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[Guest MattP]

Crazy. Farage is on course to be the kingmaker in the next GE.

 

Has there ever been a more vacuous pointless party than Change UK as well?

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, MattP said:

Crazy. Farage is on course to be the kingmaker in the next GE.

 

Has there ever been a more vacuous pointless party than Change UK as well?

There probably has, but given the supposed quality of current MPs they have. It’s actually quite astonishing how bad they have been to date.

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Strokes said:

There probably has, but given the supposed quality of current MPs they have. It’s actually quite astonishing how bad they have been to date.

If you get time watch Rachel Johnson on This Week - Andrew Neil asks her what Lib Dems policy she opposes and she stays silent before saying "I'm admiring the view"

 

Completely hopeless.

[Lionator]

17 minutes ago, MattP said:

Crazy. Farage is on course to be the kingmaker in the next GE.

 

Has there ever been a more vacuous pointless party than Change UK as well?

This is why Boris will end up as Tory leader I fear. They'll want to get the Brexit vote back. It will however be an unmitigated disaster as he'll be delivering the undeliverable. 

[Buce]

 

Imagine living in a world where Boris Johnson could become Prime Minister.

[Facecloth]

7 hours ago, Buce said:

 

Imagine living in a world where Boris Johnson could become Prime Minister.

Imagine living in a world where a party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

Edited 19 May 2019 by Facecloth

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Imagine living in a world wear party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

Surely the original reason to vote for Farage is because you feel you are not being listened too and feel like your opinion is being subverted. If people continue to disregard those voices it’s obvious he will gain more support.

Also, considering manifestos are not remotely stuck too in my lifetime and all PMs have been proven liars, it really isn’t that shocking.

[Guest MattP]

56 minutes ago, Buce said:

Imagine living in a world where Boris Johnson could become Prime Minister.

Hopefully not - if we are going to have a proper Leaver in charge get one, not a buffoon who pretends to be one.

 

Let's abolish the monarchy as well once Liz  has gone, President Farage has a lovely ring to it.

 

19 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Imagine living in a world wear party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

Same question I've asked of a few others - who should a right leaning Brexiteeer vote for if not Farage?

 

I find it incredible some people are surprised this is happening. They must live in complete echo chambers to think a vote of that size being delayed and the subject of attempted reversal wasn't going to result in this - maybe it takes the Brexit party winning an election to finally hit home.

 

Speaking of mental though - more on the current opposition and potentially the next government - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48324690

[Guest Markyblue]

23 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Imagine living in a world wear party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

Every politician in Westminster agreed to their partys manifesto pledges on brexit and most have gone back onit so their all liars. 

[Guest MattP]

3 minutes ago, Markyblue said:

Every politician in Westminster agreed to their partys manifesto pledges on brexit and most have gone back onit so their all liars. 

So true. 

[MC Prussian]

12 hours ago, Wymeswold fox said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger attacked in South Africa.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-48322307

It is rumoured the attacker suffered two broken feet after the assault, and will remain a cripple for the rest of his life.

 

The fool.

[leicsmac]

47 minutes ago, Facecloth said:

Imagine living in a world wear party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

 

22 minutes ago, MattP said:

Same question I've asked of a few others - who should a right leaning Brexiteeer vote for if not Farage?

 

I find it incredible some people are surprised this is happening. They must live in complete echo chambers to think a vote of that size being delayed and the subject of attempted reversal wasn't going to result in this - maybe it takes the Brexit party winning an election to finally hit home.

 

Speaking of mental though - more on the current opposition and potentially the next government - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-48324690

I'm not all that surprised.

 

To some people, being listened to, having what they believe to be right carried out and having that feeling of validation is better than any consequence of the action itself - any consequence at all.

 

The conundrum of freedom of individual self-determination against long-term future planning and how at odds they can be goes back as far as Plato when he first discussed democracy as an option.

[urban.spaceman]

2 hours ago, Facecloth said:

Imagine living in a world wear party started by a proven liar, that has no manifesto, no policies, nothing, are currently polling first or second in most polls.

 

I can understand people voting for ***** like Farage once, but to repeatedly do it is baffling. There's something seriously wrong with the world.

Completely agree. The problem is, the main parties have completely legitimised him yet again. In 2015 UKIP got 4m votes but just 1 MP. What the hell did Cameron think was going to happen when he called that referendum? That’s at least a 4m base, to which you can probably add a couple of million Conservative and/or Labour voters who would have voted out regardless. The rest were swayed by the campaign, which can only be viewed as another total failure of the remain side. 

 

And then to make things worse, we’ve had 3 whole years of the process being led by squabbling Tory leavers and remainders, Labour and Corbyn having no clear postition whatsoever, the Liberal Democrats getting rid of anti-gay leader while maintaining that they wanted to overturn the biggest mandate in British political history. 

 

We now find ourselves still in Europe despite the fact we should have left by now; Maybot has become more reliably defeatable than the Daleks, Corbyn’s position on Jews is more clear than his position on Brexit, the Liberal Democrats are campaigning to overturn democracy, and we now have two new parties: one called Change UK, who want to maintain the status quo, the other is the Brexit Party, who actually want the UK to leave the EU. 

 

That’s before you even consider the general sneering that leavers have had to put up with for the last 3 years, smeared as stupid racists with a special place in hell waiting for them. 

 

All for an election we shouldn’t even be having. I honestly won’t be surprised if Farage has a clean sweep next week. 

