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[MC Prussian]

10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Is this still talking about the video?  I didn't see any flags... or am I being blind?

Different angle - available on YouTube.

[Buce]

10 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Is this still talking about the video?  I didn't see any flags... or am I being blind?

 

Kind of amazing how he can also identify the religion of a masked man.

[MC Prussian]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

Kind of amazing how he can also identify the religion of a masked man.

When the Muslim Defence League calls, it's a bit obvious.

[Carl the Llama]

11 minutes ago, MC Prussian said:

Different angle - available on YouTube.

Link?

[MC Prussian]

53 minutes ago, Carl the Llama said:

Link?

First one I found popping up on the list.

 

[Alf Bentley]

Marr was interesting today.

 

As with Farage last week, they'd really done their homework finding videos of the interviewees saying things a couple of years ago at odds with what they're saying now.

Also plenty of recent direct quotes from different Tory & Labour front-benchers saying the opposite from one another, used to put guests on the spot.

 

Awkward for all 5 of them, but Cable, Sturgeon & Rory Stewart just about coped. Umunna & Corbyn came across badly, I thought.

 

Some revelations, though.....

 

- Rory Stewart essentially agreed that he couldn't be in a Tory party led by a No Deal leader. He did say that he was trying to keep the Tory party as a broad church that would negotiate a Brexit deal. His stand for the leadership makes sense now, if he's anticipating a potential split in the Tory Party. He must know that he has zero chance of getting elected as leader of the current Tory party. So, he's presumably positioning himself as potential leader of a One Nation Tory Party if May's successor cannot get a deal passed and resorts to No Deal and/or some sort of alliance with the Brexit Party. On an individual level, he's one of the most impressive politicians in any party, but not sure there's much demand for a One Nation Tory Party just now?

 

- Corbyn was sticking to the same Brexit line as before, despite the Con-Lab talks collapsing. Given that Labour has already lost most of its Brexiteer voters and is now haemorrhaging Remainer support, this could have been the moment for him to turn round and say: "We've tried to honour the referendum result by negotiating a Soft Brexit deal, but it hasn't worked. May's deal is unacceptable, No Deal is unacceptable, so we have to support a Second Referendum". Instead, he was as mealy-mouthed as ever, going on about keeping the "option" to have a referendum once a deal is agreed (not "having a referendum" but "having the option").......and, er, how is a deal going to be agreed, Jezza, when the EU is disinclined to renegotiate & neither parliament nor the parties can agree anything? I presume the strategy is to accept growing public anger, a likely hammering in the EU elections & the risk of a harder Brexit under a new Tory leader or No Deal by default....in the hope that the Tories fall apart (possible) and/or we get a general election. Why he thinks the Tories would allow an early election if they'd be massacred, or that he'd win it when he's alienating all his support, I don't know. Looks like I'll be casting a protest vote for the Greens, then.

 

- Umunna said Change UK now rejects the idea of a referendum, as there isn't time, and supports revoking Article 50 instead. I was gobsmacked at that. I wonder what his People's Vote mates think of that? He & Soubry have been among its leading lights. I presume this is a desperate attempt to differentiate themselves from the Lib Dems? Cable's response was that there was still time for a referendum before October - a bit limp, surely the best response is that, if parliament voted for a referendum, the EU would gladly extend the deadline again (true, I'm sure)? Even as a Remainer, I think revoking now would be a democratic outrage. There's a case for and against a second referendum between Remain, a Brexit deal & No Deal, but no case at all for revoking. If the public had shifted en masse to staying in, fair enough, but they haven't - the nation's still divided & a lot of people still support Brexit. About the only circumstance where it would be justified now is if we're pushed to a binary choice between No Deal & Revoke....in which case, if we did revoke, we'd have to start looking at Brexit all over again, as just revoking and carrying on as before would be outrageous.

 

I wonder what the response of people like Starmer & Watson will be to Corbyn's stance? They might stay quiet until after the Euro elections, but there'll surely be internal strife if Labour gets hammered in these elections?

 

It was always possible that Brexit would trigger a major political realignment splitting both main parties. But I assumed it was unlikely as, realistically, both would have to split simultaneously - otherwise our electoral system could wipe out both halves of the party that split and hand a landslide to the party that didn't. It now looks like both could split simultaneously. Stewart & Watson both seem to be preparing for it, an ERG/Farage "understanding" seems feasible....

