Benguin Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 13 hours ago, Buce said: So, Brexiters, on the subject of democracy that you're so fond of discussing: What's democratic about our nation's Prime Minister being decided by 100,000 or so elderly, right-wing voters; what about the democratic rights of the other 46 million electors? I don’t think Brexiters disagree with you, I don’t anyway.
Nick Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 In other belated news it’s worth noting that whilst all this is going on our privatised Criminal Justice system under G4S, Carillion & Interserve remains the same stupid Govian enterprise it always has been only now Government are having to step in and bring Prisons and Probation Services back into the Public Sector because the focus of profit over care and rehabilitation continues to be an exercise for the few not the many and their unqualified failings put prisoners and the public at risk of serious harm. I’d like Tory members to consider this before they vote for the next imbecile that holds these values like BJ and MG. https://www.ft.com/content/c5935758-7730-11e9-bbad-7c18c0ea0201 https://www.tuc.org.uk/blogs/government-finally-admits-g4s-cant-be-trusted-run-birmingham-prison
Nick Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 UK privatisation Probation services renationalised after chaotic privatisation Chief inspector says current system is ‘irredeemably flawed’ Justice secretary David Gauke is planning to take back control of all management work under the National Probation Service © Reuters May 15, 2019 11:01 pm by Helen Warrell in London Ministers are to renationalise the management of probation services in England and Wales after the failure of a chaotic privatisation that put public safety at risk. David Gauke, justice secretary, will announce on Thursday that the publicly run National Probation Service is to take back control of all management work, ending a regime that outsourced supervision of all but the highest-risk offenders to eight companies, including Sodexo. Several of the companies expressed disappointment at the move, saying the changes would create a more fragmented system that would increase costs. The part-privatisation of probation services in 2015 by Chris Grayling, justice secretary at the time, split probation work into 21 regional contracts worth £3.7bn to the outsourcing companies over seven years. It was intended to bring down reoffending rates and inject innovation into the rehabilitation of ex-prisoners but the system has been beset by difficulties. Glenys Stacey, the chief inspector of probation, warned this year that the current system was “irredeemably flawed”. Parliament’s spending watchdog criticised the probation service as presenting “significant risks” to both offenders and the wider public. In February, Working Links, one of the private providers, collapsed after four years of poor service and failing efforts to maintain a lossmaking contract. The outsourced contracts were due to last until 2022 but Mr Gauke intervened last year to shorten the contracts, which will now end in December 2020. Under the new model, the private sector will no longer manage offenders directly but will be able to tender to run training and rehabilitation courses worth up to £280m a year. Each of the regions will have a private or voluntary sector “innovation partner” responsible for providing the courses. The Ministry of Justice will now begin a market-testing phase ready to bring the new contracts into effect in the spring of 2021. Mr Gauke said: “I want a smarter justice system that reduces repeat crime by providing robust community alternatives to ineffective short prison sentences — supporting offenders to turn away from crime for good. “The model we are announcing today will harness the skills of private and voluntary providers and draw on the expertise of the [National Probation Service] to boost rehabilitation, improve standards and ultimately increase public safety.” Probation services deal with more than 250,000 offenders in England and Wales, including inmates preparing to leave jail, ex-prisoners living in the community and those on serving community or suspended sentences. Recommended Why prisons should never be privatised Dame Glenys said she was “delighted” at Mr Gauke’s decision, and noted that it had proved “well-nigh impossible” to outsource the work successfully. She acknowledged that probation professionals would face yet more upheaval but anticipated they would be in “good heart” as a result of the changes. Speaking on behalf of Interserve, MTC, Seetec and Sodexo, the businesses responsible for 17 of 21 community rehabilitation companies in England and Wales, Janine McDowell, head of justice services at Sodexo, said she was “disappointed” by the government’s decision. “As well as increasing cost and risk, this more fragmented system will cause confusion as offenders are passed between various organisations for different parts of their sentence,” she added. “We will now work closely with the government to minimise risks as the cases we manage are transferred to the National Probation Service.” The companies were not given advance details of the justice ministry’s announcement. Ian Lawrence, general secretary of Napo, the probation officers’ union, welcomed the plans and called Mr Grayling’s reforms an “untested social experiment”. “The government went ahead and implemented a model that had been criticised across the board for being unfit for purpose,” he said. “We are obviously disappointed that there is an intention for some probation work to remain in the private sector. Napo will continue to campaign to ensure that all of these services and our members who provide them are eventually transferred back into the public sector.” However Tom Sasse, a researcher at the Institute for Government, warned that the plans would not be an “instant fix”. “The National Probation Service will face many of the same pressures that providers felt — and the changes will involve a significant transfer of cases, which will need to be managed carefully,” he said. “The NPS may also require extra funding.”
davieG Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 In case you missed it... The Liberal Democrats have begun the process of choosing their next leader. The party's current leader, Sir Vince Cable, announced in March that he would step down after the local elections. But in a statement on Friday - following the PM's announcement of her departure date - Sir Vince confirmed he would be handing over the reins to his successor on 23 July.
