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[Legend_in_blue]

Brexit Party - 400 seats?  

 

If you look at the figures carefully, it points to remain having a larger share.  All Labour, Corbyn, need to do is come off the fence and push with the Lib Dem stance on the issue.  The Tories don't have the numbers to take anything through, No Deal will be prevented via No Confidence and there will be a GE by the end of the year.

[Leicester_Loyal]

9 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Brexit Party - 400 seats?  

 

If you look at the figures carefully, it points to remain having a larger share.  All Labour, Corbyn, need to do is come off the fence and push with the Lib Dem stance on the issue.  The Tories don't have the numbers to take anything through, No Deal will be prevented via No Confidence and there will be a GE by the end of the year. 

Once again, the PM can leave with a no deal, it doesn't have to go through parliament. The votes that were previously held by MPs to prevent a no deal were part of the WA.

 

Plenty of people who voted leave didn't bother voting in this, as it was never meant to happen. Additionally just by voting Lib Dems, Greens or Change UK doesn't automatically mean you agree with their Brexit stance. What this says is that the country is pretty much 50/50 divided, as it has always been.

[Guest Kopfkino]

A polarised country desperately trying to ascertain preferences from a set of results on a relatively low turnout to support exactly what they themselves want. Colour me surprised. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

1 minute ago, Kopfkino said:

A polarised country desperately trying to ascertain preferences from a set of results on a relatively low turnout to support exactly what they themselves want. Colour me surprised.  

This.

 

The only result that really matters was the one in 2016.

[BlueSi13]

19 minutes ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Brexit Party - 400 seats?  

 

If you look at the figures carefully, it points to remain having a larger share.  All Labour, Corbyn, need to do is come off the fence and push with the Lib Dem stance on the issue.  The Tories don't have the numbers to take anything through, No Deal will be prevented via No Confidence and there will be a GE by the end of the year.

But it doesn't?  Leave parties have just won 58% of the vote.  Take Labour out and it's still 44% Leave vs 40% Remain.  Don't forget that European citizens have been eligible to vote in these elections and turnout has been low in Brexit voting areas and higher in Remain voting areas.

 

That's why some Labour MP's have been strongly warning against a knee jerk reaction to Remain.  Surely a huge % of Labour remainers voted Liberal Democrat or Green in these elections?  The % swings suggest so. 

[What the Fuchs?]

1 hour ago, Legend_in_blue said:

Brexit Party - 400 seats?  

 

If you look at the figures carefully, it points to remain having a larger share.  All Labour, Corbyn, need to do is come off the fence and push with the Lib Dem stance on the issue.  The Tories don't have the numbers to take anything through, No Deal will be prevented via No Confidence and there will be a GE by the end of the year.

Remember that the Tories have pretty much controlled the narrative forever with their dominance of media influence; the only papers that are sympathetic to Labour are the Mirror and the Guardian to an extent. If Labour publicly distance themselves from unequivocally seeking to uphold the referendum result then they run the risk of being slandered for betraying the public and so forth - The Torres will milk that for all it’s worth.

 

This danger means that the two main parties will always have confused but largely pro-Brexit stances which is going to throw politics for the near future up in the air as other factions like the Lib Dem’s, the SNP and the Brexit Party fill the void where clear Tory/Labour opposition to one another once stood.

 

On the other hand maybe the EU vote has skewed our perception of how much support there actually is for each party - I’m a Labour supporter for instance, but I just couldn’t be arsed to vote in an election to a body we more than likely will be leaving soon. Who knows how many Tory/Labour supporters felt this way, while a chance to protest galvanised the Lib Dems and Nigel Farage fans

[leicsmac]

2 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

This.

 

The only result that really matters was the one in 2016.

Agreeing with Kopf's sentiment and then following it up with the second sentence here rather contradict each other IMO.

 

On general matters, I'm agreeing with Kopf too, there's so much polarisation I can't see a solution or conclusion that won't result in big unrest no matter what way it goes. Something, perhaps, that should have been considered more before all this sorry mess began.

