Guest SO1 Posted 1 May 2019 Posted 1 May 2019 3 hours ago, TheLittleBigMan said: I just want the financial fair play rules to work. It's really embarrassing. Crapification and corruption. Some things never change.
Wymsey Posted 1 May 2019 Posted 1 May 2019 VAR will be blamed next against teams who are innocent. Still yet to be convinced by the technology.
Tom12345 Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 20 hours ago, Cujek said: Came across this. Sorry if posted elseware but couldn't find it.. It seems this confirms what we all know, the top 6 must never be de throned https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/26/sports/premier-league-liverpool-manchester-city.html?rref=collection%2Fsectioncollection%2Fsoccer&action=click&contentCollection=soccer®ion=stream&module=stream_unit&version=latest&contentPlacement=4&pgtype=sectionfront I guess we should be grestful the ruling elite allowed us to win the league to re spark interest in the Premier league, never again will it happen... I think this is just sensational journalism and I think it misses the point. The problem is not having the Big Six. 20 years ago, it was the Big Three (Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool). Then it became Big Four when Chelsea turned into Chelski. Then Big Five with Man City being acquired by Middle East riches. Then might as well add the Spurs to make it the Big Six. Once you make it, of course you want to consolidate and prevent others from joining. Very normal. Every year, some ambitious owner wants to give it a go, but it is a difficult game and many failed - just ask Fulham: despite spending millions, staying in the EPL is not easy in itself let alone joining the Big Six. But the point is, over the course of even the last 20 years, that has changed. The real problem is more fundamental. Why are we being dictated so much by financial muscles of the owners (many are foreign) which have so little to do with history, fan base, homegrown football talents and infrastructure, how well clubs are run, etc. Unlike Man Utd, Arsenal and Liverpool (maybe even the Spurs), if the Middle Eastern owners of Man C sell out next year, that could well be the end of Man C dominance. We need a better system where the riches of the owners have less to do with success. The Americans are worst when it comes to fair play (door to competition is actually shut), but I think there are a few things we can borrow from their professional leagues (like a draft system; salary caps; penalty tax; etc). They are rules, yes, which are actually designed to protect the profits of the clubs/teams (another topic), but they could be useful in our context.
sylofox Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 News paper prints what we all knew. Most of us said in 2016 the big six would spend big so this could not happen again. But we proved its not just about money. Manure have spent huge and gone backwards. Why would the big six want the club infiltrating. If we end up joining it we would not want it to increase.
grobyfox1990 Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 The only way the big 6 would be broken is in the same vein the previous big 3, then 4, were broken. Rich and powerful owner comes in and demands a seat at the table. If a Saudi owner bought Bournemouth, the big 6 would soon be 7, as his wealth and political influence would demand such. On another point, how did Spurs break into the 'big' category? They haven't got the financial resources to compete with the others and haven't won anything! That is the conspiracy here! The fact the media have self-determined Spurs are a big club!
sylofox Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 34 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: The only way the big 6 would be broken is in the same vein the previous big 3, then 4, were broken. Rich and powerful owner comes in and demands a seat at the table. If a Saudi owner bought Bournemouth, the big 6 would soon be 7, as his wealth and political influence would demand such. On another point, how did Spurs break into the 'big' category? They haven't got the financial resources to compete with the others and haven't won anything! That is the conspiracy here! The fact the media have self-determined Spurs are a big club! Compared to the spending of the others arsenal have nothing. Spuds have joined the six because of consistent top six finishes. If we do five of the next six seasons in the top six it will then be called the top seven.
Captain... Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 14 minutes ago, grobyfox1990 said: The only way the big 6 would be broken is in the same vein the previous big 3, then 4, were broken. Rich and powerful owner comes in and demands a seat at the table. If a Saudi owner bought Bournemouth, the big 6 would soon be 7, as his wealth and political influence would demand such. On another point, how did Spurs break into the 'big' category? They haven't got the financial resources to compete with the others and haven't won anything! That is the conspiracy here! The fact the media have self-determined Spurs are a big club! Very good point, it is really a big 5 with spurs consistently breaking into it. Re-branding spurs as a big club and creating a big-6 is doing Spurs a massive disservice and setting them up for a fall. They have achieved this so far on the back of a phenomenal academy player some good young prospects and buying non-superstar players. With Eriksen seemingly on his way and other players being highly sought after if Kane goes it will be the end of their big-6 status. As for a conspiracy? Nah it was just an understandable reaction to our win. The title was there to be won by any team that could put a consistent run together. Arsenal finished 2nd on 71 points. Liverpool finished 8th on 60 and Chelsea 10th with 50. The big 6 has only really been in existence since our title before that Liverpool and Spurs we’re best of the rest material. It does feel like a triumph of marketing over ability so many teams are now sucked into the myth of the big 6 that they change the way they play. When you go after the big teams you risk getting thrashed but you have a much better chance of winning the game.