[Buce]

13 minutes ago, Alf Bentley said:

Marr was interesting today.

 

As with Farage last week, they'd really done their homework finding videos of the interviewees saying things a couple of years ago at odds with what they're saying now.

Also plenty of recent direct quotes from different Tory & Labour front-benchers saying the opposite from one another, used to put guests on the spot.

 

Awkward for all 5 of them, but Cable, Sturgeon & Rory Stewart just about coped. Umunna & Corbyn came across badly, I thought.

 

Some revelations, though.....

 

- Rory Stewart essentially agreed that he couldn't be in a Tory party led by a No Deal leader. He did say that he was trying to keep the Tory party as a broad church that would negotiate a Brexit deal. His stand for the leadership makes sense now, if he's anticipating a potential split in the Tory Party. He must know that he has zero chance of getting elected as leader of the current Tory party. So, he's presumably positioning himself as potential leader of a One Nation Tory Party if May's successor cannot get a deal passed and resorts to No Deal and/or some sort of alliance with the Brexit Party. On an individual level, he's one of the most impressive politicians in any party, but not sure there's much demand for a One Nation Tory Party just now?

 

- Corbyn was sticking to the same Brexit line as before, despite the Con-Lab talks collapsing. Given that Labour has already lost most of its Brexiteer voters and is now haemorrhaging Remainer support, this could have been the moment for him to turn round and say: "We've tried to honour the referendum result by negotiating a Soft Brexit deal, but it hasn't worked. May's deal is unacceptable, No Deal is unacceptable, so we have to support a Second Referendum". Instead, he was as mealy-mouthed as ever, going on about keeping the "option" to have a referendum once a deal is agreed (not "having a referendum" but "having the option").......and, er, how is a deal going to be agreed, Jezza, when the EU is disinclined to renegotiate & neither parliament nor the parties can agree anything? I presume the strategy is to accept growing public anger, a likely hammering in the EU elections & the risk of a harder Brexit under a new Tory leader or No Deal by default....in the hope that the Tories fall apart (possible) and/or we get a general election. Why he thinks the Tories would allow an early election if they'd be massacred, or that he'd win it when he's alienating all his support, I don't know. Looks like I'll be casting a protest vote for the Greens, then.

 

- Umunna said Change UK now rejects the idea of a referendum, as there isn't time, and supports revoking Article 50 instead. I was gobsmacked at that. I wonder what his People's Vote mates think of that? He & Soubry have been among its leading lights. I presume this is a desperate attempt to differentiate themselves from the Lib Dems? Cable's response was that there was still time for a referendum before October - a bit limp, surely the best response is that, if parliament voted for a referendum, the EU would gladly extend the deadline again (true, I'm sure)? Even as a Remainer, I think revoking now would be a democratic outrage. There's a case for and against a second referendum between Remain, a Brexit deal & No Deal, but no case at all for revoking. If the public had shifted en masse to staying in, fair enough, but they haven't - the nation's still divided & a lot of people still support Brexit. About the only circumstance where it would be justified now is if we're pushed to a binary choice between No Deal & Revoke....in which case, if we did revoke, we'd have to start looking at Brexit all over again, as just revoking and carrying on as before would be outrageous.

 

I wonder what the response of people like Starmer & Watson will be to Corbyn's stance? They might stay quiet until after the Euro elections, but there'll surely be internal strife if Labour gets hammered in these elections?

 

It was always possible that Brexit would trigger a major political realignment splitting both main parties. But I assumed it was unlikely as, realistically, both would have to split simultaneously - otherwise our electoral system could wipe out both halves of the party that split and hand a landslide to the party that didn't. It now looks like both could split simultaneously. Stewart & Watson both seem to be preparing for it, an ERG/Farage "understanding" seems feasible....

 

Corbyn can go fvck himself now.

 

He's trying to appease Brexit supporters who have already cut and run and alienating the Remain supporters by doing it. There was a poll yesterday which showed Labour would be neck and neck with Farage if they came out for a referendum but the stubborn old twat ignored it.

 

Greens for me too, Alf.

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

Greens for me too, Alf.

 

Count me in too Bucey !  ....   along with some mashed potato and a steak and kidney pie ...   yummy !!

