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[leicsmac]

19 minutes ago, Kopfkino said:

Well I'd hazard a guess that if he supports a no deal, he's not much of a free trader anyway. 

 

But the UK could sign away agriculture for example in return for increased access to the US market for UK services. Tbf I don't really know enough about China's trade policy to know what they'd want but the UK could again secure more access for its services. I'm not saying that's an optimal thing to do but its an option. The general point being is it 'better' to negotiate as a bloc because its more powerful or is it better to negotiate alone with the ability to leverage facets of your trade policy more easily and actually have a debate over trade policy?

 

 

Do we have anything agricultural that the US actually would want or can't produce themselves if they so wished? Again, I'm genuinely curious about that because I don't know (but as a guess I wouldn't think so).

 

I'm just trying to think of stuff that the UK does that is unique that would make for a crucial negotiating point with either of the two global gorillas, especially when they both have governments intent on the best for themselves and themsleves only and everyone else can go hang. When that is the case, having a critical resource or service that only you can provide becomes even more crucial if you want to go it alone IMO.

 

High end tech development, perhaps? Though the US and Chinese (or parts of) are hardly slouches there, either.

[Lionator]

9 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Do we have anything agricultural that the US actually would want or can't produce themselves if they so wished? Again, I'm genuinely curious about that because I don't know (but as a guess I wouldn't think so).

 

I'm just trying to think of stuff that the UK does that is unique that would make for a crucial negotiating point with either of the two global gorillas, especially when they both have governments intent on the best for themselves and themsleves only and everyone else can go hang. When that is the case, having a critical resource or service that only you can provide becomes even more crucial if you want to go it alone IMO.

 

High end tech development, perhaps? Though the US and Chinese (or parts of) are hardly slouches there, either.

The US would have our trousers down when it comes to a new trade deal, especially if Trump wins in 2020. Trading on WTO alone would be an unmitigated disaster. 

[Lionator]

52 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

We will see.

 

The EU project is going so well in France, Germany, Greece and various other countries at the moment. Have you seen how much more money the major economies will have to stump up to cover us leaving the 27? Why are we paying £39 billion to put ourselves in a worse position.

 

It's hilarious some of the comments on here, such as the one above about us refusing to face up to the realities of the modern world. What makes your opinion better than mine? None of us know how a no deal will affect the country.

 

We'll see what occurs once a new leader is elected. There must be a lot of people like me who obviously refuse to face up to the realities of the situation, especially considering the BP is polling 1% behind Labour in the GE polls.

 

 

PS. The country must be going to the dogs

Theresa May does hence why she went back on her word and why Boris is already talking in the same manner. Pretty much every evidenced prediction has stated that it would be a disaster. 

The reality of the situation is that Farage & the no dealers (great punk band name) are continually selling you a lie and an impossible dream. If it was possible we'd have left without a deal at the end of March. 

[Guest Kopfkino]

17 minutes ago, leicsmac said:

Do we have anything agricultural that the US actually would want or can't produce themselves if they so wished? Again, I'm genuinely curious about that because I don't know (but as a guess I wouldn't think so).

 

I'm just trying to think of stuff that the UK does that is unique that would make for a crucial negotiating point with either of the two global gorillas, especially when they both have governments intent on the best for themselves and themsleves only and everyone else can go hand. When that is the case, having a critical resource or service that only you can provide becomes even more crucial if you want to go it alone IMO.

 

High end tech development, perhaps? Though the US and Chinese (or parts of) are hardly slouches there, either.

No I meant as in the UK could sign away its agricultural industry, as in completely open up to US competition and do damage to its own agricultural industry. Agriculture is normally difficult in trade negotiations because both sides usually want to protect it but its one area the UK (since the late 1800s) has allowed to lose out. 

 

In respect to China, the UK you'd say has the advantage in luxury consumer goods, vehicles and some engineering stuff and ofc in many tradable services (they'd love easier access to London's financial services, probably IT and comms too)  but its hard to open up trade in services and I don't know China's trade well enough to know where they'd want us to give ground.

[ealingfox]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

 

What has Andrea Leadsom ever actually done? It genuinely annoys me that she's seen as a contender. The second worst kind of Tory after the Bullingdon mob.

[Guest MattP]

13 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

 

What has Andrea Leadsom ever actually done? It genuinely annoys me that she's seen as a contender. The second worst kind of Tory after the Bullingdon mob.

Tbf she's been superb as leader of the house - even been praised when she left by opponents like Jess Philipps yesterday. 

 

Not PM material though. 

[David Guiza]

15 minutes ago, ealingfox said:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-48395611

 

What has Andrea Leadsom ever actually done? It genuinely annoys me that she's seen as a contender. The second worst kind of Tory after the Bullingdon mob.

She thinks Jane Austen is one of our greatest living writers, so you can't knock her literature knowledge. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

I won't get into a huge debate on here, I've spent all day doing it. All I will say is that before the referendum, we were told that by now we'd be in a recession now with a million job losses (if we voted to leave). Predictions are quite frankly a guess or a lie to try and convince people into voting the way the talker wants them to vote.

[Buce]

36 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I won't get into a huge debate on here, I've spent all day doing it. All I will say is that before the referendum, we were told that by now we'd be in a recession now with a million job losses (if we voted to leave). Predictions are quite frankly a guess or a lie to try and convince people into voting the way the talker wants them to vote.

