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[iniesta]

Funny how one minute the referendum wasn't specific enough in terms of what type of brexit we want, but now votes for conservatives or labour definitely means remain when both parties are split on their positions

[BlueSi13]

3 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I'm a remainer and voted for Labour. The Labour vote should be added to the second referendum vote (which is all I was suggesting - not that it's necessarily remain), given that it was Labour's position going into this.

Labour's official position is to respect the result of the referendum.

 

If you base things on where parties officially stand it's currently 59% leave.

 

Caroline Flint is making it clear that it would be a mistake for Labour for suddenly become a remain/2nd referendum party.  It's already haemorrhaged most of its remain votes to the Liberal Democrats and Greens tonight IMO.

 

But it's early yet.

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I'm a remainer and voted for Labour. The Labour vote should be added to the second referendum vote (which is all I was suggesting - not that it's necessarily remain), given that it was Labour's position going into this.

Is that their official position now? I wasn’t aware of that.

I’d not counted their vote towards it because I still thought their position was ambiguous.

[Dr The Singh]

People want out

 

 

[Strokes]

6 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I'm a remainer and voted for Labour. The Labour vote should be added to the second referendum vote (which is all I was suggesting - not that it's necessarily remain), given that it was Labour's position going into this.

Someone should tell Tom Watson.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/tom-watson-labour-must-find-backbone-and-back-second-referendum-on-brexit-11728671

[Mark_w]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Is that their official position now? I wasn’t aware of that.

I’d not counted their vote towards it because I still thought their position was ambiguous.

I concede that it's not been clear enough, the only Corbyn interview I've seen in the run-up he seemed to confirm that. See above from 2:57.

[Dr The Singh]

5 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Someone should tell Tom Watson.

 

https://news.sky.com/story/tom-watson-labour-must-find-backbone-and-back-second-referendum-on-brexit-11728671

No point

[BlueSi13]

1 minute ago, Mark_w said:

I concede that it's not been clear enough, the only Corbyn interview I've seen in the run-up he seemed to confirm that. See above from 2:57.

https://labour.org.uk/issues/labours-plan-brexit/

 

"Labour respects the result of the referendum, and Britain is leaving the EU."

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I concede that it's not been clear enough, the only Corbyn interview I've seen in the run-up he seemed to confirm that. See above from 2:57.

Its madness, he clearly does say so when pushed into the corner. ?

[urban.spaceman]

I am honestly clearer on Corbyn’s stance on Jews than I am of Brexit. 

[Strokes]

3 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I am honestly clearer on Corbyn’s stance on Jews than I am of Brexit. 

They are ok so long as they are clean shaven and not wearing hats. iirc.

[What the Fuchs?]

18 minutes ago, Strokes said:

Is that their official position now? I wasn’t aware of that.

I’d not counted their vote towards it because I still thought their position was ambiguous.

It’s safer for the leadership to sit on the fence publicly while the whole issue is still up in the air, say one thing and they risk alienating their supporters who supported the other. Why risk sticking their necks out when doing so would also potentially help the Tories get out of this mess and claim a victory - the policy is clearly let them screw everything up so a GE can be called.

 

Doesnt help that JC is opposed to the EU personally with the divisions in Labour, but to openly admit it would surely earn him the support that might have otherwise gone to the Tories?

[Sampson]

If anyone else had Labour results tonight and their leader would be gone the same way as May. Corbyn's hardcore party membership driving out anyone who opposes him will keep him in though.

 

Miles behind the Lib Dems now and could even finish behind the Greens in 4th.

 

I've never known the 2 big parties to be so awful and universally hated as they are right now though. Hopefully this ends the 2 party domination for good.

[What the Fuchs?]

5 minutes ago, urban.spaceman said:

I am honestly clearer on Corbyn’s stance on Jews than I am of Brexit. 

All this talk in media about anti-semitism in the Labour Party, and every time I click on a BBC article they conveniently don’t give any examples. That’s cos too many people like one of those that joined the Independent Group openly conflate criticism of the policies of Israel with anti-semitism

[BlueSi13]

Just now, Sampson said:

If anyone else had Labour results tonight and their leader would be gone the same way as May. Corbyn's hardcore party membership driving put anyone who opposes him will keep him in though.

 

Miles behind the Lib Dems now and could even finish behind the Greens in 4th.