 

 

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

Count me in too Bucey !  ....   along with some mashed potato and a steak and kidney pie ...   yummy !!

 

 

Did you seriously raid your fridge just to reply to the post??!!  

[Alf Bentley]

8 hours ago, MattP said:

Crazy. Farage is on course to be the kingmaker in the next GE.

 

Has there ever been a more vacuous pointless party than Change UK as well?

 

Could be the case, if there's an election this year, before Brexit is resolved one way or another.

 

24% might overstate their vote in a general election, as respondents will have Brexiti/Euros on their minds. In a general election, there'd be a lot more debate about other issues (tax/spend, public services etc.), though Brexit would still play a much bigger part than in 2017, when everyone assumed that it was just something that the Govt would sort out eventually. A 2019 election would be more of a "Brexit election", but not completely.

 

I wonder what the Brexit Party does if there's no early general election & Brexit is "sorted out" (insofar as it ever can be) by a deal, no-deal exit or referendum /reversal?

Farage's comments suggest he sees a future for his party beyond whatever happens with Brexit.... He'd certainly need a much wider platform in those circumstances. 

 

6 hours ago, MattP said:

Hopefully not - if we are going to have a proper Leaver in charge get one, not a buffoon who pretends to be one.

 

 

Sounds as if Raab is the "Hard Brexit, not Boris" candidate?

 

If Boris makes the last 2 that are put to members, it seems certain that he wins. So, are anti-Boris Brexiteer Tory MPs capable of ensuring that Raab and someone else get into the last 2 - and how would the party membership react to their darling Boris being "stitched up by the Westminster elite"?  Also, would moderate Tory MPs be happier with Raab than Boris? If so, a stitch-up might be feasible, I suppose, particularly if Raab ran with support from across the party.....remembering the days when Ken Clarke & John Redwood stood on a joint ticket and nearly won.

 

6 hours ago, Markyblue said:

Every politician in Westminster agreed to their partys manifesto pledges on brexit and most have gone back onit so their all liars. 

 

Labour's manifesto advocated a negotiated Soft Brexit, close to the Single Market & Customs Union and rejected No Deal as the worst possible outcome: https://labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/labour-manifesto-2017.pdf

 

The Tory manifesto advocated "a smooth & orderly departure" & "a deep & special partnership" & Britain staying "strong and united": https://www.conservatives.com/manifesto

 

If you go by manifestos, you'd have to say that Corbyn & May have both been attempting to implement their respective manifestos - and that those calling for either Fantasy Brexit, No Deal Brexit or a Second Referendum are going back on their manifestos.

 

But the world moves on, views change because of changed circumstances. Anyway, as @Strokes pointed out, manifestos are often ignored:

- The 1997 Labour manifesto promised a referendum on electoral reform

- The 2010 Lib Dem manifesto promised an end to tuition fees

- The 2017 Tory manifesto promised a massive "death tax" on pensioners' estates & was dumped even before the election 

[Countryfox]

1 minute ago, Milo said:

Did you seriously raid your fridge just to reply to the post??!!  

 

No mate ...   the mrs is just  starting the prep work ...    but I did make it into a small arrangement ...    I don’t post much at the mo but what I do post is top level stuff ...    or better known to most people as  ...   complete bolox ! ...   

[Izzy]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 I don’t post much at the mo 

.....until you’re next on holiday, when we’ll get hourly updates 

[Alf Bentley]

16 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Corbyn can go fvck himself now.

 

He's trying to appease Brexit supporters who have already cut and run and alienating the Remain supporters by doing it. There was a poll yesterday which showed Labour would be neck and neck with Farage if they came out for a referendum but the stubborn old twat ignored it.

 

Greens for me too, Alf.

 

I don't think he's deluding himself that this will help Labour's chances in the Euro elections. I presume he's written those off and is focusing strategically on hoping the Tories carry the can for the shitfest & he wins a subsequent general election, perhaps on the back of Farage taking more Tory than Labour votes. Massive risk in multiple ways....

 

But worth remembering that he's a genuine Eurosceptic. In his interview, he again mentioned UK control of competition policy. He's basically a Stalinist advocate of "socialism in one country".

