gist - known to have contacted relevant journalist on day of leak, but content of conversation unknown. But Tom Newton Dunn was just speculating that security services might have tapped a phone, but be unable to publicise that due to questionable legality. There's also the clear accusation in May's letter that Williamson didn't cooperate properly with the investigation.

 

In a way, it would be even worse if it was a stitch-up. What would that say about the state of govt if a minister was being sacked and having his career ruined as a vendetta or to protect someone else, over an issue involving national security? :blink:

Doing something like that the day before local elections is a bit strange, too.

 

Then again, there have been politicians and others who've sworn to be telling the truth and then been revealed to be lying. Boris comes to mind, but Jonathan Aitken was maybe the most blatant of all....

 

"If it falls to me to start a fight to cut out the cancer of bent and twisted journalism in our country with the simple sword of truth and the trusty shield of British fair play, so be it. I am ready for the fight. The fight against falsehood and those who peddle it. My fight begins today. Thank you and good afternoon"......said the bloke who subsequently pleaded guilty to perjury and perverting the course of justice, for which he was sent to prison! lol

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Aitken#Perjury_conviction_and_imprisonment

 

Yeah, I get that, and I'm certainly not shedding any tears for him - useless at his job and unpleasant with it.

 

However, if guilty, swearing on his kids' lives would be sinking beneath the gutter and into the sewer.

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9 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, I get that, and I'm certainly not shedding any tears for him - useless at his job and unpleasant with it.

 

However, if guilty, swearing on his kids' lives would be sinking beneath the gutter and into the sewer.

 

Absolutely - and I've no idea whether he's guilty or been stitched up.

 

I suppose I'm saying:

- Just because someone swears blind they're innocent (even on their kids' lives) doesn't mean they are. How many people plead guilty in court at the last minute, once it's clear there's evidence they're bang to rights?

- If he has been stitched up, that's actually worse as it means the PM/Govt/senior civil servants are using a national security issue to corruptly settle personal scores/victimise someone without evidence. An individual doing something dodgy can happen to any govt/institution, but a govt/system being dishonest would be much more serious

 

If he has done what he's accused of, it will probably destroy his career (though some seem to bounce back from such scandals)...so how would a few comments about his kids' lives compare to the loss of his chosen career? And he seems a very personally ambitious man.

 

Will be interesting to see if he takes his protests further. If he has no recording, he cannot prove what he did or didn't say to the journalist (will the journalist confirm/deny?). But May's letter makes clear that he's been sacked partly for not cooperating properly with the investigation. If he denies that, he could demand redacted publication or independent examination of the papers relating to the investigation, to show that he cooperated as much as anyone else? Will he do anything like that? Such records would also presumably show why there are supposedly no credible explanations for the leak other than it having come from Williamson?

 

Given the seriousness of the accusations against him (even potential criminal charges) and the possible destruction of his career, if he DOESN'T do the max to prove his innocence, a lot of people will think it suggests guilt. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

Absolutely - and I've no idea whether he's guilty or been stitched up.

 

I suppose I'm saying:

- Just because someone swears blind they're innocent (even on their kids' lives) doesn't mean they are. How many people plead guilty in court at the last minute, once it's clear there's evidence they're bang to rights?

- If he has been stitched up, that's actually worse as it means the PM/Govt/senior civil servants are using a national security issue to corruptly settle personal scores/victimise someone without evidence. An individual doing something dodgy can happen to any govt/institution, but a govt/system being dishonest would be much more serious

 

If he has done what he's accused of, it will probably destroy his career (though some seem to bounce back from such scandals)...so how would a few comments about his kids' lives compare to the loss of his chosen career? And he seems a very personally ambitious man.

 

Will be interesting to see if he takes his protests further. If he has no recording, he cannot prove what he did or didn't say to the journalist (will the journalist confirm/deny?). But May's letter makes clear that he's been sacked partly for not cooperating properly with the investigation. If he denies that, he could demand redacted publication or independent examination of the papers relating to the investigation, to show that he cooperated as much as anyone else? Will he do anything like that? Such records would also presumably show why there are supposedly no credible explanations for the leak other than it having come from Williamson?

 

Given the seriousness of the accusations against him (even potential criminal charges) and the possible destruction of his career, if he DOESN'T do the max to prove his innocence, a lot of people will think it suggests guilt. 

 

 

 

I'm probably just judging him by my standards, tbh, Alf, and being a bit naive.

 

I could never swear on my kid's life to cover up wrongdoing, simply because I'd never be able to look her in the eye again.

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2 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

I'm probably just judging him by my standards, tbh, Alf, and being a bit naive.

 

I could never swear on my kid's life to cover up wrongdoing, simply because I'd never be able to look her in the eye again.

 

I'm sure most people would be the same, apart from criminals, psychopaths and those really lacking any moral compass for whatever reason.

 

But those who are intensely personally ambitious can be an exception, I think - and I don't mean politicians generally or Tories generally. I'd hope that such politicians are very much the exception.

 

I don't know. Maybe it is a stitch-up. If so, Williamson surely has to do his utmost to fight his case - not only to defend his own innocence, but out of a duty to ensure that the guilty party is exposed and unable to continue to exercise power/influence.

Will be interesting to see what, if anything, he does about it....

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Considering the bloke was taken for a mug by Richard Madeley on morning telly I don't fancy his chances of arguing his innocence in high court against the odds.

 

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2 hours ago, Alf Bentley said:

 

I'm sure most people would be the same, apart from criminals, psychopaths and those really lacking any moral compass for whatever reason.

 

But those who are intensely personally ambitious can be an exception, I think - and I don't mean politicians generally or Tories generally. I'd hope that such politicians are very much the exception.

 

I don't know. Maybe it is a stitch-up. If so, Williamson surely has to do his utmost to fight his case - not only to defend his own innocence, but out of a duty to ensure that the guilty party is exposed and unable to continue to exercise power/influence.

Will be interesting to see what, if anything, he does about it....

 

I find it interesting that Williamson is enthusiastic about a police investigation, while May wants it swept under the carpet.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/02/gavin-williamson-police-urged-to-launch-criminal-inquiry

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