 

I've known the 2 big parties to be so awful and universally hated as thet ate right now though. Hopefully this ends the 2 party domination fof good.

All eyes on the Conservatives now for me.  If they do not learn their lesson from these results I think this could be the start of something far larger.

[Strokes]

2 minutes ago, What the Fuchs? said:

It’s safer for the leadership to sit on the fence publicly while the whole issue is still up in the air, say one thing and they risk alienating their supporters who supported the other. Why risk sticking their necks out when doing so would also potentially help the Tories get out of this mess and claim a victory - the policy is clearly let them screw everything up so a GE can be called.

 

Doesnt help that JC is opposed to the EU personally with the divisions in Labour, but to openly admit it would surely earn him the support that might have otherwise gone to the Tories?

The vote is becoming so polarised, sitting on the fence could alienate both sides if they aren’t careful.

[urban.spaceman]

 

[Mark_w]

7 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

All eyes on the Conservatives now for me.  If they do not learn their lesson from these results I think this could be the start of something far larger.

I don't see what lesson they could learn from this that would help them? They can't get a deal through parliament and they won't be able to. They've lost large numbers of voters to both the most unequivocally leave and the most unequivocally remain parties. There's no mandate in parliament or from the people based on this vote for a no-deal Brexit. What do they learn? That they've f***ed the country, and themselves, and they're going to be punished for it too?

[BlueSi13]

23 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

I don't see what lesson they could learn from this that would help them? They can't get a deal through parliament and they won't be able to. They've lost large numbers of voters to both the most unequivocally leave and the most unequivocally remain parties. There's no mandate in parliament or from the people based on this vote for a no-deal Brexit. What do they learn? That they've f***ed the country, and themselves, and they're going to be punished for it too?

They must learn that unless they become a clean Brexit party they will stand absolutely no chance of ever winning a General Election.  That couldn't be clearer looking at the results tonight.

 

I believe if tonight's results were replicated in a general election I believe the Brexit Party would win over 400 seats,

[Spiritwalker]

1 hour ago, BlueSi13 said:

Labour's official position is to respect the result of the referendum.

 

If you base things on where parties officially stand it's currently 59% leave.

 

Caroline Flint is making it clear that it would be a mistake for Labour for suddenly become a remain/2nd referendum party.  It's already haemorrhaged most of its remain votes to the Liberal Democrats and Greens tonight IMO.

 

But it's early yet.

Sorry, are you trying to argue that everyone who voted for Labour in the EU election is a leave voter?

Well I have heard some shite on here but this takes the biscuit.

[Mark_w]

Just now, BlueSi13 said:

They must learn that unless they become a clean Brexit party they will stand absolutely no chance of ever winning a General Election.  That couldn't be clearer looking at the results tonight.

 

I believe if tonight's results were replicated in a general election I believe the Brexit Party would win over 400 seats,

Tonight's results wouldn't be replicated in a general election though. There's a reason UKIP's previous success in EU elections translated into f*** all in general elections.

[Strokes]

1 minute ago, Mark_w said:

Tonight's results wouldn't be replicated in a general election though. There's a reason UKIP's previous success in EU elections translated into f*** all in general elections.

Partly due to Cameron promising a referendum.

[BlueSi13]

Just now, Spiritwalker said:

Sorry, are you trying to argue that everyone who voted for Labour in the EU election is a leave voter?

Well I have heard some shite on here but this takes the biscuit.

Absolutely not.  But considering Labour's official position is still to leave, it's completely valid to question what % of Labour's voters are remainers and how many they have already lost to the Liberal Democrats and Greens.  

[BlueSi13]

3 minutes ago, Mark_w said:

Tonight's results wouldn't be replicated in a general election though. There's a reason UKIP's previous success in EU elections translated into f*** all in general elections.

That's because UKIP demanded a referendum on EU membership.  David Cameron and the Conservatives knew that if they didn't offer it they stood no chance in the General Election.  The rest is history...

[Spiritwalker]

5 minutes ago, BlueSi13 said:

They must learn that unless they become a clean Brexit party they will stand absolutely no chance of ever winning a General Election.  That couldn't be clearer looking at the results tonight.

 

I believe if tonight's results were replicated in a general election I believe the Brexit Party would win over 400 seats,

WOW