[WigstonWanderer]

6 hours ago, What the Fuchs? said:

All this talk in media about anti-semitism in the Labour Party, and every time I click on a BBC article they conveniently don’t give any examples. That’s cos too many people like one of those that joined the Independent Group openly conflate criticism of the policies of Israel with anti-semitism

Yes I’ve noticed that. As someone who is actually part Jewish, I do not equate criticism of the state of Israel with anti semitism any more than say criticism of Vladimir Putin is the same as being anti Russian. Nevertheless I guess it’s a fine line as anti Israel types probably also include genuine anti semites.

[Innovindil]

I'm just glad labour and tories got shit on tbh. One thing the majority of us here agree on is that it's been an absolute shambles from start to finish from both of them. 

[Buce]

 

The best result of the night has to be Tommy Robinson humiliated by losing his deposit.

[Guest MattP]

7 hours ago, Mark_w said:

I'm a remainer and voted for Labour. The Labour vote should be added to the second referendum vote (which is all I was suggesting - not that it's necessarily remain), given that it was Labour's position going into this.

 And I'm adding the Lib Dem vote to the hard Brexit numbers.

 

Labour's position is to respect the result of the referendum and leave the European Union.

 

I feel for Corbyn on the issue, he's now behind the Lib Dems in Islington but places like Wigan and Bolsover went to the Brexit Party with nearly 50% of the vote - impossible position for his party.

[Buce]

6 hours ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

Once again, the PM can leave with a no deal, it doesn't have to go through parliament. The votes that were previously held by MPs to prevent a no deal were part of the WA.

 

Plenty of people who voted leave didn't bother voting in this, as it was never meant to happen. Additionally just by voting Lib Dems, Greens or Change UK doesn't automatically mean you agree with their Brexit stance. What this says is that the country is pretty much 50/50 divided, as it has always been.

1

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/brexit-top-tories-would-bring-down-any-pm-who-backs-no-deal

[Strokes]

17 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

The best result of the night has to be Tommy Robinson humiliated by losing his deposit.

Maybe there aren’t quite as many nasty racists as was once portrayed ?

[Buce]

Just now, Strokes said:

Maybe there aren’t quite as many nasty racists as was once portrayed ?

 

Maybe.

 

Or maybe they found a new home with Farage...

[BlueSi13]

12 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/26/brexit-top-tories-would-bring-down-any-pm-who-backs-no-deal

Those "Tories" who have spoken about supporting a No Confidence motion to stop a WTO Brexit may soon have to decide whether to walk the walk.  If they went ahead and did that they will surely now wake up this morning realising that the Brexit Party will destroy them in a General Election which would then open the door to a Marxist government.

 

What will be worse in their eyes?

[Guest MattP]

46 minutes ago, Buce said:

The best result of the night has to be Tommy Robinson humiliated by losing his deposit.

Not to mention Gavin Esler and Lord Adonis.

 

The latter hilariously humiliating given Labour HQ made him do a public U-Turn on his desire for a second referendum for the top preference slot and they got wiped out

[Captain...]

These results will not be reflected in a GE. Nobody supports the Brexit party on anything other than their stance on Europe. Very few people want Farage as PM for a GE most people will revert to type voting Tory and Labour because they better represent their views on everything not just a single issue. 

 

If a GE is called I would hope it is coupled with a second referendum, which is campaigned on separately stating various options, no deal, any proposed deals, customs unions, back stops, single market, Norway+ and remain where everyone who votes can vote for the party they want and have their say on Brexit. Keep the campaigning about domestic policy.

[Guest MattP]

1 minute ago, Captain... said:

If a GE is called I would hope it is coupled with a second referendum, which is campaigned on separately stating various options, no deal, any proposed deals, customs unions, back stops, single market, Norway+ and remain where everyone who votes can vote for the party they want and have their say on Brexit. Keep the campaigning about domestic policy.

There is no mandate whatsoever for a second referendum and it doesn't have the numbers in parliament to pass.

[WigstonWanderer]

15 minutes ago, MattP said:

There is no mandate whatsoever for a second referendum and it doesn't have the numbers in parliament to pass.