Guest Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 14 hours ago, Izzy said: Maybe we should vote for PM the same way the yanks vote for president. I reckon many people's votes are based on the perceived leadership qualities of the candidate more so than their parties policies. I hope we never move towards a president idea. I think the "fact" that we vote for a party is bad enough but the idea that we are going to vote for 1 person, 1 celebrity to rule us is almost as abhorrent as having a king in charge to me. Personally my votes have always been about the individual at my local level, which is obviously informed partly by the party they stand for but I have voted Labour, Liberal, Lib Dem, Green, independant (possibly others over the years). I've never voted Conservative but my wife mostly voted conservative. It would be nice for a consensus cooperation to rule and make decisions but sadly we, humans, are too egoist for that. In short I have no problem with a party changing leader without consulting me, I think that's fair and reasonable, as long as they were voted into parliament by the people. 13 hours ago, Sampson said: To be fair, there is absolutely nothing in UK law regarding the existence of parties or their place in UK politics, which is why this happens. The issue is people only voting for parties and not independent candidates - largely because people are too lazy to read up on issues so parties naturally form as a part of this because they're an easy shorthand for people to tie their mast to - and people love getting into the sweeping narrative of feeling part of a political faction or movement. In an ideal world political factions and political parties wouldn't exist - and George Washington famously derided political factions and parties of at the birth of the modern democracy - due to it being the success of Populares faction who saw the downfall of democracy in Rome and Julius Caesar' converting it into a dictatorship. Ironically America of all places has become an entrenched duopoly of political power (as has the UK to be fair or England at least. Scotland is even worse and a virtual monopoly despite the fa the SNP barely get 1/3rd of Scottish votes just because of our hideously outdated political system of which the SNP are the biggest benefactors, even more than the Tories). So while I completely agree that this leadership campaign is a farce on democracy. Political parties, to be fair to them, don't really have any requirement or need to be democratic in and of themselves and can elect leaders by picking names out of a hat if they like. The issue is the existence of parties and the tribalism the create in the first place which is the farce on democracy - not the way those parties are specifically run. But no one votes independent so it's never going to change. People are lazy and stupid - I include myself in that. Sadly politicians are becoming more and more egoistic and self serving and have no problem lieing.
Guest Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 15 hours ago, Benguin said: Don’t worry there are lots of people like you as well! I don't disagree with you Benguin. You misunderstand me, I wasn't insulting whoever it was I quoted on a personal level, I was insulting man as a group (myself included). I am worse than most people and I know it. There are many different types of bad and I'm at least one of them.
urban.spaceman Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 1 hour ago, davieG said: In case you missed it... The Liberal Democrats have begun the process of choosing their next leader. The party's current leader, Sir Vince Cable, announced in March that he would step down after the local elections. But in a statement on Friday - following the PM's announcement of her departure date - Sir Vince confirmed he would be handing over the reins to his successor on 23 July. Perhaps they’ll go for a leader who doesn’t want to overturn the biggest democratic decision Britain’s ever made?
Dr The Singh Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 28 minutes ago, FIF said: I don't disagree with you Benguin. You misunderstand me, I wasn't insulting whoever it was I quoted on a personal level, I was insulting man as a group (myself included). I am worse than most people and I know it. There are many different types of bad and I'm at least one of them. Your a awful, bad person FiFFy, bad, bad, bad and smelly.
Guest MattP Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 Just now, MC Prussian said: When are the EU Election results to be expected? Tomorrow night they start counting. Starts at 10pm.
Dr The Singh Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 I'm putting my name in the hat to be the next PM, and also Lib Dem leader. I know you all will support me.
davieG Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 21 minutes ago, Dr The Singh said: I'm putting my name in the hat to be the next PM, and also Lib Dem leader. I know you all will support me. I always thought you had a split personality a Sikh Casanova / Dr Chubby Singh
Guest MattP Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 I imagine @Dr The Singh to be a bit like Chabuddy G from People just do Nothing.
Alf Bentley Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 2 hours ago, MattP said: Penalty shoot-out! Boris, Rees-Mogg, Farage Arlene Foster & Macron are the first 5 to take penalties for Leave. Cable, Caroline Lucas, Sturgeon, Starmer & Merkel to shoot for Remain (Umunna & Soubry forgot the match was on) Grieve is in goal for the Remainers (keeper's physique), Mark Francois for the Brexiteers ("he's fat, he's small, he bounces like a ball.....Sammy Lee Mark François!) Corbyn is still working out which subs bench he should be sitting on. May has been sent for an early bath..... Let's all get in the centre circle, heads in hands, then....