Matt_Lcfc Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 22 hours ago, yorkie1999 said: But we do ok against the big sides. You’ve really missed his point
jayfox26 Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 Im not sure their is a conspiracy as such but the big 6 do try to keep it the big 6 by signing players from clubs that potentially threaten them, even if they are not really needed (Drinkwater and to a lesser extent Mahrez). FFP only seems to stop the teams outside the big 6 from threatening them as well. The big 6 seem to be able to spend at will without selling (except spurs) whilst we know we are likely to have to sell Maguire to fund new signings. Of course players handing in transfer requests like Mahrez and DD doesn't help us but even though there are some rich clubs now like us, Wolves and Everton, ultimately we are powerless in keeping all our players long term. If we still had Kante and Mahrez on top of our new signings like Maddison, Ricardo and Tielemans, we'd definitely be top 6, possibly even 3rd this season. But the big 6 make sure we don't keep our gems for long!
grobyfox1990 Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 1 hour ago, sylofox said: Compared to the spending of the others arsenal have nothing. Spuds have joined the six because of consistent top six finishes. If we do five of the next six seasons in the top six it will then be called the top seven. I was always under the impression Arsenal's lack of spending was for the owners to draw out profits to spend on their Texan empire building project. I remember looking at their accounts a while back and they had c.£200m cash on balance sheet! Incredible. Debt servicing costs were something meagre a year and 'consultancy fees' - profit extraction for the owners were huge, many millions per year. It seemed as if if Arsenal really wanted to spend and compete they could. Obviously this may have changed by now, and indeed they have spent big money on Lacazette and Aubameyang
yorkie1999 Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 2 hours ago, Matt_Lcfc said: You’ve really missed his point Being? That there is a conspiracy to keep teams like us down by piling on "difficult" fixtures at crucial times. Some how i don't think man city are looking forward to playing us next week to almost secure a title.
Dan Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 On 01/05/2019 at 12:36, urban.spaceman said: Did anyone else notice the season after we won the league we were given extremely tough fixtures against mostly the top 6 either side of our Champions League matches? All mostly moved for TV too. Liverpool away, Man Utd away, Chelsea away, Spurs away... All before our first 4 Champions League group matches. The 6th was followed by Man City at home. Our R16 first leg was followed by Liverpool at home. The Everton away match before Atletico was moved to a Sunday afternoon for TV for no good reason. And then the following season, we got 4 of the top 6 in our opening 6 games. And then we had the toughest festive period too, with the least amount of time between fixtures. This season our last 3 games are Arsenal, Man City and Chelsea. That’s it you’re into these conspiracy theory things... I did notice some quite weird patterns like this. Not making excuses at all as I don't think that's what we should be about (and that should be something that sets us apart from your Arsenals and Tottenhams) but given the comments made when we made the CL about how executives within the game 'need' Manchester United in there, and have taken even further measures to ensure the top sides have the best possible route to qualification, then I can't get away from a bit of cynicism about the whole thing. You wouldn't rule it out.
KingsX Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 On 01/05/2019 at 08:56, Saxondale said: I hate the phrase 'big six', especially as it includes Tottenham, who haven't won the top flight since 1961 and whose average league position over the past 20 years is 7th . They seem to have just tagged along with the genuine football superpowers. 4 hours ago, grobyfox1990 said: The only way the big 6 would be broken is in the same vein the previous big 3, then 4, were broken. Rich and powerful owner comes in and demands a seat at the table. If a Saudi owner bought Bournemouth, the big 6 would soon be 7, as his wealth and political influence would demand such. On another point, how did Spurs break into the 'big' category? They haven't got the financial resources to compete with the others and haven't won anything! That is the conspiracy here! The fact the media have self-determined Spurs are a big club! I can’t tell anyone who they should subjectively consider a “big club”. But I can show you who the “genuine football superpowers” are with a single graph. Tradition is not useful for determining which clubs will be dominant going forward. Sustained total revenues now count more than all else including titles, coaching and stadium size. As for Spurs, I figured the arrivistes would fall away without securing an expansion to a “Big Six”, but now this looks unlikely. Besides finishing top six for a decade now, their latest financial results were scary. Revenues grown from ₤147M to 380M in five years, soon to be amplified by the Toilet Bowl. They have fully caught up to the top group, which is six clubs, all with more than twice the turnover as the “best of the rest”. That’s too large and plush a cushion for one of them to quickly fall away, or a new club to become a seventh. That would take years of horrible -- or superb -- management. The rules have been rewritten and the gates are being closed. If Spurs can somehow keep coining it in the CL despite a lean, relatively underpaid squad, they’re in for good. Their recent ₤139M profit was the all-time record. That absurd stadium debt will be manageable. Leeds, Villa, Celtic, Marseille supporters all swear up and down theirs are big clubs. Maybe you agree. But at the end of the day we can buy their best players. And the big six can buy ours.