 

 

Yeah, thought as much.

 

When it boils down to it, it's just blind faith, the same as Farage et al have been spouting all along, an unsubstantiated belief that everything will be ok because we have the Dunkirk spirit. Well, I have news for you - Dunkirk was an ignominious defeat, not the victory it's always proclaimed to be.

[Benguin]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, thought as much.

 

When it boils down to it, it's just blind faith, the same as Farage et al have been spouting all along, an unsubstantiated belief that everything will be ok because we have the Dunkirk spirit. Well, I have news for you - Dunkirk was an ignominious defeat, not the victory it's always proclaimed to be.

I think you mixed up blind faith with uncertainty. There’s a difference. Although no one could have envisaged the shit show the government have put on in getting us out of Europe so maybe there was blind faith there. 

 

Hopefully the Brexit Party will do really well to demonstrate we still want out and Theresa May stepping down spawns a stronger government and then we can have more clarity and focus on Brexit. 

 

 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, Benguin said:

I think you mixed up blind faith with uncertainty. There’s a difference. Although no one could have envisaged the shit show the government have put on in getting us out of Europe so maybe there was blind faith there. 

 

Hopefully the Brexit Party will do really well to demonstrate we still want out and Theresa May stepping down spawns a stronger government and then we can have more clarity and focus on Brexit. 

 

 

 

Nice of you to tell me what I meant to say but I used the words I intended to.

 

Thanks, though.

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Leicester_Loyal said:

I won't get into a huge debate on here, I've spent all day doing it. All I will say is that before the referendum, we were told that by now we'd be in a recession now with a million job losses (if we voted to leave). Predictions are quite frankly a guess or a lie to try and convince people into voting the way the talker wants them to vote.

Well at least you've proven that there are a lot of people like you out there.

 

If you feel like answering my questions tomorrow would love to read it.

[Benguin]

3 minutes ago, FIF said:

Well at least you've proven that there are a lot of people like you out there.

 

If you feel like answering my questions tomorrow would love to read it.

Don’t worry there are lots of people like you as well! 

[Countryfox]

 

Poor old Tezza ...   had me and Mrs cf blubbing too ...     

 

Soon as wee willie kranky came on the telly had to go off though ...

[Buce]

 

So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing:

 

What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors?

[Bryn]

Oh good, we're going to get a thick racist Prime Minister to go with our thick racist Brexit-loving populace.

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Bryn said:

Oh good, we're going to get a thick racist Prime Minister to go with our thick racist Brexit-loving populace.

Careful, bud

[Milo]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing:

 

What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors?

Nothing at all democratic about it - same way that Gordon Brown got to lead the country, no? 

[SouthStandUpperTier]

8 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing:

 

What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors?

I agree. But tbf it's still more democratic than when Blair handed over the job of PM to Gordon Brown.

[Buce]

3 minutes ago, Milo said:

Nothing at all democratic about it - same way that Gordon Brown got to lead the country, no? 

 

1 minute ago, SouthStandUpperTier said:

I agree. But tbf it's still more democratic than when Blair handed over the job of PM to Gordon Brown.

 

That's a straw man argument, as you are both aware.

[Guest Kopfkino]

7 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing:

 

What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors?

 

Well yeah this is a problem both of the main parties have now created. By prioritising party democracy they've done something wholly undemocratic for the nation whereby a select group of people have paid for the privilege to choose the Prime Minister without being accountable. At least Brown was effectively selected to be unopposed by Labour MPs whom are answerable to the public in at least some way. 

[Milo]

1 minute ago, Buce said:

 

 

That's a straw man argument, as you are both aware.

Not really - you asked what is democratic about selecting a leader mid term. 

 

There isn't anything particularly democratic about the process. No different across all parties.

 

Just so happens that if it's the party in power that is doing it, the leader becomes PM.

 

For what it's worth, I thought Major and Brown were both pretty decent types. 

[Leicester_Loyal]

59 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

Yeah, thought as much.

 

When it boils down to it, it's just blind faith, the same as Farage et al have been spouting all along, an unsubstantiated belief that everything will be ok because we have the Dunkirk spirit. Well, I have news for you - Dunkirk was an ignominious defeat, not the victory it's always proclaimed to be.

Buce, read my posts in this thread. I've spent 3 years arguing my side of the toss, yet you still won't accept it. Much like I disagree with your point of view. Unlike you and others in here though, I won't call you thick, I won't say your stupid, I won't say the country is going to the dogs and I won't try to change your mind. You're entitled to your opinion just as much as I am, you're not better than me, you might think you're smarter, you may think I am a bigot, you may think I am racist, plenty of us have had this thrown at us for 3 years.

 

Enjoy your evening.

 

EDIT: Just to add, I have nothing against anyone on here please don't take anything I say personal, it just annoys me that people would rather throw insults and derogatory comments rather than accept others have a different viewpoint to them.

[SouthStandUpperTier]

3 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

 

That's a straw man argument, as you are both aware.

Not long to wait for the next GE now @Buce.

[Leicester_Loyal]

22 minutes ago, Buce said:

 

So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing:

 

What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors?

 

What's laughable is that this is the worst Tory Government the country has ever seen, and Labour are still only 3 or 4 points ahead of them in the latest GE polls