If you’re referring to these results I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion. Tories, Brexit & UKIP are clearly in a (large) minority and every other party is in favour of an second referendum.

 

Time for Labour to come out and say bollocks to Brexit and give some clear leadership for a new referendum. All this kowtowing to a thin majority in a vote 3 years ago that has invited chaos and humiliation on the UK and promises years of the same to come needs to come to an end.

[Captain...]

24 minutes ago, MattP said:

There is no mandate whatsoever for a second referendum and it doesn't have the numbers in parliament to pass.

There is no mandate for anything Brexit is completely destroying politics and a GE that happens whilst Brexit is unresolved will be dominated by a single issue to the detriment of the country as a whole.

[Strokes]

15 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

If you’re referring to these results I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion. Tories, Brexit & UKIP are clearly in a (large) minority and every other party is in favour of an second referendum.

 

Time for Labour to come out and say bollocks to Brexit and give some clear leadership for a new referendum. All this kowtowing to a thin majority in a vote 3 years ago that has invited chaos and humiliation on the UK and promises years of the same to come needs to come to an end.

Yeah labour hold the balance currently in this, unfortunately they’ve been fiddling to both sides. Now is the time for them to come out and decide which side of the fence they are on. 

[Guest MattP]

33 minutes ago, WigstonWanderer said:

If you’re referring to these results I’m not sure how you come to that conclusion. Tories, Brexit & UKIP are clearly in a (large) minority and every other party is in favour of an second referendum.

 

Time for Labour to come out and say bollocks to Brexit and give some clear leadership for a new referendum. All this kowtowing to a thin majority in a vote 3 years ago that has invited chaos and humiliation on the UK and promises years of the same to come needs to come to an end.

Why do you keep pushing this lie that Labour is in favour of a second referendum?

 

At this point in time - Labour policy is to negotiate a withdrawal from the EU after getting a General Election - failing that's it's the "OPTION" of a second referendum. 

 

There is some ludicrous assessment going on now just to try and claim the result is exactly what they want.

[Mark_w]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

 And I'm adding the Lib Dem vote to the hard Brexit numbers.

 

Labour's position is to respect the result of the referendum and leave the European Union.

 

I feel for Corbyn on the issue, he's now behind the Lib Dems in Islington but places like Wigan and Bolsover went to the Brexit Party with nearly 50% of the vote - impossible position for his party.

Well Matt, all I can say is that (and I appreciate he didn't say it enough - and that you wouldn't know he did based on the news) Corbyn confirmed there would need to be a People's Vote prior to the election, I for one both want a People's Vote and voted Labour (on the grounds that if we do stay in the EU I'm best represented by Labour).

[Captain...]

11 minutes ago, MattP said:

Why do you keep pushing this lie that Labour is in favour of a second referendum?

 

At this point in time - Labour policy is to negotiate a withdrawal from the EU after getting a General Election - failing that's it's the "OPTION" of a second referendum. 

 

There is some ludicrous assessment going on now just to try and claim the result is exactly what they want.

I think we need to exclude Labour and conservative votes when doing any sort of analysis nobody was clear on what they stood for and most votes were probably dyed in the wool voters who voted out of loyalty more than anything else. If you look at those that were clear in their stance on remain Green, LD and change uk got more votes than Brexit and UKIP. If you include the votes for PC and SNP which are obviously not pure remain votes then you can argue that more people voted Remain than hard Brexit. 

[BlueSi13]

9 minutes ago, Captain... said:

I think we need to exclude Labour and conservative votes when doing any sort of analysis nobody was clear on what they stood for and most votes were probably dyed in the wool voters who voted out of loyalty more than anything else. If you look at those that were clear in their stance on remain Green, LD and change uk got more votes than Brexit and UKIP. If you include the votes for PC and SNP which are obviously not pure remain votes then you can argue that more people voted Remain than hard Brexit. 

When talking about WTO Brexit I don't think you can discount the Conservative vote.  Remember their official policy is still to leave the single market, leave the customs union, end freedom of movement and end the jurisdiction of the ECJ.  This is referred to by many as a "Hard" Brexit.