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[Guest MattP]

44 minutes ago, simFox said:

It's odd how people are reading into these results to fit their own narrative. A brexit party has just come out of nowhere and took 30% of the vote, smashing every other party. That's the real message.

Some of the analysis has been bordering on insane.

 

Alastair Campbell has spent the last year attacking Labour for being pro-Brexit and now he's adding them onto the "remain" ledger to say people don't want it

 

Will be interesting to see what the reaction is though with the Lib Dems doing so well in North London from the leadership - would they sacrifice the Northern MP's for themselves?

[Lionator]

I think the only way out of this is some sort of deal and putting it under the carpet. However, that's also the thing that pleases nobody either. It's a complete and utter mess. 

 

I do think that Farage will be happy with a deal, as long as we're out, he hasn't stated that it's no deal or bust for him and his party. 

[davieG]

From the BEEB

 

Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn has refused to explicitly back the idea of another referendum - despite increasing calls from within his party to do so.

Senior Labour figures including deputy leader Tom Watson and shadow foreign secretary Emily Thornberry have called for Labour to be clearer in its support for a fresh Brexit referendum.

Mr Corbyn said any deal with the EU should be put to a "public vote".

"We had a very clear policy all along," Mr Corbyn said. "We will call for a general election and a referendum to decide on the future."

When asked if he would back a second referendum, and campaign for the UK to remain in the EU, he said there should be "an agreement made" (with the EU) which would then be "put to a public vote".

Mr Corbyn also denied claims from Labour MP David Lammy that the party had "tried to ride two horses" and "fell flat on our faces".

Labour has tried to keep both Leave and Remain supporters on side by saying it accepts the result of the 2016 vote but also keeping the option of another referendum on the table if it is unable to force a general election or achieve a Brexit deal with the Tories it can endorse.

"What we've tried to do is bring people together, whether they voted Leave or Remain, they still face problems of a Tory government in disintegration," Mr Corbyn said.

The Labour leader said the party was "listening carefully" to its members and supporters - who would be consulted before the issue was brought back to the party's conference in September.

 

[bovril]

6 minutes ago, Lionator said:

I think the only way out of this is some sort of deal and putting it under the carpet. However, that's also the thing that pleases nobody either. It's a complete and utter mess. 

 

I do think that Farage will be happy with a deal, as long as we're out, he hasn't stated that it's no deal or bust for him and his party. 

I don't know what Farage wants to be honest. I've started to think the whole polarisation has become about much more than membership of the EU. 

[Bryn]

People in here calling for privatisation of the NHS, Christ on a bike. Be careful what you wish for. 

[Nickfosse]

The results seem clear to me. No one wants any shades of grey. They either want a no deal Brexit or remain. 

Why we don’t just have a referendum on that and have done with it either way to break the impasse. No one can moan then and the winners get what they really want. 

I’m not sure why Brexiteers wouldn’t want that either. I think they’ve got as much chance of winning as remain. 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, Bryn said:

People in here calling for privatisation of the NHS, Christ on a bike. Be careful what you wish for. 

incredible.

 

Can you imagine the uproar when people are actually asked to pay and refused because they can't afford it.

[Guest Kopfkino]

16 minutes ago, Bryn said:

People in here calling for privatisation of the NHS, Christ on a bike. Be careful what you wish for. 

 

Literally nobody called for the NHS to be privatised

[Guest Kopfkino]

4 minutes ago, Nickfosse said:

The results seem clear to me. No one wants any shades of grey. They either want a no deal Brexit or remain. 

Why we don’t just have a referendum on that and have done with it either way to break the impasse. No one can moan then and the winners get what they really want. 

I’m not sure why Brexiteers wouldn’t want that either. I think they’ve got as much chance of winning as remain. 

 

Tbf it is pretty much the only option now Brexiteers are blocking Brexit. But it won't actually finish the matter will it? Because No Deal isn't an actual end point and Leavers wouldn't just let it lie if they lost by anything that wasn't resounding as they would be entitled to given the last 3 years. 

[DANGEROUS TIGER]

Great to see the far right  do so well in France. It's growing across Europe, due mainly to high immigration numbers. This happening is  inevitable, and will continue to happen ,unless repatriation  programmes are introduced.

[Nickfosse]

Just now, Kopfkino said:

 

Tbf it is pretty much the only option now Brexiteers are blocking Brexit. But it won't actually finish the matter will it? Because No Deal isn't an actual end point and Leavers wouldn't just let it lie if they lost by anything that wasn't resounding as they would be entitled to given the last 3 years. 

That’s fair enough, I just cannot see another way out of this. 