PaulW Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get me.
urban fox Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 1 hour ago, KingsX said: I can’t tell anyone who they should subjectively consider a “big club”. But I can show you who the “genuine football superpowers” are with a single graph. Tradition is not useful for determining which clubs will be dominant going forward. Sustained total revenues now count more than all else including titles, coaching and stadium size. As for Spurs, I figured the arrivistes would fall away without securing an expansion to a “Big Six”, but now this looks unlikely. Besides finishing top six for a decade now, their latest financial results were scary. Revenues grown from ₤147M to 380M in five years, soon to be amplified by the Toilet Bowl. They have fully caught up to the top group, which is six clubs, all with more than twice the turnover as the “best of the rest”. That’s too large and plush a cushion for one of them to quickly fall away, or a new club to become a seventh. That would take years of horrible -- or superb -- management. The rules have been rewritten and the gates are being closed. If Spurs can somehow keep coining it in the CL despite a lean, relatively underpaid squad, they’re in for good. Their recent ₤139M profit was the all-time record. That absurd stadium debt will be manageable. Leeds, Villa, Celtic, Marseille supporters all swear up and down theirs are big clubs. Maybe you agree. But at the end of the day we can buy their best players. And the big six can buy ours. So unsurprisingly with one or two minor differences what we are looking at here is practically the PL table. Top six, unchanging, the middle order contenders and the perennial strugglers/relegation fodder in pretty much the order of their income. The biggest barrier to breaking into the top six is the cash generated from European TV rights (our own CL run netted us something in the order of £90M). It is obvious why theses clubs are so desperate to keep it to themselves. A couple of years or so outside of the UEFA money machine and they would soon start to slide down the table when they can no longer pay the mega bucks wages. Transfer fees are pretty irrelevant as that can be funded by loan arrangements, it is the wage bill mainly that FFP rules are concerned with, and you need the TV money to fund that.
urban.spaceman Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 2 hours ago, urban fox said: So unsurprisingly with one or two minor differences what we are looking at here is practically the PL table. Top six, unchanging, the middle order contenders and the perennial strugglers/relegation fodder in pretty much the order of their income. The biggest barrier to breaking into the top six is the cash generated from European TV rights (our own CL run netted us something in the order of £90M). It is obvious why theses clubs are so desperate to keep it to themselves. A couple of years or so outside of the UEFA money machine and they would soon start to slide down the table when they can no longer pay the mega bucks wages. Transfer fees are pretty irrelevant as that can be funded by loan arrangements, it is the wage bill mainly that FFP rules are concerned with, and you need the TV money to fund that. THIS is the only table you need:
fuchsntf Posted 2 May 2019 Posted 2 May 2019 My bosses at work in all my jobs,and I was considered an expert,!! over 2 proffession got 5 x, 10 x even 20 times more than I. Then have the fking cheek,to take not one but 2-4 , golden-handshakes,after failing, abusing their position and cocking up.. Poor old joe bloggs gets a kicko up thebackside,a snidey coded report on their CV.. Difference..1 becomes a politician,and dips further into the gravey....Falls over backwards to get on the Brexit train The other has no chance,becomes either a Rogue trader,a Benifit cheat,even a Delboy.....or turns his life around and becomes an Entrepreneur... Then you get dickheads like me...work through the masses around the world,concientiously,proudly...!! happy for some gratitude of a few weeks holidays,the bonuses, then telling us we are irreplaceable...... W H Y for fook said W H Y.!! What were those 50years all about...Now after all that we can only worry about conspiracy theories in the mafia-ran organised cartel called profi-football. Like the morans we are,we go out every week and throw money at it....not listening once,!! to the wise words of our Mama...innit.!..
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.