[bovril]

It was always going to happen when reality collided with Brexit fantasy. This was the reason some elements of leave made such outlandish claims during the referendum. They knew it was basically undeliverable and they could push the 'betrayed' line. 

 

Brexiters bought into the myth of British exceptionalism. The mistake mainstream politicians made was indulging it for too long. 

Edited 19 May 2019 by bovril

[bovril]

47 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

...the Brexit Party, who actually want the UK to leave the EU

I'm beginning to doubt Farage actually does. 

[urban.spaceman]

5 minutes ago, bovril said:

I'm beginning to doubt Farage actually does. 

After 20 years as an MEP he’s finally “gone native” and, when he becomes Prime Minister, is going to help the EU take our jobs and our women.... 

[BlueSi13]

17 minutes ago, bovril said:

It was always going to happen when reality collided with Brexit fantasy. This was the reason some elements of leave made such outlandish claims during the referendum. They knew it was basically undeliverable and they could push the 'betrayed' line. 

 

Brexiters bought into the myth of British exceptionalism. The mistake mainstream politicians made was indulging it for too long. 

What has happened to the 520,000 to 820,000 job losses that were promised immediately after the vote by the Remain campaign?  If you want to talk outlandish claims let's start there. 

 

 

That's been once of the true joys of the Brexit vote, it's truly woken the British public up to always question what our 'betters' tell us.

[leicsmac]

13 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

What has happened to the 520,000 to 820,000 job losses that were promised immediately after the vote by the Remain campaign?  If you want to talk outlandish claims let's start there. 

 

 

That's been once of the true joys of the Brexit vote, it's truly woken the British public up to always question what our 'betters' tell us.

As if the leading figures on both sides of the debate don't consider themselves "betters" (if you're going to view it from a cynical POV). It's not like the leading Brexit figures aren't "elites" themselves, is it?

 

Continuing in the same vein, the "public" are often as mean-spirited and self-interested as the people in power (they're human after all), except they don't often have the direct power to actually cause damage with those beliefs, so I consider the whole "man of the people" sentiment to be misplaced anyway.

Edited 19 May 2019 by leicsmac

[bovril]

11 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

What has happened to the 520,000 to 820,000 job losses that were promised immediately after the vote by the Remain campaign?  If you want to talk outlandish claims let's start there. 

 

 

That's been once of the true joys of the Brexit vote, it's truly woken the British public up to always question what our 'betters' tell us.

Bit of a fallacy as we're talking about failure to deliver on the promises of the referendum, which leave won. A better comparison would be if we remained in the EU and Turkey joined, when remain said they wouldn't. 

 

Also not sure your last sentence is true considering the above poll showing parties led by Nigel Farage and Jeremy Corbyn are leading. Just a tiny bit of critical thinking from the British public would probably lead them question what those 'betters' are telling us.

Edited 19 May 2019 by bovril

[Guest MattP]

1 hour ago, bovril said:

It was always going to happen when reality collided with Brexit fantasy. This was the reason some elements of leave made such outlandish claims during the referendum. They knew it was basically undeliverable and they could push the 'betrayed' line. 

 

Brexiters bought into the myth of British exceptionalism. The mistake mainstream politicians made was indulging it for too long. 

How should they have combated this myth?

 

I'm genuinely interested, how do you turn me to your side?

[Guest MattP]

48 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

As if the leading figures on both sides of the debate don't consider themselves "betters" (if you're going to view it from a cynical POV). It's not like the leading Brexit figures aren't "elites" themselves, is it?

 

Continuing in the same vein, the "public" are often as mean-spirited and self-interested as the people in power (they're human after all), except they don't often have the direct power to actually cause damage with those beliefs, so I consider the whole "man of the people" sentiment to be misplaced anyway.

Who should run countries if people are to mean spirited to vote for things you don't agree with? 

[leicsmac]

Just now, MattP said:

Who should run countries if people are to mean spirited to vote for things you don't agree with? 

Plato didn't have an answer to that (or he knew that his answer was flawed anyhow), so's everyone else's since, and so is mine - but here we are.

 

Representative democracy of the type the UK practices is at the same time both likely the best method of government that can be thought of at the present time in terms of allowing people the freedom of choice that any nation should aspire to and deeply, perhaps critically flawed when it comes to long-term planning.

[MC Prussian]

So several people in a crowd of about a hundred counterprotesters (most of the Muslims) attacked a Tommy Robinson rally in Oldham, throwing rocks and glass at the visitors...

Don't hate, debate.

 

Good see the Hamas school of insurgence has produced the proper goods - plus wearing balaclavas and sporting Palestinian flags. Very hard indeed.

Testament to civilization.

Edited 19 May 2019 by MC Prussian

[bovril]

7 minutes ago, MattP said:

How should they have combated this myth?

 

I'm genuinely interested, how do you turn me to your side?

Recognise the benefits of pooling sovereignty. Then don't set out red lines that require a deep separation from the EU without recognising there will potentially be adverse affects.  

 

But yeah if you don't agree with those things then I can't turn you to my side. 

[Carl the Llama]

7 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

So several people in a crowd of about a hundred counterprotesters (most of the Muslims) attacked a Tommy Robinson rally in Oldham, throwing rocks and glass at the visitors...

Don't hate, debate.

 

Also see the Hamas school of insurgence has produced the proper goods - plus wearing balaclavas and sporting Palestinian flags. Very hard indeed.

Is this still talking about the video?  I didn't see any flags... or am I being blind?