[Guest MattP]

29 minutes ago, Bryn said:

People in here calling for privatisation of the NHS, Christ on a bike. Be careful what you wish for. 

Not a single person has called for that, read things properly.

[Nick]

2 minutes ago, DANGEROUS TIGER said:

Great to see the far right  do so well in France. It's growing across Europe, due mainly to high immigration numbers. This happening is  inevitable, and will continue to happen ,unless repatriation  programmes are introduced.

It's great to see the far right doing well and we need repatriation programmes? 

 

Yeah DT - send em all back eh?

 

What demographic would you repatriate from the UK given the option? 

 

Seriously, I'd love to know.

 

 

[Buce]

Corbyn backs referendum on Brexit deal after voter exodus

To break parliamentary deadlock, deal has to be put to public vote, Labour leader says

 

Jeremy Corbyn has pledged to support a second referendum on any Brexit deal after the Labour leadership came under overwhelming pressure to halt the exodus of its remain voters who backed pro-EU parties at the European elections.

The Labour leader said he was “listening very carefully” to both sides of the debate after the party fell behind the Liberal Democrats and also lost ground to the Greens.

Labour’s preference would be a general election but any Brexit deal “has to be put to a public vote”, he said. Several Labour sources noted this was a shift from his previous position that a second referendum was being kept as an option on the table to stop a damaging Tory Brexit.

 

He later wrote to MPs: “It is clear that the deadlock in parliament can now only be broken by the issue going back to the people through a general election or a public vote. We are ready to support a public vote on any deal.”

Corbyn’s statement moves the party closer to backing a people’s vote but does not go quite far enough to satisfy the demands of some senior Labour figures, who want full backing for a second referendum to be held without delay – and a commitment that the party will campaign on the remain side.

John McDonnell, the shadow chancellor, was among the Corbyn allies who hardened their position, saying on Monday that a second referendum was inevitable because Tory MPs would not back an election. Asked whether it was time to support a second referendum in any circumstances, McDonnell said: “I think it is, yes.”

He added: “Our only option now is to go back to the people in a referendum and that is the position we’re in now.”

Emily Thornberry, the shadow foreign secretary, Diane Abbott, the shadow home secretary, Shami Chakrabarti, the shadow attorney general, and Keir Starmer, the shadow Brexit secretary, also called for a clearer position in favour of a people’s vote on Brexit in light of the European election results.

Starmer said a second referendum was the “only way to break the Brexit impasse” with a “credible leave option and remain”, while Thornberry said: “I fear we will have no deal and we must be clear it will be a disaster for the country so we must have a second referendum.”

 

In the European elections, Labour was left with just 14.6% of the vote share, and halved its MEPs to 10. Overall, it fell into third place behind the Brexit party and Liberal Democrats, dropping to fifth position with no MEPs in Scotland and coming behind Plaid Cymru in Wales for the first time in a national poll. Mark Drakeford, the Welsh Labour leader and first minister, said the party in Wales now wanted a second referendum and would back a remain vote.

Pressure on Corbyn also came from Tom Watson, the deputy leader, who has given his backing to grassroots groups demanding a ballot of all members or a special conference to formally shift the position, as he believes the party cannot wait until its autumn conference to fully support a second referendum. This would have to be granted by the national executive committee (NEC).

A People’s Vote source said the idea of a ballot of members ought to focus the leadership’s attention, saying: “That threat is there and Jeremy could avoid the kind of summer-long party split that would end up in humiliation – if he moves fast now.”

Paul Mason, the Corbyn-supporting journalist, also backed a Left 2030 petition for a ballot of members and in a Guardian article called for “the officials who designed this fiasco, and ignored all evidence that it would lead to disaster, [to] be removed from positions of influence”.

Labour insiders said Corbyn was keen to avoid being forced into a new position by a damaging public row caused by a members’ ballot but they described the leader as still somewhat torn over the issue as many of his closest advisers and shadow cabinet ministers are in favour of respecting the referendum result.

On the calls to remove Corbyn’s advisers, one source close to the Labour leadership said: “There is absolutely no way they’ll be successful. And they are going for the wrong people. Jeremy’s view is influenced more by the shadow cabinet – people like Jon Trickett, Dan Carden. It is majority leavers.”

A number of Labour MPs who represent leave constituencies are also anxious about backing a second referendum, with Gloria De Piero urging colleagues not to let a second referendum “wreck” the Labour party. She warned a move to such a policy of overriding the 2016 result “would be an effective ending of Labour’s historic coalition of working-class, middle-class, city and non-city voters.”