Alf Bentley Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 2 hours ago, davieG said: In case you missed it... The Liberal Democrats have begun the process of choosing their next leader. The party's current leader, Sir Vince Cable, announced in March that he would step down after the local elections. But in a statement on Friday - following the PM's announcement of her departure date - Sir Vince confirmed he would be handing over the reins to his successor on 23 July. As someone who mainly votes Labour but occasionally Lib Dem or Green, I'm disappointed to see that Layla Moran has said she's not standing. Been impressed with her when I've seen her interviewed. Does that mean Jo Swinson is a shoo-in for new leader, @LiberalFox? Doubly disappointing, if so, as she comes across as a jaded, cynical old party hack. She may be competent in various ways, but not the leader to choose for extraordinary times, it seems to me....
Milo Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 Labour surely need to ditch the 1970's militant Corbyn thing and look for a new saviour?
Nick Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 1 hour ago, MattP said: I imagine @Dr The Singh to be a bit like Chabuddy G from People just do Nothing. I can’t think of anybody that’s less like their internet persona in real life!
Alf Bentley Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 22 minutes ago, Milo said: Labour surely need to ditch the 1970's militant Corbyn thing and look for a new saviour? As an inactive Labour Party member, I'd certainly vote to get rid of him, given the opportunity. Haven't heard any young people wandering around chanting "Oh! Jeremy Corbyn!" for a long time now.....what a weird phenomenon that was! Some of the party's theoretical spending/nationalisation plans would be irresponsible if fully implemented (I don't think that would happen in practice). But they do have some good ideas that get little publicity: regional investment banks, national care service, more affordable housing, promotion of green business/employment etc. Corbyn's rigid, sloganising, old-fashioned way of expressing himself is part of the obstacle to that, I think (his frankly unattractive personality not helping, either). I always get the impression that most of Labour's good thinking comes from McDonnell, Starmer, Watson & others, anyway. Their policy offer isn't at all bad, but Corbyn's image & expression undermines it. Mind you, depending on what happens over Brexit policy, we could easily see the Tory Party and/or the Labour Party splitting in half over coming months....
Guest MattP Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 1 hour ago, Alf Bentley said: As someone who mainly votes Labour but occasionally Lib Dem or Green, I'm disappointed to see that Layla Moran has said she's not standing. Been impressed with her when I've seen her interviewed. Does that mean Jo Swinson is a shoo-in for new leader, @LiberalFox? Doubly disappointing, if so, as she comes across as a jaded, cynical old party hack. She may be competent in various ways, but not the leader to choose for extraordinary times, it seems to me.... I thought Moran was the front runner as well so astonished she's not running, however I've just found this that passed me by when it was reported.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/24/lib-dem-leadership-hopeful-layla-moran-admits-slapping-boyfriend/ Probably not something she wants to be questioned about on the TV.
Guest MattP Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 BTW imagine how awful it must be to date a bird who slaps you for losing a computer cable - I bet she's a right bunny boiler.
Dr The Singh Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 3 hours ago, MattP said: I imagine @Dr The Singh to be a bit like Chabuddy G from People just do Nothing. I just googled him , isn't he one of the guys you fancy?
Dr The Singh Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 3 hours ago, davieG said: I always thought you had a split personality a Sikh Casanova / Dr Chubby Singh I'm not so chubby these days DavieG, times have been hard, been starving and list weight.
Alf Bentley Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 25 minutes ago, MattP said: I thought Moran was the front runner as well so astonished she's not running, however I've just found this that passed me by when it was reported.... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/24/lib-dem-leadership-hopeful-layla-moran-admits-slapping-boyfriend/ Probably not something she wants to be questioned about on the TV. Yes, I saw that, too. Wouldn't have been great publicity - and not great conduct, obviously - but not something to disqualify someone from public office, unless it was something that happened multiple times (no suggestion of that). Was 6 years ago, too. We shouldn't be aiming to only be represented by saints or we'd lose out big time in terms of ability. After all, it seems likely we're about to get a PM who got sacked for fabricating quotes by his godfather, got sacked by his party leader for lying about his extra-marital affair & mistress's abortion, accused football fans of causing the deaths at Hillsborough without evidence - not to mention his many political lies & grandiose money-wasting vanity projects (water cannons, garden bridge etc.). 2 minutes ago, MattP said: BTW imagine how awful it must be to date a bird who slaps you for losing a computer cable - I bet she's a right bunny boiler. Meant humorously, I'm sure, but a little chauvinistic, no? In the tweet that you linked to, she says that, although the incident was triggered by a lost cable (only just noticed the irony.....Cable ), it came when their relationship was struggling. She says she had her ex's permission to say what she's said - if she really was a bunny boiler, I don't suppose he'd have agreed to that - or would have protested publicly if she'd explained it inaccurately?
Strokes Posted 25 May 2019 Posted 25 May 2019 13 minutes ago, MattP said: BTW imagine how awful it must be to date a bird who slaps you for losing a computer cable - I bet she's a right bunny boiler. It wasn’t really over the computer cable, he wore a bit of a revealing skirt to the conference and she got jealous over all the attention he was getting.
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