This will cause as much mayhem in Labour as in the Tory Party, I think. Because Labour's members, MPs and voters are overwhelmingly pro-Remain (some would reluctantly accept a Soft Brexit, but nothing worse).

This isn't just "Blairite scum" either, or moderates like Watson & Starmer. Most of Momentum & the youth vote is pro-Remain - & even McDonnell comes across less Eurosceptic than Jezza.

[Milo]

I'm assuming Labour don't want to be in power, then? 

 

There is only one topic in town and the man leading Labour isn't particularly bothered about capitalising on the Tory implosion - it's a bit odd, no?

 

 

[Countryfox]

12 minutes ago, Izzy said:

.....until you’re next on holiday, when we’ll get hourly updates 

 

Well that’s just where you’re wrong young master Muzzett !! ...    cus I’ve just got back and didn’t post at all !!    Mainly cus we were on it all trip and I was just too busy ....   here’s a couple for you though ...   me and my bessie in some beautiful shirts and our weapon of choice..   San Miguel ..   nectar of the gods ...   

 

 

 

[Buce]

Just now, Milo said:

I'm assuming Labour don't want to be in power, then? 

 

There is only one topic in town and the man leading Labour isn't particularly bothered about capitalising on the Tory implosion - it's a bit odd, no?

 

 

 

Maybe. 

 

If Brexit happens, whoever is in government is going to blamed when everything turns to shit, those damn foreigners are still here and we don’t get the empire back. 

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Countryfox said:

 

Well that’s just where you’re wrong young master Muzzett !! ...    cus I’ve just got back and didn’t post at all !!    Mainly cus we were on it all trip and I was just too busy ....   here’s a couple for you though ...   me and my bessie in some beautiful shirts and our weapon of choice..   San Miguel ..   nectar of the gods ...   

 

 

 

 

Kinell. 

 

I’ve seen page 3 girls with smaller tits.

[Countryfox]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Kinell. 

 

I’ve seen page 3 girls with smaller tits.

 

Yup ..   ..   the fat fooker couldn’t even do his shirt up ...   23 stone of pure blubber ...    

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Countryfox said:

 

Yup ..   ..   the fat fooker couldn’t even do his shirt up ...   23 stone of pure blubber ...    

 

Couldn’t he have just made one out of the curtains like you did? 

 

[WigstonWanderer]

11 hours ago, Strokes said:

Surely the original reason to vote for Farage is because you feel you are not being listened too and feel like your opinion is being subverted. If people continue to disregard those voices it’s obvious he will gain more support.

Also, considering manifestos are not remotely stuck too in my lifetime and all PMs have been proven liars, it really isn’t that shocking.

If you’re a Farage voter then perhaps there’s a good reason you’re not being listened to.

[Strokes]

37 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

If you’re a Farage voter then perhaps there’s a good reason you’re not being listened to.

I’m not the one decrying a surge in votes for him, I’d have voted his party regardless of whether I was listened too or not. I vote for them because of the people it triggers, it amuses me.

[bovril]

Just now, Strokes said:

I’m not the one decrying a surge in votes for him, I’d have voted his party regardless of whether I was listened too or not. I vote for them because of the people it triggers, it amuses me.

I have to say I find this quite odd. I'm reasonably confident that Farage isn't the answer to this country's problems and his brand of politics would make things worse. The fact that he winds up some insufferable people on twitter doesn't really make me feel better. 

[Strokes]

8 minutes ago, bovril said:

I have to say I find this quite odd. I'm reasonably confident that Farage isn't the answer to this country's problems and his brand of politics would make things worse. The fact that he winds up some insufferable people on twitter doesn't really make me feel better. 

I’m not voting to please you or entertain anyone else though am I? I find it amusing and the other options are shit, I don’t find his brand of politics disturbing and I have no interest in maintaining the status quo. It’s a match made in heaven.

[leicsmac]

3 hours ago, Strokes said:

I’m not voting to please you or entertain anyone else though am I? I find it amusing and the other options are shit, I don’t find his brand of politics disturbing and I have no interest in maintaining the status quo. It’s a match made in heaven.

 

No wonder the Ancient Greeks had so much trouble thinking about ideal governance.

[urban.spaceman]

7 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

 

No wonder the Ancient Greeks had so much trouble thinking about ideal governance.

?Socrates himself was permanently pisssssssssssssssssssed?