Len McCluskey, the Unite general secretary, went so far as to accuse some of those calling for a second referendum of trying to whip up a coup against the leadership. “Labour has been the only party that has sought to unite the nation on Brexit and this is an honourable objective that must not be abandoned,” he said.

In a veiled dig at Watson, his old adversary, McCluskey said: “Faced now with the serious prospect of a no-deal Tory prime minister, Labour must stay united and show the country that it is ready to lead. There are some rushing to advance other agendas but are doing so to undermine Jeremy Corbyn. They will be seen for what they are and never forgiven by the members.”

One shadow minister said the leadership was “racked by paranoia about plots” but the truth was that the membership actually wanted to change the policy rather than the leader.

“There is a war going on,” the shadow minister said. “There are people around Jeremy doing everything possible to stop the policy going to a full second referendum. It is a power struggle for the Labour party. Do Len McCluskey, Karie Murphy, Andrew Murray, and Seumas Milne run the Labour party? Or is it the wider Corbyn political project?”

Some on the left of the party openly stressed their calls for a second referendum were nothing to do with trying to remove Corbyn as leader. Manuel Cortes, general secretary of the Transport Salaried Staffs’ Association (TSSA) union, said: “I supported Jeremy Corbyn for the leadership of our party whilst others hedged their bets. Nonsense to suggest that having a policy which chimes with our members is some sort of coup – time to support our brilliant party activists on Brexit.”

 

[Guest MattP]

16 minutes ago, Nickfosse said:

The results seem clear to me. No one wants any shades of grey. They either want a no deal Brexit or remain. 

Why we don’t just have a referendum on that and have done with it either way to break the impasse. No one can moan then and the winners get what they really want. 

I’m not sure why Brexiteers wouldn’t want that either. I think they’ve got as much chance of winning as remain. 

Why would any leave voter trust the Remain side to accept the result of a second referendum?

 

They'll just called it illegitimate again and call for a third.

[Milo]

Wife just knocked this little ditty up - its in 2/4 time if anyone wants to sing along... 

[Buce]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Why would any leave voter trust the Remain side to accept the result of a second referendum?

 

They'll just called it illegitimate again and call for a third.

 

Presumably, there is some way it can be legislated for so that it is binding?

[Nickfosse]

Just now, MattP said:

Why would any leave voter trust the Remain side to accept the result of a second referendum?

 

They'll just called it illegitimate again and call for a third.

No, I think with a defined no deal Brexit that would be the end of it. The problem was that Leave was never defined. We were told that doing a deal with the EU could be done over a cup of tea and no compromise required. 

The last three years have taught us that was bollocks, not just pesky remainers who can’t take a defeat. 

[Nick]

1 minute ago, Milo said:

Wife just knocked this little ditty up - its in 2/4 time if anyone wants to sing along... 

 

 

Bank Holidays at your gaff are wild Milo.

[Guest MattP]

Just now, Buce said:

Presumably, there is some way it can be legislated for so that it is binding?

Very much doubt it - how can you bind any government to do something? Even if they did they can just collapse it.

[Milo]

Just now, Swan Lesta said:

 

 

Bank Holidays at your gaff are wild Milo.

Packed full of political satire and scrabble...living the dream 

[Heathrow fox]

1 hour ago, MattP said:

Some of the analysis has been bordering on insane.

 

Alastair Campbell has spent the last year attacking Labour for being pro-Brexit and now he's adding them onto the "remain" ledger to say people don't want it

 

Will be interesting to see what the reaction is though with the Lib Dems doing so well in North London from the leadership - would they sacrifice the Northern MP's for themselves?

Well as they are now only Labour by name the answer to that is yes isn’t it?

[Guest MattP]

2 minutes ago, Nickfosse said:

No, I think with a defined no deal Brexit that would be the end of it.

Parliament says No Deal can't happen and it would be irresponsible - so they can't give us a referendum with that on the ballot paper can they?

[Nickfosse]

1 minute ago, MattP said:

Very much doubt it - how can you bind any government to do something? Even if they did they can just collapse it.

Everyone I’ve heard call for a second referendum have said that would be the end of it. Heseltine immediately springs to mind. 

I actually think my idea is your best chance of getting the kind of Brexit you have passionately argued for Matt. 

[Nickfosse]

4 minutes ago, MattP said:

Parliament says No Deal can't happen and it would be irresponsible - so they can't give us a referendum with that on the ballot paper can they?

My point was with regards to “listening to what the people are saying”. If they’re serious about that I think it’s between a no deal Brexit and Remain. Barely anyone voted for compromise.